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Post by dchisenh on Jul 12, 2017 4:24:09 GMT
Sev, I just went back and read your backstories on the Temple Nimbus, Notorikon, etc....really, really awesome! I wouldn't want to change a thing about them! When I previously referred to an Academy for the study of Arcane Magic, that could reside in either a rebuilt (or partially rebuilt, rebuilding?) Notorikon...since it was the seat of the study of magic in a previous era. Or, just as likely, it could reside in the Aleutian Empire's capital, no need to rewrite ANYTHING you wrote during the initial submission!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 12, 2017 4:06:43 GMT
Well Amigo, some of my monsters depend on magic....but not "spells" like a wizard of sorcerer would use, some monsters (I.e Dragons) have "spell-like" abilities and where they draw their magic from is pseudo dependent on your systems.....also Illithids are POWERFUL Psionicists. So there are some big things we're going to have to collaborate on. What about using the cosmos as a kind of never-ending energizer battery for mages. Witches, Clerics, and even Paladins/AntiPaladins draw magic from a deity or that deity's Avatar. Elemental creatures, water weirds, Sea Elves, water elemental could draw their power from oceans, streams, and if VERY powerful the 3/4 of the body that is made up of water AGAINST an opponent. On Avatar the Last Airbender, people drew unique powers STRAIGHT from the tap so to speak. Just some thoughts. You guys are doing AWESOME so far! Keep it up fellas, GREAT potential here, I can feel it in my third nipple!! 😁 Djinn and ou other artists we need preliminary sketches....not just for weapons. Staves of Power, wands of Might, and rings, earrings, and necklaces filled to the brim with attack/defensive/healing magic?! Mayhap even some Relics or Artifacts of a bygone age....forgotten, but not any weaker than they were a millennia ago. Those monsters are perfectly compatible with the ideas presented so far! For example, Dragon's are basically an order of magnitude more powerful than other beings below them in the world. In Paul's hierarchy: Gods created the world (basically the gods in a round-about way that provide the energy for Divination magic, Anima Mea that created EVERYTHING and Anima Vestra that can shape it), Gods went to war, Age of Dragons (since they're below gods but above others, when they provide their energy to their devotees or even just use it themselves, they have a TON! Anima Mea of the dragons is almost limitless and their capability for Anima Vestra can be devastating. They're fully capable of powering their own magic, probably everything just below what a god could do), Age of Elves and Dwarves (since we're dealing with mortals now, they have a larger ability to generate Anima Mea and use Anima Vestra than lesser races, but several magnitudes lower than dragons and immeasurably lower than gods), Age of Man (base levels of Anima Mae and Anima Vestra usage). I'm not sure what Illithds are, so they could be a sort of 'higher' race equivalent to elves and dwarves enhanced Anima usage, but on the psychic side of the continuum. Witches, warlocks, anti-paladins, can draw their power through Divination magic from their deity's energy the same way a cleric, priest, or paladin can (Anima Mea of the gods). No problem there! Elementals, in all the variations they can come in, likely are the product of a deity's Anima Vestra...A fire elemental born of fire. As the fire elemental uses magic, it's likely limited to using the Anima Mae it was endowed with when created when it's out of it's element or able to become much stronger when surrounded by the Anima Vestra of it's creation. Like I said earlier, I really like Sev's system of categorizing magic and, consequentially, energy usage...it has a very, very broad ability to accommodate all sorts of magic!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 12, 2017 3:48:07 GMT
To answer your question, Temple Nimbus was heavily featured in my ninth submission, page 8 or 9 of the original submissions thread. Temple Nimbus is a mobile, flying city (similar to Columbia from Bioshock Infinite, but smaller) built above Notarikon in order to spread the knowledge of magic across the globe. Unfortunately, disaster happened and Temple Nimbus could not fulfil its original purpose. Around 3 years after the disaster, Temple Nimbus was largely abandoned by its populace. Only the Notarikon Sentinels (basically steampunk automatons) posted in the city and a single person who lost her family remained in the city in stasis. Centuries later, she woke up to find that the world had changed, the Sentinels gained sentience and she was appointed as Temple Nimbus' leader. Of course, all of this happened in my short story. If Temple Nimbus would be better suited as the religious center/center of divine magic practice, then I'll consider it. Anything else could be retconned after consideration. No need to change the Temple Nimbus, it could still be part of the advancement of Arcane magic in the Empire, perhaps the woman who is the leader of the Temple Nimbus is also the head of the Academy? (I'm going to go re-read your submission story, there was a lot to skim through in that thread and I'm sorry I missed it!) It would make sense then that the High Temple in the Empire be at the capital. Any ideas on what to call it?
