ghost
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Post by ghost on Jul 13, 2014 19:56:49 GMT
I had it that way initially for a large scope setup that I had already zeroed in...but I plan on putting the optic on a nice low mount with a magnifier or more likely getting a trijicon acog. (can't afford it atm and I don't want one that swivels out of the way) It is on a high mount in the pics. Imho, the co-witness on my bushmaster does't bring anything extra to the table.
Supposely the argument was for 3 gun competitions - you wouldn't take time to flip up BUIS for those really close up targets while having a scope for distance.
Kinda neat that they don't have to flipped up if the red dot fails, but other than that having zero mag and offsets don't have much of a benefit.
These sights are mostly aluminum btw.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 14, 2014 16:10:25 GMT
I find those offset Dueck Defense 45 degree iron sights to be much faster for extremely close targets, especially moving targets, than using any red dot sight. They work much like shotgun sights if you practice with them. It lets you get away from the "tube effect" that all red dot sights give you at extremely close distances, especially when you and the target are both moving.
That said, I only have them on a rifle with a 1.25-4 power scope. Mostly because they seem to stick out and get in the way on a short, quick-handling carbine.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 14, 2014 16:24:02 GMT
Pic of my Spikes build with 14" Daniel Defense light weight mid-length barrel and permanent Surefire flash hider/suppressor adapter, LaRue handguard, Aimpoint micro/LaRue mount, Troy BUIS and MagPul and BCM furniture. Sorry if anyone objects to the graphic nature of the photo (click to see full-size pic). But that's why this one was built.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jul 14, 2014 18:38:13 GMT
NICE gun Mike... I've been considering getting a NPAP AK Pistol to make into a psudo SBR... but I've not warmed up to the idea of a SBR AR in the 5.56 rd. I've heard that the 5.56 NEEDS the longer barrel and was meant for 18' and longer barrels... and in the shorter ones (10-11inch) it loses a lot of 'omph' and has a LOT of flash. I like yours is 14'... what are your thoughts on the shorter barrel with 5.56 rds?
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 16, 2014 16:13:17 GMT
Thanks Sean. I absolutely love this little rifle. Like you, I'm not very partial to the performance of the 5.56, and especially the .223 (there is a substantial difference these days) in the 10-12 inch barrels. I have a couple, and they are fun toys. But not something I would choose for defensive or hunting applications where as much power as possible is needed, because of that loss of oomph you stated. I've done some chronograph testing with the short barrels. What I found is that all commercial .223 I tested (not an exhaustive test, but a decent cross section) lost a lot of velocity and became very erratic in barrels shorter than 14-16 inches. The 5.56 was a lot more stable and predictable, especially green tip M855. But it still lost a lot of velocity, coming in at about 2,250 fps muzzle velocity from a 10.5" barrel. Compare that to the same round at 3,100 fps from a 20" barrel for an understanding of how much decrease that is. Lose half the barrel, lose a third of the velocity. That puts it barely above a .22 Magnum from a decent rifle barrel. And the .223 loads went as low as 1,750 for 55 gr FMJ and Hornady VMAX and several 55 and 64 gr softpoints. These are all 2,900-3,000 fps loads in a 20" barrel. I am also seriously considering using the SIG arm rest to build a 10.5" barrel AR pistol. Just because they are great fun and I won't have to do another Form 1 or 4 and deal with the wait and $200 tax. But again, that's just a toy for me. For a defensive rifle I greatly prefer a standard 16" carbine with mid-length gas system or piston. So much so that I have gone to substantial lengths to make a collapsed Daniel Defense DDM4V5 carbine short enough to fit in the console section of our helicopter to use as a backup and coyote rifle. A job that was previously filled by the carbine shown above. The performance realized from the 16" barrel really stands out in real life use, even over the 14" one. At least that's what my use has demonstrated on about 40 coyotes and 150-200 feral hogs of all sizes. As always, YMMV.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 17, 2014 14:18:27 GMT
Aww poor piggy. I chose 12 inches for my SBR barrel as I had read that the shorter lengths can have reliability issues and loose a good bit of velocity. From what I understand, the carbine length gas system should work just dandy with a 12 inch barrel but can be iffy with shorter ones.
Hey ShooterMike, what do you think about the 300BLK for an SBR? I was considering that since it only requires a barrel change and all else can be the same. I've kind of decided against it because I'm paranoid that I could one day accidentally feed a 300blk round in to my 5.56 AR and blow it up. My SBR (when the tax stamp ever gets here) is going to be my playpretend zomiealiens invading the house gun.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 17, 2014 14:20:47 GMT
Oh and hey ghost, an acog would really be sweet! For me, these are just hobby guns so I doubt I would ever spend that on them, but who knows.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jul 18, 2014 7:11:16 GMT
Great info Mike... You confirmed my concerns. Definitely going to do a sig brace pap pistol/rifle tho. :-)
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Jul 18, 2014 14:48:39 GMT
Amen. I like 300 blk/whisper. Theyre running the same price online as 308. Sean build that sbr in 300 and you can pass me that tavor.
