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Post by gruggier on Aug 13, 2017 18:48:19 GMT
There are two different questions: Was the steel imported from Asia? I've read that the absence of certain alloys speak against this. Is there really no slag (= crucible steel) or is there some slag but not visible because of very good refining (bloomery steel). The letter seems possible, the Uni Kiel article shows the example of an axe. Unfortunately one has to destroy all swords to clear this up with research. Some parts of bloomery steel can have high carbon, but refining the steel burns carbon. The high to late medieval bloomeries were much bigger and the result was bigger blooms with less slag and better steel over all. But for the 9th cent. that's not known. Do you think the same goes for the migration period swords also???
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Post by gruggier on Aug 13, 2017 15:13:59 GMT
The big problem really is that we have too few tested examples. Williams as far as I know tested only Ulfberhts with various spellings. About why were "crucible" ulfberhts high carbon, we can't know, but smiths of the time often didn't understand the processes they did very well. Many pattern welded swords have soft iron edges welded around pattern welded core. Not steel edges as we would say it's logical. They understood some processes, but not all and some only partially. Logic is not a very good tool to deal with ancient smiths work. I know of at least one sword (forgot where it was found, but it was somewhere in Germany I think) that would have been interpreted as a crucible steel sword if not for one element in it found only in ore from that area in Germany. I'm not saying +VLFBERH+T smiths didn't use asian crucible steel, but Williams is pushing that theory with too few evidence. And the whole populistic show bulit around that theory makes me cautious. Especially the fact that both Williams and the TV show ignore the fact that first Ulfberhts with +VLFBERHT+ inlay were obviously original Ulfberhts as they are typologically the oldest. Such little info in this particular part of time and history. Sucks.....
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Post by gruggier on Aug 12, 2017 12:52:10 GMT
Thank you for all the great info good Sir!
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Post by gruggier on Aug 12, 2017 11:53:32 GMT
I wonder if any of the early swords with the spike hilt were made of crucible steel. I am talking about the type X, Xa, XI similar to the Albion Reeve and the Gaddhjalt, both types possibly used by the 9th(maybe) and 10th century Norse, Anglo Saxon, etc...
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Post by gruggier on Aug 11, 2017 16:35:24 GMT
Afaik: Viking swords are germanic swords which developed from Roman spathae and later migration period swords. Ulfberhts probably were made in Rheinland in the Frankish kingdom or empire this time. It may have been forbidden to export them, but many things were then and are now forbidden. It's not sure whether they are/were made of crucible steel (the real ones) or by very good refining like the katana. The crucible steel technique could be transferred from arabia or arabic spain. Not all real ulfberhts are monosteel, some are pattern welded. Some are made from very good monosteel but definetly not crucible steel. In the christian Frankish empire swords usually weren't given into a grave, so you usually find them in pagan viking graves. If northmen would have made the blades, they would have inscripted runes. Most probably they bought or raided the blades and hilted them. The Nova documentary is fun, but only proved that a modern smith can make a crucible steel sword with old techniques. Newer research showed that parts of ulfberht sword hilts were made of lead, which could be located in Germany with its chemical fingerprint. But there still are many open questions. A few weeks ago I visited the Germanisches Nationalmuseum in Nürnberg and saw two real Ulfberhts, my nose was 4" away from them, I think there are still some nose-printings on the glas from me. The blades are very thin, but unfortunately very corroded too. Thats amazing you had the opportunity to see the real swords up close!!!!!!!!!! Any pics you could share? Informative info thanks.... The documentary did leave me with many questions too... Some more info: www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-ancient-technology/step-closer-mysterious-origin-viking-sword-ulfberht-002455
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Post by gruggier on Aug 11, 2017 16:00:20 GMT
Nova's "Secrets of the Viking Sword" also go into length here. It is speculated that the Norse obtained the tornado furnace technology from the Middle East (Damascus anyone?) and brought the technique home and that resulted in the Uhlfbert. I dunno... Link to documentary is here: Bonus: Richard Furrer makes one using techniques of the time period I have seen this documentary. Its pretty good....
