Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 6, 2008 23:04:35 GMT
After some very annoying setbacks, I am finally able to bring you a how to video on axe throwing. First off I had to split the video into 2 parts. Pt2 picks up right where pt 1 leaves off. Also, there are a couple of things that got lost in the edit. #1 Dont throw to hard #2 Always keep your thumb down, wrapped around the handle. I'll explain why in my next video (if there is one #3 Blade sharpness doesn't really affect your throw. #4 When in doubt, just ask
Alright, that about covers it. If this idea takes off and you guys want to learn more, I thought I would do the next one on throwing an axe at different paces, throwing an axe backwards, and throwing multiple axes at once. So, with no more delay, here are parts 1 and 2 of my axe throwing basics.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 0:49:40 GMT
Thanx, Avery. Glad you were finally able to get this done. Very informative and useful. Feel free to post more!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 8:30:16 GMT
Thanks for the vid - very professional!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 14:44:24 GMT
Excellent pair of videos Avery. If I ever have the hankering to through an axe I will take your advice to heart. Thanks.
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Post by wiwingti on Oct 7, 2008 17:20:42 GMT
good vid man ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 0:46:23 GMT
awesome video man i would love to see more! thank you.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 8, 2008 1:01:51 GMT
By the way, you mentioned sharpened the throwing axes... would you be willing to make a video on how to sharpen axe blades? I would very much appreciate that. I am barely able to put a really good edge on my axe and could use some instruction in order to improve. If one person asks for it, I will do it. I'll need to know what kind of axes you have, pics will help alot I think I'll do a series of these as long as people respond. If you cant do pics, just give me an idea of what kind of bevel you have, and I will do my best to help. I would also like to thank everyone else for showing interest. Like I said, any questions, just ask ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 4:05:42 GMT
Karma +1 absilits. Your our new throwing trainer I throw axes in the SCA myself. Do you throw in any particular organization? You really did a great job of spelling out technique. I learned a few things. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 12:15:26 GMT
Blade sharpness should never affect your ability to throw or to stick a throw. The only criticism I have Abs is that you lean over your centre of balance, make sure you keep your back straight and don't lean over your centre of balance. Nice job mate, thanks for a really good beginners tutorial
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Oct 8, 2008 14:47:17 GMT
excellent videos absilits, very cool. I have some questions: in my historical research I heard of a throwing ax the Francs used that was a very fearsome weapon. one thing they would do with it was to throw at the ground so it would bounce up under sheilds and act unpredictably. have you ever heard of this? have you ever tried a throw like that? what is your point of view on this? thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 15:13:47 GMT
Bouncing axes? That's an interesting feat. I throw axes too but I've never considered throwing an axe and making it bounce on purpose. Now I can say that I've made axes bounce on several occasions but not on purpose and the bounce was followed by a flop or something equally unspectacular. If that was really done historically I'd be interested in learning how to do so too. Might be a nice little jaw dropper to bounce an axe off the ground and have it stick into a target.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 15:30:56 GMT
I think the point he was trying to make is that if you clip the target wrong, the axe can go basically anywhere. Not that he would purposely bounce the axe off the ground and still hit the target. Same goes for knife throwing...when throwing a knife at pretty much any target some of the greatest danger is to yourself lol. They can come back quickly when they have a mind to.
Cris
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 16:06:44 GMT
It isn't so much bouncing the axe as skimming it like a stone, I've seen it done but I have to say that I can't imagine it being used by the francs as a useable battlefield tactic. Then again you wouldn't think that an archer could be good enough to put 6 arrows in the air at once but they used to do that to. Throwing knives and kunai and shuriken is a much harder technique to master than axe throwing in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 1:06:17 GMT
Thank you for taking the time to make such a great instructional video! Very clear, and well done. +1 Debbie
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Oct 9, 2008 2:52:58 GMT
It isn't so much bouncing the axe as skimming it like a stone, I've seen it done but I have to say that I can't imagine it being used by the francs as a useable battlefield tactic. Then again you wouldn't think that an archer could be good enough to put 6 arrows in the air at once but they used to do that to. Throwing knives and kunai and shuriken is a much harder technique to master than axe throwing in my opinion. I recall reading about it after seeing it in a documentary and they certainly were not skimming it like a stone, they threw it purposfull at the ground so that it would hit on the head end of the shaft and bounce and tumble. I'm sure they skimmed them sometimes too but that was not what I was thinking of when I asked.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 4:24:01 GMT
Bloodwraith,
Shuriken, knives and the occasional kunai have left my hand with appropriate force and trajectory to stick into unlucky pieces of wood that managed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do not believe that throwing any of those items is any harder to accomplish than an axe. You simply have to have an understanding of the speed at which each item rotates. A good control of the amount of force you put behind the thrown item as well as knowledge of what that item will do as it travels to the target will allow you to throw just about pointy object and make it stick.
