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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 4:12:14 GMT
Every time someone has to go and post this, I cry a little inside. I need a job.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 6:08:35 GMT
The tip of the XIIa isn't necessarily thicker, it is just more accute. And since I knew that speed is a big factor in cutting bottles, I was afraid that I might not be able to get a big sword like the XIII up to enough speed to where I could cleanly cut bottles. It just seems to me that lighter targets would require a bit more finesse to cut perfectly. Specifically I don´t know about the atrims...but type XII generally had slightly thicker tips to provide more rigidity for the trust compared to the type XIII. Also the idea that a more acute tip makes a sword more agile is a mistake. A close PoB makes a sword more agile and a more acute point tends to make the PoB go back...but that depends more on other things(hilt design, distal tapering) then an acute point. All an acute really does is make a thrust easier. Cutting a light target doesn´t need more finesse then a heavy target...the physics are still the same...just the target number is different. A good cutting biased sword will cut better then an good trust biased sword no matter what you cut...despite the fact that a trust biased sword will be more agile and have more finesse. Yes there is the geometry variance as well...but that even applies within types. So really, the question is do you want the best cutter out there...or do you want the ability to stab? If cutting is all you care about, then the XIII or XIIIa is good. If you wanna stab at all...then you really don´t have an option but to go with the XIIa.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 22, 2009 6:48:29 GMT
yup, I think Cold N has it summed up pretty well.
I have no doubts that the XIII's (especially the flaired shoulder) will out-cut any other sword on the list no matter what the target, but thrusting is certainly not their thing. now I'm sure with a good strong jab you could get that point into a target, even a water bottle but it's going to take work and may feel a little awkward. personally I wouldn't care none of the targets we typically use are satisfying to thrust anyway. I think if I wanted to do thrusting drills I'd use something other than tatami or bottles. maybe heavy cardboard or medium weight leather with a hey bail backing, or an old tire.
dang now I'm really wanting that flared XIII. damnit I cannot AFFORD to want another sword, there are too many good swords out or about to come out. I need about $5000 just to get my top handfull of favorites. but I cannot spare $5000 this week. or next week either. the week after that however. . . is the exact same sad story.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 11:50:31 GMT
If I am correct, aren't oakeshott type XIIa swords supposed to be lenticular in cross sections? So wouldn't that mean that they were still able to cut at the cross section? I don't know. The swords I am trying to choose between all look so similar. I like the way the quad fullered looks (ironically, I don't like the fullers) better than the winged shoulders. Then again, I like the accent fullered XIIa also. On the bright side, the winged shoulders XIII is in stock. Decisions, decisions. On one hand I have superior cutting, on the other I have great cutting and thrusting. I don't know which one I want!
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Post by shadowhowler on Jun 22, 2009 11:55:57 GMT
If I am correct, aren't oakeshott type XIIa swords supposed to be lenticular in cross sections? So wouldn't that mean that they were still able to cut at the cross section? I don't know. The swords I am trying to choose between all look so similar. I like the way the quad fullered looks (ironically, I don't like the fullers) better than the winged shoulders. Then again, I like the accent fullered XIIa also. On the bright side, the winged shoulders XIII is in stock. Decisions, decisions. On one hand I have superior cutting, on the other I have great cutting and thrusting. I don't know which one I want! And that, my friend, is why most of us have many, many different swords... and still want more. Different swords do different things... some feel better one way while others feel better another. If I had to get rid of my whole collection and keep just one, well, I dunno that I could do it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 12:04:19 GMT
After watching Mike cut with the XIII flared soulders for the fifth time, I have come to the conclusion that if I get a sword made by Angus Trim (and there is a 90% chance that I will) it will be the XIII with the flared shoulders. Unless I change my mind, which is likely since I am such a fickle person when it comes to making tempting choices like this. There is, however, the slim chance that I will be able to afford the Albion that I want. My final decision will not be made until I am done working. In the mean while I will continue to gather information. I still need to know how much a custom pommel will cost, and if it will change the weight and balance of the blade.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 12:32:03 GMT
You can't go wrong with the Kriegschwert.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 13:31:33 GMT
Which Albion would you buy if you had the money?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 16:48:26 GMT
I particularly like the Baron, the Steward, and the Duke (in that order). I am tempted to buy someone's mint condition Knight, but I can only have one sword for an entire year, and I am not looking for a single handed sword. Next year I might get a single hander, but I doubt that I will right now. I'm probably not going to get an Albion now because first of all, I might now have the money, and second of all I heard that they really don't cut better than the Atrim line.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 17:48:49 GMT
Yes, they don't cut better. They are more detailed, historical and better looking, but they don't cut better.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 22, 2009 18:03:14 GMT
Jonathan, I thought one of your primary considerations was the ability to use the sword with one hand? Did I miss something?
If so, I suggest you shy away from any sword with a grip longer than 8 inches, and 7 would be better. When you try using a sword with a longer grip in one hand, the length of the grip works very hard against you. The distance of the pommel away from the hand makes the sword, any sword, move much slower than an equal size&weight single hander. And effectively using that ATrim MM Flared Shoulder Type XIIIa or either a Baron or Duke from Albion would be VERY CHALLENGING to say the least.