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 12, 2017 3:15:18 GMT
Yep, yet another wall of text above! In reference to Vincent and Sev's posts prior to mine, I think the key limiter to magic in this is energy. It's being defined at various times according to it's source (Anima Mae, Anma Vestra, Divine, Dragon, 'The Mind', the Lich King). With practice one can either generate greater pools to draw from (internally as Anima Mae or externally Anima Vestra) or with greater devotion one's deity or dragon could reward their faith with greater deeds. Since the mental/psychic talents are innate, practice can help to strengthen or hone one's skills a little, but not by much since the initial ability comes so freely at birth...a trade off to keep the abilities from being too OP. The Lich King could derive his power from the undead themselves, the greater number he controls, the greater his power becomes. The only thing keeping him from taking over the world is his neutral nature and the knowledge that should he become a threat to the world, the world would likely unite against him. I think the other basic principle to keep things from getting too outlandish is just a general acknowledgement that in order for this to work we all have to be on equal footing; no one saying "I'm the Lord of War! I blast the planet with a death ray and everyone but me dies!". Just a basic respect for each other's stories and ideas.
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 12, 2017 3:03:06 GMT
...... I just realized that Transmutation could be seriously OP. I need to set the limits, maybe a variation of the laws in FMA. Oh I'm also gonna need help on developing the 'Non-Imperial' definition of magic and how 'Non-Imperials' use magic... Transmutation could be easily abused...plus, I'm having a hard time figuring out how that fits into your Anima Mae/Vestra definitions as well. Maybe we could put a pin in that for the time being. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ I REALLY think you nailed Imperial magic, even the name Anima Mae/Vestra continues the Latin/Roman connection! It does a good job of encapsulating their world view, internal vs. external, Empire vs. Everyone Else. I think having the Arcane School represented by Arch-mages of the Academy at Notorikon vs. the Divination School represented by the Priests and Monks of (is the Temple Nimbus your religious center/school?...I tried scanning back but missed where you defined it) could be an interesting rivalry as both have an envoy as an advisor to he Emperor that are always disagreeing with each other, since they have similar but differing views on magic and at times of war have to set aside their differences and fight side-by-side, naturally complementing each other. Like I mentioned in my notes on your Magic 2.0 post, I think the broader definitions of how magic is powered could help give some extra flavor to how the various groups view and use magic. Using your divisions of Arcane, Divination, Oriental(though I think Dragon would fit the context a little better), Psychic/Psioncs, and Alternative (essentially the 'other' category) can help define the Imperial vs Non-Imperial takes on magic. Imperials tend to view magic through the lenses of Arcane and Divination; either traditional magic powered through Anima Mae and Anima Vestra or Divine magic granted to adherents to various gods and divinities in their pantheon. Additionally, since the center of magical studies is based in the Empire AND due to their conquest their deities have the largest devotion, both their Arcane and Divination schools are some of the strongest in this world. Dragon magic could be either outlawed or viewed with suspicion within the Empire. Psychic abilities could also likewise be shunned, considered "below TRUE magic practiced by the Mages and the Priests", leading users to hide their skills, causing users to be cast out into the Badlands or something like that (good material for a backstory!). The people of Lhasa view magic through the framework of their Golden Dragon; powers granted to those who study and devote themselves to him. Their powers can allow them to perform the same sort of "magic" adherents of the Arcane and Divination schools do, but perhaps with an Eastern flavor. Their "fireball" spell might be gold like the dragon powering the spell instead of red like an Arcane based mage might produce, their healing might be more of a "chi restoration" than a "divine benediction", though the result is healing nonetheless. The people of Lhasa might not even know of the Arcane or Divination schools of magic, believing all magic is granted through the Golden Dragon, though the spells are functionally equivalent. Psychic abilities in this culture might be viewed as a "Dragon's Gift" and considered a rare blessing. Conversely, the Northmen may prefer brute force to magic in a traditional sense, due to their harsh landscape and need for strength above all else. They may worship or revere