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Post by darth on Jul 18, 2016 13:00:47 GMT
I think I might call them and demand they either wait till they get their next batch in and if that does not happen, send me something else. I did not buy this sword to work on it. I bought a CS for out of the box, let's get to training.
So if I have someone else do all this crap on the sword, by the time it's all done I'd be near the $$ for an Armour Class basket hilt sword.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jul 18, 2016 13:44:09 GMT
www.ltspecpro.com/Product/88SEB/ENGLISH_BACK_SWORD.aspxIt's there alright. Under 2016 items. Blade thickness 6mm. Darth: while your at it you could tell them to have a look here? It is not so very hard to fix and I guess $10 go a long way. Armour Class, so I hear, tend to suffer from softish blades.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 15:13:39 GMT
All India made swords are Imperial as far as I have encountered, not metric. When I meassure I get 6mm, but I do not have a digital system, so it might be 6.1 or 6.02 or 5.99. A metric nut will not fit anyway. So this mortuary is 1/4"x 20 tpi? That is an SAE, not an Imperial label. TPI= threads per inch, surely you can measure that, even without a thread gauge. Below are three SAE threads side by side. A Spanish Oscar Kolombatovich and Del Tin/MRL with 1/4"x20tpi and MRL mentioned before with a 5/16"x18tpi thread. Ironically, that scary looking Kolombatovich had been used to bash both maille and plate strapped to a side of beef. Attachments:
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jul 18, 2016 15:48:00 GMT
Edelweiss, a metric nut does not fit. What it is or not I do not know nor do I care. When I do 9 turns I come up with about 7.5mm, slightly less. How many threads that is I do not know. At this moment I have stuff to do. You go meassure that. The local blacksmith when faced with my Windlass took one look and delved into an old box full of Imperial threading stuff. His stuff fitted beautifully. Whatever this s#it is , it is not metric. It may be Inuit for what I care, or Parthian Zoroastern. It does not matter. This sword is still not any safer by knowing what kind of threading there is on this thing. Now, if you excuse me, I have a Chasseur d'Orleans grip to wire.
Cheers.
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Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2016 16:18:07 GMT
I don't understand what the metrics of the thread have to do with what has been found overall faulty with the hilt of this sword? Is a different nut really going to remedy or change the fact that the handle is too wide and shifts? The guard slot is to wide and doesn't hold the blade in place? That the stock nut itself is a keyed variety that doesn't thread tightly enough down for secure assembly?
Even if you can fit a new nut to the threaded tang that fits and holds the pommel, how is any of that going to remedy the issues with the handle and guard? Especially when it's already been brought to light that the handle twisting loosens the nut (creating risk of helicopter blade) and makes cutting uncomfortable anyway.
Blade thickness opinions and nuts aside it seems the major issue with this sword is the handle and guard which are too big for this sword to be considered properly battle ready. Again I've seen no cutting from CS with this sword even though there are videos of other 2016 swords that released at similar time. Makes you wonder if CS already knows all this but is keeping it from their customers.
There definitely should be a recall on these mortuary swords, even if there is chance of fixing the issues via DIY. With this swords construction it's just waiting to be a helicopter of death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 18:29:14 GMT
I don't believe I asked the question to justify or negate the safety of the build. It was a very simple question that could and should have been answerable without the vitriol exhibited in responses to simple questions. Similarly, when asking if someone cuts with their swords. Those may seem somehow inflammatory but they were both very simple questions not needing a song and dance to answer.
I asked the question regarding threads to verify if India was suddenly using metric threads. Is that clear enough? Further asking if the thread was 1/4"x20 shouldn't be such a hurdle for someone with a ruler. Or for that matter any somewhat familiar with standards.
No videos but I was cutting along with two friends that also had a go. There are also the other two accounts here, including the one that broke (with no followup). I stand by my impression of the example I own. Still sound and straight, ringing like a bell.
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Post by darth on Jul 18, 2016 19:45:26 GMT
I'm calling Dylan at Cold Steel. He seems a good guy, seemed to give a damn. He was cool and I'm getting all pissed before I get a sword back, I think I should gove him the respect of another call. I can semprini here or maybe I can bring this thread and certain relevant post to his attention and get this situation fixed for everyone involved and maybe save this models reputation by them fixing, not rigging the problem. I am going to ask him to look this thread over, maybe even sign in and respond? At least do something more than a wood shim or " get a good looking one" that's still not a battle ready sword in most of the opinions here. Either stell shim our's or have us wait till the next batch comes in. They should send all the $#%^ up's back to who %$%%^ed them up. Don't pass that poo on to us the consumer, the consumers that are going to semprini about it on the internet if they don't pass it back to whoever F'ed up. So let's keep arguments over metric, Imperial or whatever screw size to the side so maybe we can unclutter this thread? The sizes relevant to this issue are 4mm and 6mm. So either a hand guard and handle gets tossed out and remade or the blades get tossed and remade or they shim it with steel? Really shimming is bullsemprini with anew sword, you don’t have to be a 20 year cutting collector to demand that much! Whatever works for CS and us. You are all smart guys, so lets stuff our egos so I can get a sword my 13 year old can cut with, please. Do it for the children.