Of the ones you've mentioned, the Albion Steward, the ATrim MM Triple-fuller XIII, and the ATrim MM Accent Fuller type XIIa are the only ones that I would be comfortable using in one hand.
It seems like you really lean toward the Accent Fuller XIIa. That would be a very nice choice. But in the end, whatever you decide will likely be good. You have narrowed it down to some very nice choices already.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2009 0:35:56 GMT
I am willing to sacrifice one handed comfortablility for complete two - handed control. I was hoping that I could "have my cake and eat it too", so to speak. I need the grip to be at least 7 inches just to comfortably grip it with both hands, since I am 5'11 and have slightly larger than average hands. I like the way that the XIIa accent fullered looks better than the others, but if I MUST sacrifice aesthetics for performance, I will. Does anybody have an XIIa made by AT that you know? I want a blade that is actually made by AT that resembles the blade on the Kriegschwert. Judging from the pictures on CF's website, all the XIIAs have tips that are smaller than the one on the Kriegschwert. I would go ahead and get the Kriegschwert, but it is made in China by somebody who is NOT Angus Trim, and is obviously not as good as the real ATs.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 23, 2009 2:08:21 GMT
I believe the Kriegschwert and AT304S blades are based on the Legacy Line AT1415. The AT1415 is one heck of a sword, though it is pretty light and flexible. Not really a true "warsword."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2009 2:22:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2009 2:23:37 GMT
That's interesting, because one of the guys that reviewed the Kriegschwert called it a warsword. I guess that going by the pictures on the website isn't a good idea.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 23, 2009 2:52:08 GMT
That's interesting, because one of the guys that reviewed the Kriegschwert called it a warsword. I guess that going by the pictures on the website isn't a good idea. The Krieg could be called a warsword, in that is has a long grip, a long blade, and is cut-oriented and reasonably beefy... At least by "real sword" standards that is. "Warsword" is one of those terms that means different things to different people, at different times. The link Luka posted to the AT1563 Lady Restita shows what would be called a "warsword" by some folks. I have an AT1563, and I think of it as a very long, relatively light longsword along the lines of a judicial dueling sword of the German tradition. It's 4-5 inches longer and over half a pound lighter than an Albion Baron (which I definitely consider a "WARSWORD"). ;D Meh... a lot of misleading symantics sometimes, this world of swords...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2009 3:00:47 GMT
I trust you, since you have an extremely large and reliable amount of experience when it comes to swords. I think that you have a pretty good idea on what I want. If the 1313 is more of a beefy, heavy-hitting sword than the Kriegschwert, then that would probably be a warsword. I don't really consider the Kriegschwert to be a "warsword" now that I think about it, although it could be to some people.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jun 23, 2009 3:18:04 GMT
I dont think it's unusual for anyone to cal the Kriegschwert a War Sword, considering that's it's name. Krieg directly translates to War, and Schwert to Sword. So it's name is War Sword, it's hard not to call it that...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2009 3:19:57 GMT
I forgot about that. The plot thickens...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2009 5:58:48 GMT
If I am correct, aren't oakeshott type XIIa swords supposed to be lenticular in cross sections? So wouldn't that mean that they were still able to cut at the cross section? I don't know. The swords I am trying to choose between all look so similar. I like the way the quad fullered looks (ironically, I don't like the fullers) better than the winged shoulders. Then again, I like the accent fullered XIIa also. On the bright side, the winged shoulders XIII is in stock. Decisions, decisions. On one hand I have superior cutting, on the other I have great cutting and thrusting. I don't know which one I want! Yes type XII are lenticular tipped...but the thickeness of any sword doesn't have to be the same. How thick the tip should be depends on quite a few factors...but generally speaking type XII have thicker tips then type XIII because type XII need it for the thrusting. Also just because a type XV's tip is bad for cutting doesn't mean it CAN'T cut. Just like a type XIII can thrust if you REALLY had to. It's a matter of what you need to overcome...or in modern times, what you want . As for them looking similar...well yes until you study the swords for some time, swords do tend to do that. It's better then japanese swords though (even I have trouble with those once they start breaking down the different era of the shinogi-zukuri form). Anyways, I'd contact christian about the pommel...who know, he may have a scent stopper pommel lying around that somebody switched out for a wheel pommel. As for the pommel changing the dynamics of the blade...yes it will...which is why you want one as close to the orginal pommel's weight if you wanna keep the same performance of the sword. If you wanna tweak the performance of the sword, a small change to the pommel and hilt is a good way to do it...but it should be small or you may end up ruining the harmonics of the blade. Having a sword with a node in the middle of your hand is no fun (it'll ruin your elbows). I'm sure Mr. Fletcher can modify the sword without a glitch though so no fret on that count . As for having your cake and eating it too...no such thing exist. It's all about trade offs. You trade cutting ability for stabbing. You trade power for agility. So you need to know what you want...which is hard when it's your first sword.
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