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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 19, 2014 22:50:58 GMT
So I had been planning on getting a DD m4v7 as a replacement for my entry level AR. Then when I couldn't sell my old AR, began thinking about keeping the lower and making it into an SBR if I couldn't get rid of it for a reasonable price. (by the way, for anyone looking, the DDm4v7 is frequently available online for about $1050) As I was researching all sorts of AR info, I came to the conclusion that I now knew enough about them to just go ahead and put together a quality gun myself rather than purchasing a complete rifle. I did end up selling my previous AR along with a couple pistols. Here's my starting point. Spikes lowers have a very good reputation with home builders for quality and these will be my base for a pair of builds. They have sequential serial numbers too, both starting with 007, so that's nifty as well. I'm planning on the first one being 16" with midlength gas system, chrome lined bore and chamber and free float modular rail, magpul STR stock and ergo grip. I kept the cheap scope from my old AR, so that will go on this one along with some back up sights. Sights: It seems like people really like the troy sights, but I'm thinking the cheaper magpul sights might actually be a better option. They are spring loaded, so if the gun were dropped, they could just fold over and not be damaged, wheras the troys might just bend and become useless or even usable but bent out of zero without me knowing. Anyone have thoughts on this? Barrels: Taking ghost's advice, I checked into PSA and found that their chrome lined barrels come from FN, same as the pricier companies. So I will likely go with them for the barrel or complete uppers. The other thing I discovered is that it seems to be less expensive to buy a complete upper than to put one together from parts. That seems odd to me. M4 feed ramps seem pretty common now, though I don't know that they're really needed for 5.56 fmj, but I'll probably go ahead and get an upper and barrel with the feed ramp cutouts. Triggers: I read quite a bit about the different triggers and decided what would work best for me would be to just polish the standard trigger rather than going for a two stage or light single stage. For the second lower, I'm planning on a SBR, so I wrote up an NFA trust and sent paperwork in to the ATF to get my tax stamp, should be several months before I get the stamp back. More to come as these slowly go together over time.
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Post by Onimusha on Feb 19, 2014 23:31:30 GMT
Good luck with the build. I hope you invested in some brass or derlin punches.
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Feb 20, 2014 0:28:40 GMT
I don't know much about ars at all BB, but I do have the YHM front flip sight tower and rear flip sights. It has a very rugged look and feel to it with the steel construction. The set runs at $170 compared to the Troy $240. Both are lookers and have great durability. They definitely won't be damaged other than cosmetically from a drop - only way you're going to mess them up is if you really try. (assuming they're open and with no scope/reflex on top) I can't stand the magpul ones...they look horrendous. Try a LGS and see if they'll let you throw your reflex sight onto a rifle along with the magpul sights (I know shoot straight will definitely let ya). I don't know if it'll bother you with a front sight poking up from the bottom of the picture even when its folded down (I don't know if it does this and it probably depends on the reflex or scope height). You might want to consider a gas block front sight since they fold very low. Hopefully these pics help with what I mean It's about 2-3mm slightly above the rails. and some more pics of the yhm sights to help you along with choosing. I do think Troys are slightly sexier ^ these are the yankee hill ones on mine What length are you building BB? (lol nvm you've already answered that) ...and keep us updated on the progress! I'm envious - you're going to have a ton of fun.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 21, 2014 21:28:45 GMT
Thanks Onimusha, I have all sorts of bronze rod laying around if I should need a softer punch, but I think steel punches will generally suffice. Thanks for the info and pictures ghost. I'll look into the YHM sights. The magpul sights are pretty chunky but it doesn't bother me too much, though I don't think I would want them sitting way up into the field of view when closed. The cheap scope I have has a high base with an open area for viewing under the scope as well as a low base without. I'll have to see how they work. Maybe I'll do as you suggest and take the scope over to a local gun shop to try it on an AR with MBUS. I was also considering using offset sights on the 16" with scope (which seems like a spiffy combo) and then regular flip up sights on the SBR with an Aimpoint. A gas block front sight won't work for me as I was going to use a low profile gas block specifically for the purpose of extending the rail farther out for the support hand. One will be a 16" though I may change that to 18" and the SBR will be 12"
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Post by skane on Feb 22, 2014 5:33:54 GMT
Check out the ALG QMS trigger groups. Standard weight pull and function, very smooth, and inexpensive ($45). Even the hardcore AR guys at m4carbine.net will mention the ALG QMS as a good choice. You can get a Spikes LPK without FCG, and buy a ALG QMS FCG to complete it.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Feb 22, 2014 8:35:29 GMT
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 25, 2014 7:43:11 GMT
I'll check into those skane, though I was never really bothered by the standard trigger, so I suspect if I just smooth out those, I'll be good.
Thanks for the info LGMartialArts. Midway seems a bit pricy though, you can find that entire AR for sale new for the price they are asking for just the upper. I saw a nice DDm4v7 upper the other day for around $850 new online.
