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Post by mountainsylph on Apr 6, 2022 13:10:45 GMT
Assuming this would be in countries where firearms cannot be owned for self-defense and polearms or swords would be the best do you think the former would be practical at all?
Various YouTubers such as shadiversity and skallagrim or people on several forums have talked about swords plenty of times but what about polearms per say on property or would they be a bad option because of how difficult it might be to justify it in court since you would be mostly expected to have barricaded yourself in a room first?
The main ones that come to mind besides pole-hammers would be the bills variants, glaives or just the more mainstream designs for spears.
Would they be superior or inferior to longer swords and bastard swords or would both longer swords and polearms alike be bad options in general?
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Post by mrbadexample on Apr 6, 2022 13:36:52 GMT
It didn’t work out so well for Gunnar Hamundarson, but one could argue that was more on his wife than on his bow and polearm. I’ve read that the naginata was used for home defense, but I’ve understood that as outside the front door.
I can think of a few places in or around the house that a thrust-oriented polearm with cutting potential could be effective. I wouldn’t want to approach a front door that had a partisan or glaive sticking out of it. The door frame would cut off a lot of angles of attack. I could also see such a weapon being effective for defending a stairway from a large, open landing. The important thing for the wielder would be ample space on their end of whatever bottleneck they were trying to defend. I think a backup weapon would be a must too. Once that distance is closed indoors, the polearm is done.
There are some fights in The 12 Children of Paris by Tim Willocks in which the main character fights in houses or around entryways with a combination of bow, polearm, and dagger. That seems like a good setup for me if I happened to be fighting in 16th century Paris.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 6, 2022 14:31:44 GMT
I would have to say "not at all". They are too unwieldy to be effective in the average home (unless you are a wealthy Hollywood star in a mega-mansion).
I would choose a baseball bat over a polearm for home defense if it came down to using a stick of some kind. Or even a simple machete would be more useful than a polearm in that situation.
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Post by Murffy on Apr 6, 2022 14:42:07 GMT
A spear would be pretty ideal for covering a door or narrow passageway, but awkward if you have to move around in tight spaces. A long hewing weapon I think would be problematic all around for indoor defense.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 6, 2022 15:08:52 GMT
A spear would be pretty ideal for covering a door or narrow passageway, but awkward if you have to move around in tight spaces. A long hewing weapon I think would be problematic all around for indoor defense. A Zulu spear, the "Iklwa", would be great since it's a relatively short, one handed design. But anything longer I think would be a liability rather than an asset in home defense. But as far as an actual European style pole arm, no.
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Post by mountainsylph on Apr 6, 2022 15:23:37 GMT
A spear would be pretty ideal for covering a door or narrow passageway, but awkward if you have to move around in tight spaces. A long hewing weapon I think would be problematic all around for indoor defense. A Zulu spear, the "Iklwa", would be great since it's a relatively short, one handed design. But anything longer I think would be a liability rather than an asset in home defense. But as far as an actual European style pole arm, no. So even in gardens or passageways that lead around your house if its in a suburban neighborhood maybe? And for your previous quote when you said 'not at all' do you mean to also include longer swords or bastard swords? If so what should be the maximum length of a sword blade? 69-70-ish centimeters?
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 6, 2022 16:23:38 GMT
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 6, 2022 16:58:42 GMT
I would think anything over 80cm maximum would be ungainly inside of a home and require a technique that would not maximize the weapon's effectiveness. This would include most two handed swords of all types. Better to use something that is designed for close quarters. Even the Japanese recognized this and only carried their wakizashi indoors, most of which measured between 30 to 60cm.
Even if you short-choked the polearm, you would still have a considerable length of it swinging around behind you that could bump into things and otherwise cause serious maneuverability problems. A iklwa would be the only spear-like object that I could see using indoors at least somewhat effectively.