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Post by gruggier on Aug 11, 2017 15:59:23 GMT
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Post by gruggier on Aug 11, 2017 15:20:47 GMT
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Post by gruggier on Aug 11, 2017 15:09:15 GMT
Hey all,
Wanted to start a discussion about this topic. I love "Viking Swords" I know there is a lot of history we know about the "Viking Sword". And know there is a lot of history we still don't know. I am definitely not an expert in this area but I find it so interesting. Hence the thread.
So the "viking" sword design is very much Frankish, and the Norse adopted the sword (i think). Did the Norse and their smiths use the crucible steel too? Did the Norse copy the Franks? I think and I have read that the Franks created some of the best swords during the 8th and 9th centuries using crucible steel and if I am not mistaken was illegal at the time for the Franks and the smiths to sell these blades. Did the Norse smiths and the Norsemen who obviously were trading all over EU, Middle East etc during that time use crucible steel also? I wonder the history of that.
I was watching the "+VLFBERH+T" documentary and its so cool how we know how crucible steel was made and then forged into a weapon and I am sure different type of weapons.
Lots of controversy too about what are real "+VLFBERH+T" and fakes of that time that have been found in rivers, graves, etc. So much info on google but also a lot of arguments.
Looking forward to some good info if you all find the time to respond. Thanks and take care....
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Post by gruggier on Aug 9, 2017 17:54:40 GMT
No offence to anyone here but I would never pay that kind of money for a Deepeeka.
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Post by gruggier on Aug 8, 2017 21:22:10 GMT
You seem to have forgotten that Patrick Barta exists and he can do much, much more for the same price. And also is hotter Yeah - but Barta has the wait list from Hell. I have been on his waiting list since June 2012. Checked in with him a couple years ago and he projected another year but it has been over 2-years since that contact. At this point don't really care now if my sword ever gets made. Holy crap that is insane!!!! Did you pay or leave a deposit?
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Post by gruggier on Aug 4, 2017 13:12:54 GMT
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Post by gruggier on Jan 9, 2017 17:40:10 GMT
Love the axe. I could do with out the fancy art work. Sharpen that bad boy up man and then give us another review!
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Post by gruggier on Jan 8, 2017 1:11:54 GMT
YIKES, what have I created here ? Here's another video to help anyone who is not sure which one they think is better. i love it great debate!
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Post by gruggier on Jan 7, 2017 1:09:19 GMT
Awesome discussion...
I am sure that both were formidable weapons of that time, Obviously there is no documentation of training etc... But humans adapt. And i am pretty sure fighters back then perfected the art of the axe, sword, and shield. If only they documented the techniques...
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Post by gruggier on Jan 5, 2017 18:49:59 GMT
Glad you said that I am trying to deal my way into one right now that SpartanD63 has up for sale. Wish me luck and thanks for your response. No problem and good luck man!
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Post by gruggier on Jan 1, 2017 13:59:24 GMT
This is the video
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Post by gruggier on Jan 1, 2017 13:46:34 GMT
This is all very interesting. Lots to learn here but I have a question. Do you all think that when the vikings or people of that era who went to battle, that they actually practiced these grips? I mean think about it. Heat of battle, fog of war. You got axes poking, swinging and flying around. You got arrows flying. You got warriors trying to break a shield wall possibly from a charge. Spears being thrusted...... You get the idea. I think about myself in a battle and I can easily see these grip types going out the window. Unless like all martial arts, with constant practice its just second nature???
Also most viking era swords from what I read came from a Frankish/Germanic background and I remember seeing a you tube video from one instructor who is well known teacher of viking sword fighting, (Roland Warzecha) discussing how Frankish swords handles were a bit longer. I need to find the video and when I so I will post link.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
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Post by gruggier on Jan 1, 2017 13:26:24 GMT
With all the pros and cons what is your favorite out of this group? Squire Gotland. It is the best handling. Happy New Year everyone.
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Post by gruggier on Nov 19, 2016 17:08:31 GMT
Keep in mind with the Valiant you're getting a really nice custom scabbard which almost makes the sword free. No scabbard with the Albions, but if you don't want or need the scabbard then get the Albion. If you regrip the Squire Line Albion you'll have a really nice sword. Understood.
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