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Post by darth on Jul 18, 2016 19:56:43 GMT
Left a voice mail, directed him to this thread, said a bit of what I said, Ulhan's wood shim, ect and I asked him to call me.
Let's see. Let's gather to fix this, not be like the dips that we all elected who do just what we started to do, semprini about BS and at each other. We'll fix this fellas.
Gung Ho! Work Together!
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Post by darth on Jul 18, 2016 20:06:15 GMT
Edelweiss: my post on BF appeared just above yours. BF has my email address and I linked to the review here, so they have multiple ways to react. As BF is, as I see it, mainly a CS promotion and customer feedback research site, the place should be crawling with CS reps from many departments. Then again, BF is dedicated to CS main business which is knives. So CS reps will be knive people who may have a blind spot for swords. The response I got was from a member, not a rep. Thank you Dave for doing the telephone discussion. It appears I was right about ,, India ''. Since KOA is advertising the swords to be 4mm thick, I get the impression that there are no 6mm blades in this first run at all. If so, that would make efforts to get a 6mm blade redundant. One can only hope to get a thicker blade, like 5mm or so. Since the hole in the guard is for a 6mm blade, I have my suspicions that maybe not all is well in the thread - pommel department too. If the pommel is threaded for a 6mm blade and they just filled the space with some epoxy filler to make an undersized tang fit, we're in for real problems. If this is the case and I will check mine, the best thing to do would be to pin the grip to the tang. Over time the whole hilt assembly might come off if that pommel is not screwed on thight. Not wanting to sound alarming, but take care to study what is going on in the pommel. Cheers. As I noted above, my replacement was described as "hand picked", so you know they may well have (I assume) attempted to pick a good one...as they had 20 days to do so. The replacement was 72g heavier (2 1/2oz) than the original, or 41.2oz (and roughly 1 3/4oz heavier than the KOA advertisement). Still 4mm at the guard...yet 4 1/2mm a half inch out and continuing for some distance....have you seen such a thing? Howler, when you look at the blade comming out of the hand guard, doest it look like a good tight fit or do you see gaps? I am damn sure that when i got my sword, it looked good to me. I know I looked it over, I'm anal about things I pay for. This had to happen after a few measly cuts on water bottles and a penetta and the fact that I air drilled with this thing every day.
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Post by howler on Jul 18, 2016 20:37:16 GMT
I'm calling Dylan at Cold Steel. He seems a good guy, seemed to give a damn. He was cool and I'm getting all pissed before I get a sword back, I think I should gove him the respect of another call. I can semprini here or maybe I can bring this thread and certain relevant post to his attention and get this situation fixed for everyone involved and maybe save this models reputation by them fixing, not rigging the problem. I am going to ask him to look this thread over, maybe even sign in and respond? At least do something more than a wood shim or " get a good looking one" that's still not a battle ready sword in most of the opinions here. Either stell shim our's or have us wait till the next batch comes in. They should send all the $#%^ up's back to who %$%%^ed them up. Don't pass that poo on to us the consumer, the consumers that are going to semprini about it on the internet if they don't pass it back to whoever F'ed up. So let's keep arguments over metric, Imperial or whatever screw size to the side so maybe we can unclutter this thread? The sizes relevant to this issue are 4mm and 6mm. So either a hand guard and handle gets tossed out and remade or the blades get tossed and remade or they shim it with steel? Really shimming is bullsemprini with anew sword, you don’t have to be a 20 year cutting collector to demand that much! Whatever works for CS and us. You are all smart guys, so lets stuff our egos so I can get a sword my 13 year old can cut with, please. Do it for the children. Hey, Darth, I just got off the phone with Russell, who told me Dylan no longer works there. I gave him "THE SAGA" (I'm pushing near three months on this growing cluster poop), and he seemed like a cool guy who said he would "get cooking" on this and contact me soon. I also informed him to go to Sword Buyers Guide forum and see what people FAR more knowledgeable than I are saying about this "new style" sword, how the handle and guard have problems and are either too big for the blade, or the blade is too small for the handle/guard. Knife Center expected me to pay return shipping (60 something bucks) because the sword CS sent back to me was a "hand picked" non defective item. I could/should have just sent the damn thing back to Knife Center originally and not been out any money, but CS wanted to examine it (and took FOREVER to get it back to me). I still believe in CS, as they always come through, and that this is just a foray into different territory (lighter, more historically accurate offerings), and that their customer service will make things right.