If the 300 ammo came down more I'd switch out all my uppers. Ar in 308 vs 300....I have no idea which performs better at long range
Mike that pig looks like a villain out of ninja turtles
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 18, 2014 16:12:45 GMT
For an SBR, 12" barrels are perfect IMO. Better reliability and all the other benefits with only .5-1.5" in additional length. I have a Daniel Defense 12" Gov't profile barrel on my registered SBR, with an 11" LaRue handguard. It handles close enough to a rifle-length handguard equipped carbine that I usually can't tell the difference. It's accounted for approximately 10 coyotes and 25-30 smaller feral hogs with 55 gr VMAX and shoots like a dream. Good choice! You can't accidently chamber a .300 BLK in a 5.56 chamber. The bullet is larger in diameter than the 5.56 neck so it will stop about a half inch before it fully chambers. If I were able to justify the cost of .300 BLK I would be using it as a fulltime backup SBR for work. With good bullets in the 110-125 gr range it hits a lot harder than any 5.56/.223 from a short barrel. It reaches max velocity in about 14-16 inches so unlike 5.56/.223, you really aren't giving up much with a 12" SBR setup. But the cost for good performance hunting ammo in .300 BLK is well over $1 a round. I'm getting good .308 for 65-70 cents per round for 165 gr softpoints. They really thump ass on big hogs! And I just don't have time to make and load enough .300 BLK to be worthwhile at this point. But someday... Ghost, the .300 BLK is a short range (less than 200 yards for me) proposition for optimum lethality. The same bore diameter and a 110-125 gr bullet at 2,000-2,300 fps will never come close to a 150-165 gr bullet at 2,700-2,800 fps. Good .308 loads will about double the energy and triple the distance at which the loads are effective. And yeah, he does look like a mutant ninja hogasaurus huh?
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 23, 2014 21:50:32 GMT
Dang, I didn't know the 300BLK was so expensive! I've been getting the cheap PMC 5.56 when it's available for around 33 cents a round.
Hm, I thought for sure I had read of a couple instances where someone had blown apart their AR by accidentally loading a 300BLK round into a 5.56 upper. Could be mistaken though, or thinking of something else.
I can't wait to have a property where I can set up my own range! Though I'm having a heck of a time finding a place that fits all my criteria, may have to give up on the range idea if I ever want to move outa this place.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Aug 2, 2014 16:05:04 GMT
In related news, I got the approval for my SBR a couple days ago. Oddly, they email you a PDF of the form with the stamp on it rather than an actual hard copy with an adhesive backed stamp. Not sure how I feel about that. Guess it doesn't really matter as long as they have it in their records, since they are the ones who actually care about that stuff.
So it took just under 5 months from when I e-filed to when I received approval. I would expect it to be faster now, They were having a bunch of problems right when I sent mine in and have recently done some fixing and hiring of new staff to handle the workload.
I called a local laser engraver to see what it would cost to do the required engraving on the lower, they quoted $60. I figured, "pfft, I'll just do it myself."
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Aug 2, 2014 16:48:59 GMT
This thinking is why I prefer using the Sig Brace then going the registration route... Side note... got my first AR recently... I'll post some pics up here soon and will solicit advice on what to start doing to it.
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ShooterMike
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Post by ShooterMike on Feb 5, 2015 2:17:32 GMT
Just stumbled onto this video on youtube. This guy has my thoughts down pat, says it better than I could, and even adds a big fat stogie for style points.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Feb 5, 2015 13:11:36 GMT
Heh... yeah, seen that video a few months ago. He makes a VERY valid point. At first I was a bit intimidated by the idea of building an AR... but once you start figuring it out, it ain't really that hard, they are lego guns. They are designed to fit together. I only have one right now, but I'm planning to build an 18-20inch barrel version on a spikes Honey Badger lower as soon as I have the cash to do so.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 5, 2015 14:09:33 GMT
Wow, swords and guns. Now if you just add Motorcycles I will live on this site. I have the fortune and misfortune to live in New York, upstate not the city. The dictator we have running this state has made it illegal to buy or sell a AR here and yes that includes build one too. If we have one we can keep it for now but no new ones. We can't buy, sell or even give away an " assault " rifle. He says he's doing if to make New York Safe. But if you modify one to fit their requirements they're legal. If they look like this they are somehow safe in their heads.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 5, 2015 14:54:06 GMT
Hey ShooterMike, that was pretty much my thinking as well, except for the piston part.
Hey Sean, the other benefit is that you get to really understand how it all works together and why one part, or configuration of parts, might work better for you than another.
Hey Gunnar Wolfgard, there certainly are some odd restrictions and requirements around the country. A motorcycle sub-forum would be a nice addition. I belong to a couple motorcycle forums but never find time to get to them. Additionally they've always been fairly model, or at least brand specific, so every time I switch to a different bike, I have to go to a different forum.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Feb 5, 2015 16:11:21 GMT
I've seen those awful 'stocks' that they use in NY to get around the rules. Damn shame, bunch of BS. I'm from CA where the laws are almost as bad... but happy to be in Georgia right now where I can get pretty much everything I want... if I can afford it. Heh.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 6, 2015 7:28:51 GMT
I'm curious as to how intense the muzzle blast is from these very short barrels, I found (many years ago) the muzzle blast from a Mini-14 very uncomfortable.
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ShooterMike
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Post by ShooterMike on Feb 6, 2015 15:08:30 GMT
I'm curious as to how intense the muzzle blast is from these very short barrels, I found (many years ago) the muzzle blast from a Mini-14 very uncomfortable. It can vary quite a bit, depending on the muzzle device used. A bare muzzle is atrocious, as is any type of compensator. Standard "birdcage" is a little better. I've found the Noveske KX3 "Flaming Pig" brake to be the next best thing to a suppressor. It brings 11.5" barrel noise signature and flash down to about what you'd expect from a 16" birdcage. But you pay a price with a lot of weight.
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