I'm thinking either PSA or BCM for the uppers, or maybe one from PSA and one from BCM. PSA has some fantastic sales on their CHF barreled uppers.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Mar 11, 2014 21:48:13 GMT
Here's the current state of the build of the 16" or 18" in case anyone is following this. And a thumbnail for anyone viewing with a layout that is chopping pictures. I did a color fill on both of the lowers in the logo and safe/fire markings. It's difficult to see in the photo but it is a light metallic grey with a slight purple tint. I've also very finely sanded and polished the trigger contact points. I haven't assembled the SBR lower yet but it will be the same except for having a hard plastic magpul grip. Sights: Still considering what to get for backup sights. I'm thinking maybe Troy for this one and magpul for the SBR. I figure I'll be using the back-up sights on this one when the cheap scope isn't on it, so it will need a good set. The SBR will have the aimpoint on it so it doesn't really need back-up sights for anything. But to have them on there just for the heck of it, it would make more sense to go with a cheaper set. I had thought it would be cool to eventually get into three gun shooting and so thought offset sights could be nifty for this AR. But in reality it seems unlikely I would ever have time to devote to that, so offset sights are off the list of potentials. Could always get them later if I actually end up having a use for them. BCG: I'm thinking one standard BCG and one Nickel Boron BCG so I can see the difference for myself. Charging handle: I didn't especially like the regular handle so that might be something I would upgrade as well. I like a couple of the ones which re-engineer the mechanism for support hand, single side use. Looking at the BCM gunfighter and the Rainier Arms raptor. Maybe I'll get one for one build and one for the other.
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Post by Timberwolf on Mar 17, 2014 10:12:45 GMT
I wouldn't buy a damned thing from Troy Industries. (Spit!) Did y'all forget about these things already? www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/0 ... ndustries/ That's on par with buying something from anyone still in Connecticu*t, New Yawk, or Kalifornya. Maybe worse ... :evil:
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Post by brotherbanzai on Apr 14, 2014 17:04:54 GMT
Anyone still reading this? No? Ok, well, I'll post an update anyway in case anyone want's to use the information for a future build of their own. While researching bolt carrier groups, I come across some recommendations for the Aim nickel boron bcg so I looked into it. The bolt is made from 9310 steel rather than c158 so I had to do some research on that. Seems about the same as the argument for "what's the best sword steel". Both are very good steels with 9310 having the potential to be a bit stronger if it has the optimum heat treatment. 8620 Tool Seel Enhanced Radius design (Angle Cut) Carrier with inside and out NiB Treatment 9310 Steel MPI Bolt with inside and out NiB Treatment Billet Machined Extractor with Black Insert and O-Ring upgrade Billet Machined 4140 Steel Gas Key Grade 8 Fasteners Military Specification Gas Key Staking In any case, the BCG was fairly cheap at $129.95 shipped and comes with a lifetime guarantee. Looks spiffy and should be easier to clean, which is my main interest in NiB. The complete upper came from PSA with a CHF barrel made by FN. The charging handle is the Ranier Raptor. Here is the complete rifle, minus the sights. I'll be putting the Troy folding battle sights on this one and the cheap scope I have left from my old AR. Here is the complete information on the parts, lifted from the websites: Blemished PSA 16" CHF Pencil Profile SS12G2 5.56mm 1:7- without BCG or Charging Handle (I was unable to find the blemish) 16" Barrel Mid-length Gas System "Machine Gun Steel" Cold Hammer Forged 5.56mm NATO Chamber 1 in 7" Twist Rate Chrome-lined Bore and Chamber M4 Feed ramps Midwest Industries SS12G2 Free Float Rail A2 Flash Hider 7075 Forged Upper Receiver T-Marks Barrel: A proprietary blend of cold hammer forged chrome-moly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its required use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons. The hammer forging process hardens the steel, making it more durable. In addition, the chrome process for the bore allows for a lining almost twice as thick as a standard M16 for enhanced durability. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1/7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a mid-length gas system. The pencil profile style barrel is high pressure tested, magnetic particle inspected and then phosphate coated to mil-specs. Barrel is finished off with a Midwest Industries SS12G2 12" free-float rail, low-profile gas block and an A2 flash hider. Upper: Forged 7075-T6 Flat top AR upper is hard coat anodized black for durability. Featuring M4 feedramp cuts & T-marks, these upper upper receivers are made for us right here in the USA. These uppers may have slight imperfection in the finish of the upper or the rail that will not affect function. The imperfections include, but are not limited to, forge marks under the finish, nicks, scratches, or finish irregularities. Each upper is assembled to order, and test fired to check gas function. Does not include bolt carrier group or charging handle. Palmetto State Armory Magpul STR Lower Build Kit Mil-Spec Magpul STR Stock MOE grip MOE Trigger Guard Palmetto State Armory Classic Lower Parts Kit Mil-Spec diameter buffer tube assembly Includes Mil-Spec Magpul STR Stock, MOE grip, MOE Trigger Guard, Palmetto State Armory Classic Lower Parts Kit and Mil-Spec diameter 6061 buffer tube assembly (I didn't use the MOE grip and instead used an Ergo grip) Spikes Tactical Lower Receiver (Spider, Safe/Fire) Machined from a 7075 T6 MIL-H-6088 Forging Lower Shelf Receiver MIL-A-8625F Type III Class 2 Hardcoat Anodized Finish Total cost was $905.68Still need sights though.