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 6, 2022 16:58:57 GMT
As alluded to above... the amount of space/room you have to fight in and the potential weapon of your adversary will dictate your preferred weapon. In the close quarters of most homes and assuming your opponent is not using a pole arm, I think a shorter sword would be the preferred non firearm home defense weapon.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 6, 2022 17:08:05 GMT
I assume inside your house/apartment. Pole arms generally will not work well as they are cumbersome and a bit unwieldy. You will need to consider the space available for a swing with evens short weapons such as a war hammer. Remember that you and your adversary will probably be moving around. A spear considering relying on a thrust and speed would be an exception. I relied on a short Assegai spear w/shield for years. If you go the spear route, or a pole arm in general, I’d suggest a backup blade, you will need it if your adversary gets on the inside. Also remember that you will be defenceless until you are able to retrieve your point if more than one adversary is involved.
Now I see that you added gardens, passage ways around neighbouring houses and maximum length sword blades. I’d forget the first part as you will be asked why were you out of your house; lawyers and courts can be nasty. As for maximum blade lengths, I’d be looking for the shortest practical useable lengths due to the confined areas you will probably be in. Once out of your house it becomes a whole different ball game. Aside from the legal issues it is not uncommon for the crook(s) to have a backup completely separate and most likely unseen by you who will close at the worst possible time.
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Post by mountainsylph on Apr 6, 2022 17:08:09 GMT
As alluded to above... the amount of space/room you have to fight in and the potential weapon of your adversary will dictate your preferred weapon. In the close quarters of most homes and assuming your opponent is not using a pole arm, I think a shorter sword would be the preferred non firearm home defense weapon. It seems like some of the most used weapons that are long by assailants who are not using firearms would be machetes, baseball bats, sledgehammers, crowbars and tire irons. Against those weapons some people might think "Maybe a longer sword or polearm so I don't get hurt". I hope this is not too graphical to mention but in some really malicious cases the assailants just want to outnumber you so they can get you on the ground and all kick you or in some more worse cases bludgeon.
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Post by mountainsylph on Apr 6, 2022 17:11:29 GMT
Now I see that you added gardens, passage ways around neighbouring houses and maximum length sword blades. I’d forget the first part as you will be asked why were you out of your house; lawyers and courts can be nasty. No as in the passageways or gardens would be on your property, not outside in the neighborhood but in the context that you live in a suburban neighborhood house (You might be out for a stroll when a guy barges in or checking to see where a noise came from so it could be leaned against a wall somewhere already) or would that also apply for that too generally?
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Post by Lord Newport on Apr 6, 2022 17:12:47 GMT
As alluded to above... the amount of space/room you have to fight in and the potential weapon of your adversary will dictate your preferred weapon. In the close quarters of most homes and assuming your opponent is not using a pole arm, I think a shorter sword would be the preferred non firearm home defense weapon. It seems like some of the most used weapons that are long by assailants who are not using firearms would be machetes, baseball bats, sledgehammers, crowbars and tire irons. Against those weapons some people might think "Maybe a longer sword or polearm so I don't get hurt". I hope this is not too graphical to mention but in some really malicious cases the assailants want to outnumber you so they can get you on the ground and kick you. Any cutting / impact weapon is useless unless you can get it on target before your opponent gets his on you. A long pole arm (spear/pole axe) in a close quarters situation I think would be difficult at best to maneuver quickly in a fight and might be easy for an opponent to get inside it on a missed thrust or perry and trap it while using a shorter weapon on you.
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Post by cerberus1426 on Apr 6, 2022 17:20:42 GMT
I would probably go for a spear first but it depends on your house. A big living room where you have room? absolutely. Assuming a home invader had a more normal melee weapon(knife/bat/Machete) in an open space like that i would bet on the polearm 9/10times. On top of that there is the intimidation factor. If someone who is doing bad things like that does break in they 100% expect to be the intimidator and when you turn the tables with a massive weapon they would panic. If you had a smaller place however and your options were historical weapons a thrust centric weapon like a spear or rapier would probably be a great choice. Real tough to close the distance in a hallway with something long and fast.