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Post by darth on Jul 18, 2016 20:41:40 GMT
Is Russell the guy with Dylan's job, because I want to get in there and call?
I want a good, safe sword. I liked this sword if not for the twuit. make the handle and handguard for that blade and I;d be fine with it. Be happier with a 6mm start but.
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Post by howler on Jul 18, 2016 20:45:36 GMT
As I noted above, my replacement was described as "hand picked", so you know they may well have (I assume) attempted to pick a good one...as they had 20 days to do so. The replacement was 72g heavier (2 1/2oz) than the original, or 41.2oz (and roughly 1 3/4oz heavier than the KOA advertisement). Still 4mm at the guard...yet 4 1/2mm a half inch out and continuing for some distance....have you seen such a thing? Howler, when you look at the blade comming out of the hand guard, doest it look like a good tight fit or do you see gaps? I am damn sure that when i got my sword, it looked good to me. I know I looked it over, I'm anal about things I pay for. This had to happen after a few measly cuts on water bottles and a penetta and the fact that I air drilled with this thing every day. Big gaps, my friend, and sort of made a sound when I whipped it to one side, testing it (though I could not determine the origin). As it stands, I am not comfortable with owning this particular sword (after reading above posts from the more knowledgeable forum members) in its current form. When I saw that 4mm measurement, to tell you the truth, my heart kind of sank...three months, and I was soooooo looking to hold the thing in triumph (what do you want...I lead a boring life ). Hope they fix this things weaknesses, as it holds a lot of potential promise....as it is a very beautiful sword I would like to add to my collection.
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Post by darth on Jul 18, 2016 20:56:14 GMT
I just called Russell as well, he answered. he's had this problem a whole hour now. He's on with the R&D and everyone else and he said give him about a week or so. I told him I'll leave him be for 2 weeks. If I get a sword before then, I am sending it right back and I'll let him know I did.
I told him that I'd rather wait till they either had the sword right or give me a different sword. I'd wait 3-5 months of I get a CS English Back Sword that handles like mine did but is tight and right, I will be happy. It' will be that long before I buy another sword any ways.
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Post by howler on Jul 18, 2016 20:56:37 GMT
Is Russell the guy with Dylan's job, because I want to get in there and call? I want a good, safe sword. I liked this sword if not for the twuit. make the handle and handguard for that blade and I;d be fine with it. Be happier with a 6mm start but. I didn't ask, but I assume he was by the way he kind of "took charge". After reading all the above posts by the more knowledgeable posters detailed analysis, even a rank amateur like myself can get the basic gist that the English Backsword needs to be fixed. Wait until they have this sword (which hold much promise, btw) "ironed out" and except NOTHING LESS.
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Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2016 20:58:04 GMT
I don't believe I asked the question to justify or negate the safety of the build. It was a very simple question that could and should have been answerable without the vitriol exhibited in responses to simple questions. Similarly, when asking if someone cuts with their swords. Those may seem somehow inflammatory but they were both very simple questions not needing a song and dance to answer. I asked the question regarding threads to verify if India was suddenly using metric threads. Is that clear enough? Further asking if the thread was 1/4"x20 shouldn't be such a hurdle for someone with a ruler. Or for that matter any somewhat familiar with standards. No videos but I was cutting along with two friends that also had a go. There are also the other two accounts here, including the one that broke (with no followup). I stand by my impression of the example I own. Still sound and straight, ringing like a bell. Well it seemed a little agressive for a simple question. Maybe I just read it wrong. On the second part, does your success negate the construction faults made apparent in this thread? Sure yours is holding up but for how long? If yours is built the same way and had the same gaps and faults don't you think taking them into consideration is better than arguing them?
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jul 18, 2016 21:01:32 GMT
That sound might be the tang or tang shoulder scraping on the guard. This means there is play somewhere. Try to give the pommel nut a nudge. I noticed the same after I just sorta put the sword together again after the picture taking. That nut should be tight, but do not overdo it. That tang might snap. Had this with the Windlass Gustav rapier. Took no effort at all. That one had the same tang. Swelling to 6 mm at the end. Shoddy file work. Could be twins. So, please go easy on this thing. It is what happens when the tang has too much room to move about. Nudging the nut is only a temporary meassure.
