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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2008 23:34:07 GMT
Look forward to seeing them! It'll be a while before I even get the trail hawks, shipping from florida to oregon UPS ground
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2008 23:21:36 GMT
So Absilits, can you tell me how you determine the number of paces you need to be from the target depending on the handle length or is it just an instinctual thing.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 22, 2008 0:00:36 GMT
Theres a simple theory. 3 &7/8s of an inche of handle length = about a pace from the target. I say theory because it will get you close enough to stick the axe, but its not exact. another formula people use is 1 inch of length is = to about 3/4" to1 foot distance from target. I've tested this, some times it works, sometimes not. it works well for knives, but not axes. The weight of the head doesn't affect the paces as much as it affects the fall of the axe. Heavier axes have to be thrown a little harder because it takes more velocity to get them to the target. Try this. It also depends on how you throw, but it will get you close. Happy throwing!! ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 0:53:16 GMT
Thanks, I've been trying this out using a knife and it works great, I can stick it pretty consistently at about four paces, I mutilated the target I was using so I need to make a new one.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 22, 2008 1:02:23 GMT
if youre at four paces, try moving back to 8, see how that works. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 1:14:12 GMT
Yeah I did that earlier this morning and I stuck the first few throws but then for some reason I started missing until I decided to keep at 4
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 2:05:49 GMT
Your throw has to be consistent. Your release point needs to be the same each time you throw, especially with knives. If you release too early you will flub the throw. Same with releasing too late. I find that at five paces, 10 paces and 15 paces I need to release when my hand is at about head height and the blade is released from my hand when it is perpendicular to the ground. If I release before or after that then the knife doesn't rotate properly and won't stick. I've also found that the way you hold the blade is important too in knives. If you hold higher up on the blade it will rotate less than if you hold it lower. My friend and instructor on throwing weapons showed me that while you can't ever get a knife to not rotate in the air you can change how often it rotates depending on how high up you grip the knife. I'm not good enough to do it consistently but he can vary the rotation of his knives from one rotation per 4ft to 1 rotation per 10 ft. It all just depends on his grip of the knife and his release.
-Sam
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 22, 2008 2:20:45 GMT
Your throw has to be consistent. Your release point needs to be the same each time you throw, especially with knives. If you release too early you will flub the throw. Same with releasing too late. I find that at five paces, 10 paces and 15 paces I need to release when my hand is at about head height and the blade is released from my hand when it is perpendicular to the ground. If I release before or after that then the knife doesn't rotate properly and won't stick. I've also found that the way you hold the blade is important too in knives. If you hold higher up on the blade it will rotate less than if you hold it lower. My friend and instructor on throwing weapons showed me that while you can't ever get a knife to not rotate in the air you can change how often it rotates depending on how high up you grip the knife. I'm not good enough to do it consistently but he can vary the rotation of his knives from one rotation per 4ft to 1 rotation per 10 ft. It all just depends on his grip of the knife and his release. -Sam Sam makes an excellent point here. you can adjust the rotation of any given weapon by the grip you hold it by. For instance, if you hold your thumb up the spine of the handle of an axe instead if keeping it down, it gives you 3/4 of a step back. Hold your index finger up and you get a full step and a 1/4.. The reason is, these fingers make the axe begin its rotation later in the air, thus giving you distance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 2:46:33 GMT
I'm sorry if this is offensive to you or your teacher but it's rather easy to get a knife to not rotate, an axe? no, a knife, easy as pie, you even use the same stance and arm movement as what Abs. has shown.
You can also use an overhead throw which is a bit hard to get consistent with but still you're throwing straight, it's just a matter of how the knife leaves your hand. And yeah the higher up on the blade you hold the slower it rotates, which is something I learned from keen observation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 2:47:53 GMT
Your throw has to be consistent. Your release point needs to be the same each time you throw, especially with knives. If you release too early you will flub the throw. Same with releasing too late. I find that at five paces, 10 paces and 15 paces I need to release when my hand is at about head height and the blade is released from my hand when it is perpendicular to the ground. If I release before or after that then the knife doesn't rotate properly and won't stick. I've also found that the way you hold the blade is important too in knives. If you hold higher up on the blade it will rotate less than if you hold it lower. My friend and instructor on throwing weapons showed me that while you can't ever get a knife to not rotate in the air you can change how often it rotates depending on how high up you grip the knife. I'm not good enough to do it consistently but he can vary the rotation of his knives from one rotation per 4ft to 1 rotation per 10 ft. It all just depends on his grip of the knife and his release. -Sam Sam makes an excellent point here. you can adjust the rotation of any given weapon by the grip you hold it by. For instance, if you hold your thumb up the spine of the handle of an axe instead if keeping it down, it gives you 3/4 of a step back. Hold your index finger up and you get a full step and a 1/4.. The reason is, these fingers make the axe begin its rotation later in the air, thus giving you distance. Yes yes, another thing I was noticing, when I held three fingers on the blade of the knife instead of one I get much more consistent throws at four paces.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 3:42:55 GMT
I really don't take offense at your words at all. I have about 20 years of throwing behind me albeit not all in tournament (I kept my throwing to practical throwing, not just competitions and trick throws). I'm just putting out my observations so that perhaps you or others can glean a bit of information from it. Yes, I've been throwing weapons since I was 12. My father is a an old soldier who swore none of his kids would be wimps so we were taught how to shoot at the age of 6. I was enrolled in karate at the age of 10 and at age 12 I was being taught to throw axes, knives, shuriken etc. That being yes, as Absilitis has stated above, it is possible to vary the throw of an axe.