Now on the other hand if you're talking about tactical use of knives, shuriken, kunai etc as throwing weapons that is a very hard skill to master. For one thing these items are for the most part small and light so to make throwing them an effective tactic one must have amazing aim. The throat and eyes would be the most obvious targets. Other targets are the groin and surrounding thigh areas (arteries), the underarm and mouth (timing - for when it opens). None of these targets are easy to hit on a moving opponent. If you throw any of the above at the chest or center of mass of a human you will most likely just piss them off whether they strike as intended or not (unless its a bowie knife or machete - in which case you might severe something and that might actually be incapacitating). Since my aim is not anywhere good enough to strike at very small moving targets I will maintain my opinion that such items are not practical for throwing as weapons. The only item that I'd throw as a weapon is an axe. Hatchet, axe, hammer, sledge etc. These items are heavier than your average shuriken/knife/kunai and as such are more effective with pure physics. Heave a 3lb axe at a human being with full force and whether it sticks or not, if it hits them they're going down. Same with a sledgehammer. Even just a mundane camp hatchet would do quite a bit more damage to a human being than the average shuriken/knife etc.
Now once again, I'd like to figure out how to bounce an axe off the ground and make it stick to a target... Hmm maybe I'll have to invest in some more cheat camp hatchets. They should be going on sale right about now as camping season is coming to a close.
-Sam
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 9, 2008 4:57:56 GMT
Excellent video. I've always wondered how axe throwing worked.
Have to say, my favorite part of it all was "I'm going to try to miss on purpose..." *bulls-eye*
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 5:24:50 GMT
Then again you wouldn't think that an archer could be good enough to put 6 arrows in the air at once but they used to do that to. Sounds like an impressive feat! What kind of flight time are we talking about here? I'm trying to figure out the rate of loosing necessary to accomplish this. Edit: So I decided to try and run some numbers in a very basic estimation. The parabolic trajectory means I will be underestimating the flight time in this crude estimation, I have updated more accurate information below. Not being knowledgeable in the area I googled some info. A search yielded a feet per second of about 150 to 170 for a longbow. I will use 150 to give it the advantage in flight time. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow Notes the range of a longbow might be 600 feet (200 yards) and a Mary Rose replica (a big 'un) might be 1080 feet (360 yards). This gives us 4 seconds flight time for the longbow and 7.2 seconds for the Mary Rose. Now as to rate of loosing. The english warbow website seems to be dedicated to historically accurate bows and I checked out their youtube: uk.youtube.com/user/englishwarbowThey are using a middle ages draw technique which would take longer than a modern technique but if we're talking historical it seems legitimate to me. From looking at their draw speeds, it takes at least a second. That seems to really knock out the chance of the typical long/war bow. For the Mary Rose, a 150ish lb bow which would take longer it still sleeps plausible until you take the time to recover and notch another arrow. That would be at least 2 seconds and maybe 3. In fact the high end of claims as to rate of (aimed) loosing for a middle ages warbow is 20 per minute, with most claims being around the low teens, bringing us to around to a minimum of 3s per aimed shot, though aiming wasn't part of the feat - that could shave some time off, so perhaps 2s? From what I recall uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM shows techniques with a Mary Rose warbow replica. The draw on this weapon is at least 2s. To me these numbers seem to indicate that on an historical English bow using historical technique the feat would not be likely. Edit again: Here www.atarn.org/islamic/Performance/Performance_of_Turkish_bows.htm I just found some info on the Turkish bows... very interesting. Apparently there is a record for 930 yards (2790 feet) in the 1500s with a speculated speed of 400 fps. This would give a flight time of about 7s. Again despite the superior range it doesn't seem to help. Final edit: I found an arrow flight program here: www.goarchers.org.uk/mechanics/ (http://www.goarchers.org.uk/mechanics/flight.zip) and the dimensions of a Mary Rose arrow here: www.englishwarbow.com/making-mary-rose-war-arrow.htmlPlugging in the dimensions using an arrow FOC% of 10 from www.florilegium.org/files/ARCHERY/arrows-msg.rtfI get a flight time of 7.28 seconds, but with a distance of 270 yards, using 170 feet per second. i36.tinypic.com/2lsgva8.jpgAt least that shows the estimated time used wasn't too far off, but it does show my methodology to be woefully innacurate!
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 9, 2008 18:36:58 GMT
Karma +1 absilits. Your our new throwing trainer I throw axes in the SCA myself. Do you throw in any particular organization? You really did a great job of spelling out technique. I learned a few things. Thanks. tanks for the compliment. As of right now I only throw in competitions, but I've done a few workshops locally for some sca folks
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 9, 2008 18:51:35 GMT
The only criticism I have Abs is that you lean over your centre of balance, make sure you keep your back straight and don't lean over your centre of balance. Nice job mate, thanks for a really good beginners tutorial Over extending past C.O.B. allows the mass of your body to further extend into the throw. It minutely affects aim, but not enough to justify standing rigid. As far as the francs go, yes they did indeed throw axes with the intention of them hitting the ground and bouncing. Whole front lines would do this while archers would volly into the middle of the on coming forces. It is a technique that I have been working on for awhile. Even though when they would throw, they had no specific target in mind, I throw to get it to bounce into the target.
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