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Post by Murffy on Apr 6, 2022 17:34:00 GMT
A spear considering relying on a thrust and speed would be an exception. I tend to agree with this. I've used a spear, about six feet long, to defend my small home against imaginary orcs that frequently invade. The spear is surprisingly agile and, as stated before, great at defending doorways. Nevertheless, it's still at pretty high-risk of getting hung up on something and, probably most disadvantageous for a spear, is getting backed up up against a wall. A spear needs room behind the wielder to work well.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Apr 6, 2022 17:39:42 GMT
A spear considering relying on a thrust and speed would be an exception. I tend to agree with this. I've used a spear, about six feet long, to defend my small home against imaginary orcs that frequently invade. The spear is surprisingly agile and, as stated before, great at defending doorways. Nevertheless, it's still at pretty high-risk of getting hung up on something and, probably most disadvantageous for spear, is getting backed up up against a wall. A spear needs room behind the wielder to work well. YES! This is exactly the problem with a polearm or long spear. You can't think about only what is right in front of you when THE REST OF THE SPEAR IS BEHIND YOU! As you maneuver in front, the other half of the spear is doing the opposite on your back side. Whatever situation you can conjure up, the fact remains that the spear is X length and will always be X length regardless of where you are holding it or the size of the room you are in. And I've said it before: you can't simply create your ideal situation and then retroactively choose the best weapon. You must choose your weapon, then use it in whatever situation arises. Think about your own home as it is right now, and now think about being in the corner of the smallest room- if your weapon can't work there, then pick something else.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 6, 2022 18:33:56 GMT
I can’t argue against the two above. Take note that I depended on a short spear w/shield but fortunately never needed it. I did grab a long spear once for my rear garden. The scoundrel got away but it was a good lesson that I took to heart. When I thrust the tassel got hung in the razor wire. Needless to say no more tassel.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 6, 2022 19:14:05 GMT
This will probably be my last post to this thread as there is no definitive answer. I consider a garden to be outside, but not off my property. I would not want to fight there for two reasons. I do not feel like answering the legal question “if I thought I was in danger why didn’t I go in and lock the door” which is sure to come. The other is I’m too exposed. I’d rather trap the intruder in a narrow doorway or passage. That would not only restrict his movements but he would be blocking his companions preventing them from flanking me and surely giving me one opponent at a time regardless. I feel reasonably secure in my gardens. Some of my protection are walls, some of iron. The garden in front has two such fences, the other is to my left off camera and also must be passed to enter. Razor wire, cameras, alarm system, there are security bars on the windows unseen on the inside here, as on my sky lights. The rear has a higher wall lined with broken bottles and razor wire. I have three phones, indelpendent of each other. The door is steel opening to the outside, no handle. Double locks on the outside doors. People have tried to get in but never succeeded. Many times that I’m in my gardens I carry a kukri only occasionally a machete, for pruning purposes of course as I’m a timid peaceful man. Front Garden Rear Garden Rear Wall
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Post by howler on Apr 6, 2022 20:00:21 GMT
I think a longer polearm spear type weapon could shine if you have a partner at your side in the home armed with a shorter blade. Of course, some training between both of you would be required.
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Post by pellius on Apr 6, 2022 20:39:30 GMT
Assuming this would be in countries where firearms cannot be owned for self-defense and polearms or swords would be the best do you think the former would be practical at all? Various YouTubers such as shadiversity and skallagrim or people on several forums have talked about swords plenty of times but what about polearms per say on property or would they be a bad option because of how difficult it might be to justify it in court since you would be mostly expected to have barricaded yourself in a room first? The main ones that come to mind besides pole-hammers would be the bills variants, glaives or just the more mainstream designs for spears. Would they be superior or inferior to longer swords and bastard swords or would both longer swords and polearms alike be bad options in general? The…thrust…of the question seems to be about legal justification in unspecified countries. Laws are different depending on where you are. Best to seek professional guidance and legal advice in your home jurisdiction. That said, I would imagine most jurors seeing a glaive or the like in person for the first time would be terrified and appalled, especially if presented in evidence right after the photos of the gory carnage wrought by it. My non-legal opinion is that almost any other item would be a better choice for home defense.
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