Really I'm not sure how you got on the topic of an axe but you had mentioned throwing knives and therefore I kept my post to regarding knives. Similar techniques can be applied to axes. While I am of the firm belief that it is not possible to prevent a weapon from rotating in the air short of giving it flights/fletching etc, it is possible to slow the rotation or speed it up depending on your needs. When you mentioned that you stuck the first few throws of your knife at 8 paces then flubbed the rest I just wanted to point out what might be the problem. Take it or leave it. I wasn't pointing out flaws or trying to give life lessons.
Another observation though - you reacted somewhat harshly toward my post and yet when it was affirmed by Absilitis you were very... accomodating and humble. If you have an axe to grind with me (pun intended) pm me and we can bury the hatchet (no pun intended) in private.
-Sam
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 3:48:02 GMT
I'll say it here first, I mean no offense and I never have.
I can however confirm for you that it is indeed possible to throw a spike and even a knife straight without rotation, I will go find the video and PM it to you in a moment. What I said about the axe was that I don't think it's possible or at least not close to easy to stick an axe without rotation so I think you misread me there. I see how you may have taken my post to you the wrong way so I apologize.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 3:57:28 GMT
I see. I'll look forward to the video. I've seen quite a few videos of no rotation throwing and if you slow it down frame by frame (so long as the thrown weapon is visible in the video) you will notice it rotating.
Also personally I've tried various methods and techniques of throwing only to notice my weapon tumbling in the air. If someone has truly succeeded in throwing without rotation at a distance greater than 4 paces I'd love to see and learn. No rotation throwing means you can pretty much get anything to stick at any distance. That has amazing practical uses.
-Sam
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 4:02:20 GMT
I sent it to you, here's the video as well, he throws with no spin at a very very long distance. His method is rather difficult though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 5:04:58 GMT
Bishop I posted a very long and detailed reply to your video in pm. I'll summarize here for all to see.
1. Enlarge the video and slow it down if you can. Watch as you notice the weapons that can be seen in flight do in fact rotate in flight.
2. Some weapons do not strike straight on as a "no spin" throw would strike but rather some strike having over rotated, others under rotated. One particular weapon strikes hilt first later on in the video. Clear indications of rotation in flight.
3. The weapons thrown are very long with a center of gravity near the middle of each item. This makes for a very long rotational pattern and thus can appear to the average watcher to not rotate at all.
4. He paces the throws out carefully. Those throws he makes on distance strike true. The ones he has diverged from distance strike either under rotated or over rotated. I'd wager if he took several steps toward the target he'd fail to stick any of those weapons at all.
5. When watching this video do not watch the scrolling text. Watch for his throws, any visible signs of flight and for the impact of the weapons against the targets particularly how they strike.
All in all I'd say this video shows quite clearly that the throws are not at all "no-spin".
If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but I would like to have the flaws in my observations and logic pointed out.
-Sam
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 5:28:09 GMT
Actually everything I said to you in the PM, ignore it, that was all senseless blabbering but something I failed to point out is that, this is NO spin, none of his throws make a single revolution so no that is what no spin is.
You see now? That is the point, when most people throw a knife, it makes at least one revolution before hitting, with him, they never do, no spin. With Avery in his video(hope I spelled it right) the axes make one revolution, spin. You see?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 5:38:06 GMT
No spin means no spin as in no rotation at all. If the larger weapons even make 3/4 of a rotation then its still rotating in flight. As for the smaller ones I'd doubt that they don't make any rotations at all although you can't see them flying so I guess that means they don't rotate. You haven't pointed out any flaws in my observations or logic. As for over rotated or under rotated strikes (especially the one that strikes hilt first) I'd say they were clear signs of rotation.
Again, if I'm wrong please provide evidence that I am wrong in this aspect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 5:43:56 GMT
lol, here lets rephrase this shall we, "no full revolution throwing" eh?
I'm not going to bother arguing it with you though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 5:46:52 GMT
That's fine. I was going to mention that I think we've hijacked this thread. Back to axes then...
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Oct 22, 2008 21:24:49 GMT
Even though I have tried to stick to just axes in this thread,I thought I'd chime in on this one. At a long enough distance from the target, all knives will rotate. Having said that, I have seen men throw from 50 feet, and there blades only do a quarter rotation. This is of course due to the length of the blade. It has been said that a no spin throw is impossible, I dont agree with that. If the instrument in question doesnt fully rotate, then that is a no rotation throw. It doesnt mean that it wouldn't eventually rotate, if thrown from far enough back. Both of you have valid points, It really just comes down to what each of us as individuals know and are capable of. There you have my 2 cents. Oh yeah, it is completely impossible to throw an axe with no spin unless you are a foot away from the target! ;D
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