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Post by howler on Jul 18, 2016 21:02:55 GMT
I just called Russell as well, he answered. he's had this problem a whole hour now. He's on with the R&D and everyone else and he said give him about a week or so. I told him I'll leave him be for 2 weeks. If I get a sword before then, I am sending it right back and I'll let him know I did. I told him that I'd rather wait till they either had the sword right or give me a different sword. I'd wait 3-5 months of I get a CS English Back Sword that handles like mine did but is tight and right, I will be happy. It' will be that long before I buy another sword any ways. He will probably have me send my sword back to Cold Steel (for the 2nd time...but I'm NOT complaining) and will deal with Knife Center rather than me (if that is the solution). I'm in no hurry as well (even at near 3 months and counting), as long as I'm taken care of in the end and everything is made right.
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Post by darth on Jul 18, 2016 21:07:04 GMT
Is Russell the guy with Dylan's job, because I want to get in there and call? I want a good, safe sword. I liked this sword if not for the twuit. make the handle and handguard for that blade and I;d be fine with it. Be happier with a 6mm start but. I didn't ask, but I assume he was by the way he kind of "took charge". After reading all the above posts by the more knowledgeable posters detailed analysis, even a rank amateur like myself can get the basic gist that the English Backsword needs to be fixed. Wait until they have this sword (which hold much promise, btw) "ironed out" and except NOTHING LESS. Yes, maybe he'll get this done? Maybe that's why my namesake is gone? Sending out swords with wood shims? Maybe Lynn Thompson never knew, maybe he does now and his rep is on the line? he might have fired Dylan and told Russel. " Fix it our we're going hunting for hippo with spear, you'll walk point!" :-) People can talk smack about him and we can say alot of their stuff is too heavy BUT I don't think he's going to want a CS product out there that has this issue. I bet Lynn recalls them all and starts kicking some ass and we get a good sword out of this. Yes a proper and safe CS English Back Sword, no exceptions I will accept no less! But if they discontinue it, then Scottish broadsword or Pipe back for the aggrivation and time. But I will wait.
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Post by howler on Jul 18, 2016 21:13:59 GMT
That sound might be the tang or tang shoulder scraping on the guard. This means there is play somewhere. Try to give the pommel nut a nudge. I noticed the same after I just sorta put the sword together again after the picture taking. That nut should be tight, but do not overdo it. That tang might snap. Had this with the Windlass Gustav rapier. Took no effort at all. That one had the same tang. Swelling to 6 mm at the end. Shoddy file work. Could be twins. So, please go easy on this thing. It is what happens when the tang has too much room to move about. Nudging the nut is only a temporary meassure. Not sure if your referring to my post, Uhlan, but my sword is boxed up and waiting to be shipped back to CS. You, my friend (and your detailed analysis) are a big reason this thing is going back, so I kindly thank you for your work. I want a sound relationship between the handle/guard/blade, and you pointed out imbalances that cannot be ignored (the 4mm thickness being the beginning of the critique).
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Post by howler on Jul 18, 2016 21:27:08 GMT
Yes, maybe he'll get this done? Maybe that's why my namesake is gone? Sending out swords with wood shims? Maybe Lynn Thompson never knew, maybe he does now and his rep is on the line? he might have fired Dylan and told Russel. " Fix it our we're going hunting for hippo with spear, you'll walk point!" :-) People can talk smack about him and we can say alot of their stuff is too heavy BUT I don't think he's going to want a CS product out there that has this issue. I bet Lynn recalls them all and starts kicking some ass and we get a good sword out of this. Yes a proper and safe CS English Back Sword, no exceptions I will accept no less! But if they discontinue it, then Scottish broadsword or Pipe back for the aggrivation and time. But I will wait. Haha, Lynn does like throwing things, doesn't he (I have a Boar, Lance point, and Sargeants Halberd, btw)...swords are side arms and you never bring a sword to a POLEARM fight, as they were the main non ballistic arms of war. People talking smack about Lynn's looks, or business style or whatever, I want to SEE them kick ass in the ring (or business world) like Mr. Thompson, and offer things than NOBODY else has on the market, or for a price you can actually afford. In any case, looks like things are proceeding now, and maybe the English Backsword will emerge at some point (hopefully SOONER) in its PROPER functional glory.
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