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Apr 14, 2014 19:55:43 GMT
"Anyone still reading this?".................yes.........I am bb! lol
Good job.......looks good.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 14, 2014 21:27:49 GMT
I always hear it should be cheaper to build then to just buy... but I dunno, after all is said and done and you get sights on there you'll be over 1k, seems to me there are a lot of good AR options under that cost. Am I missing something?
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Apr 14, 2014 22:22:00 GMT
I think you're right Sean that it does break out about even ~ reselling a custom AR is a bit problematic since a lot of them are considered "frankens". Even factory complete used ARs are pretty cheap - everyone seems to take a hit with their personal customizations :cry:
Still it looks very fun to build one. You can choose the parts and make it to your tastes. I think the rifle looks awesome BB.
I've been chasing that elusive Noveske for a while...
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Post by brotherbanzai on Apr 15, 2014 14:12:27 GMT
Thanks Dave Hey Sean, I originally had the same thought as you. I was looking at a Daniel Defense M4V7 which you can find occasionally for about $1050 (normally about $1200 online) plus tax/shipping and transfer fees. Though that gun also doesn't come with sights. The difference you're missing would be the "options" I got on this one while still coming in cheaper. This one has a Raptor charging handle, STR stock, Nickel Boron BCG, and ergo grip included in the cost. The total for the whole build, including all shipping, taxes, and transfer fees is under $906 and has a couple hundred dollars in parts I wouldn't get with the DD (crt stock, parkerized BCG, standard charging handle, moe grip). I researched all the parts pretty heavily and came to the conclusion that paying for a particular name wasn't worth the cost when the parts are of comparable quality. Hey ghost, Thanks Had I been planning on reselling, then I would have stuck with the DD. The intention on this one was to get exactly what I wanted without concern for resale value. I think it's good most of the time to consider resale value when buying larger ticket items, but at the same time, it limits how much you can potentially enjoy something. For instance my car is left totally stock so that if I decide to sell it, I will get the best return. My bike, on the other hand, is heavily customized to my personal tastes because I want to enjoy it as much as possible (still kept the stock parts though). Putting one together also gave me a very good understanding of how it all works, which I would expect will make me more confident with it.
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 15, 2014 15:58:24 GMT
Gotcha BB... I worked in the auto industry for 10 years so I know what your talking about there as far as 'aftermarket' stuff... but there is SO much great stuff out there for your car, you MUST be tempted... mine was bone stock as well, but if I had kept it (I wish I had, I miss it so bad) it would not have been for long... I was even considering selling swords for parts... ;-) Your point about putting it all together giving you a better understanding is VERY sound.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Apr 15, 2014 17:35:53 GMT
Hey Sean, it is very tempting :? I had a little Miata that I heavily customized with an eaton supercharger, intercooler, exhaust, full suspension system, etc. It was faster off the line than my S2K is. It wasn't long before it started burning a fair amount of oil. So when I got this car, I decided to keep it bone stock and not screw with it. It's an '02 with just over 42000 miles on it and I want it to last and at the same time act as a sort of emergency bank account if I ever need the money out of it There were a lot of ready made AR's that were well below what I spent on this one. But they are all pretty basic in the accessories. As I researched them more and more, I discovered all sorts of things I would want to change. The cheapest option I found was the DD m4V7 which was very close but would still need a few small changes. It was only then that I discovered I could build one comparable in quality but superior in accessories (to me) for less money.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 15, 2014 19:12:11 GMT
I had a couple miatas before my S2000 also... sounds like we like the same kinda cars.
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Post by ShooterMike on Apr 16, 2014 13:56:54 GMT
BB, I've been following this thread with interest. Thanks for keeping it going. I have some recent builds, along with action shots, that I want to get time to photo/crop and post. Just got too many irons in the fire at the moment.
Great looking rifle! I totally concurr that a home build, using premium parts, is the least expensive way to get a top-notch rifle configured exactly how you want it. That's the route I've been going for years. Now...for your next one. You know you're hooked and will have to continue. It's almost as addictive as swords. :twisted:
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Post by brotherbanzai on Apr 16, 2014 17:50:38 GMT
Hey Sean, wow that's some low mileage for a '00. I may end up selling mine to help fund the new property. You can always find another one if you look around long enough. Though an Elise would be big fun too.
Thanks ShooterMike. I can definitely see it being addictive. I already have the SBR in the works, just waiting for the tax stamp before continuing on with it. Then I saw a 300 blackout upper on sale the other day and thought, "well, I'm gonna need one of those too". Haven't even had time to shoot this one yet :lol:
I look forward to seeing your new builds when you get a chance to put pictures up.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 16, 2014 18:05:25 GMT
Yup, its official, we have the EXACT same taste in cars.
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