the Dragons of the Abandoned Forest, perhaps a few dragons have come to interact with the Northmen over time, granting them some of their power for some reason known only to the dragons themselves. Maybe the extent of their magic is limited to a few types of "war magic", additional armor as "Dragon's Scales" from the abjuration category, "Berserker's Rage" as an Enchantment - Compulsion, and a few others like that. People born there with Psychic abilities might end up being used as pawns for whatever dragons they interact with, identified at a young age and 'gifted' to the dragon, once again..for reasons only the dragons know! I could see other groups (cultures and races) all having their own pantheon of gods and deities who's power has diminished as the Empire has grown, but had been the source for their Divination based magic. There are still practitioners today, with the Tuath De's nature worshiping druids and Stormwater's shaman (worshiping perhaps Nordic-inspired gods) still retaining a decent amount of power, but the lesser gods of Escia and Pomedica so weakened because their devotees have been converted by the Empire, are either unknown, forgotten, or reduced to the status of a mere immortal, walking the earth a shadow of their former selves... Also, other races have their own deities/demons/gods they worship to power their Divination based magic. Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Trolls and similar races may share a "God of Death" or other such malevolent entity (likely due to the deity's desire for more devotees and therefore power) and can occasionally be united in that aspect. They may also still have smaller race or tribe specific gods, perhaps a Goblin "God of Wealth" that can grant them additional luck, but at a cost...or even a tribe of Orcs who worship a particular demon living in a cave in the Demon's Teeth Mountains! The elves can be tricky to define...EVERYONE loves elves and there have been many, many iterations of them over the years, I'd rather see how others here would like to frame elves as before we try to narrow down their system of magic. We could make it "elf" specific as a nature-based Alternative (other) school, or hybrids of the others, I don't know. Likewise Dwarves, though I imagine they'd be either more elemental based (perhaps Arcane with a strength towards elemental based Conjuration magic, creating fire/ice/lightning or a Nordic or "earth mother"-based Divination), but could shun magic completely and prefer ingenuity and strength, don't know yet since they're also beloved characters people tend to want to view one way or the other. And last but not least, Necromancy in the Land of the Dead! This has some really cool ideas associated with it already from what folks have posted on here, I really think this Alternative magic can really make this world stand out. As the rest of the magic is based on various energy sources (self, surroundings, deities, dragons, the mind), having the Lich King as the source of the Necromancy in this world makes sense. He doesn't likely need to expend any energy to control the dead, perhaps obtaining his power FROM the dead, since he now controls a portion of their souls. I could see his ability to raise the dead have a geographical component, outside the Land of the Dead the dead don't tend to rise, but that's more of condition of the reach of the Lich King's power. Perhaps the first sign the Lich King is on the march is that the dead stop staying dead! That's a hell of a psychological advantage to an Army of the Dead on the march! There could also still be zombie mages/psychics, though rare, especially powerful ones may be given some of their free will in exchange for their service in the Lich King's legion. Perhaps that's what a necromancer is in this world, a mage or psychic that has signed over his soul in exchange for the power to influence the dead while he's alive in exchange for his service when he dies. His ability to 'control the dead' isn't actually his, he's just channeling some of the Lich King's power, at the expense of later serving the Lich King. Anyway, lots of possibilities! I hope we can keep the basic structure of magic fairly broad in this early stage, giving folks an opportunity to create what kind of character they want in this world. I don't know much about anime so I don't see how the Full Metal Alchemist deal would work, but maybe someone else can help with that!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 11, 2017 21:38:46 GMT
I had to wiki him. I'd never heard of him before, so to answer your question, nope ! To answer both you and dchisenh , it was a poor attempt at a joke. By way of explanation: Edward Elric regularly uses transmutation to change the forearm plate on his automail arm (a highly advanced prosthetic) into a large dagger and has, on several occasions throughout his series, created large stone formations out of the ground, such as in the gifs below: Alchemy in the series has one main law, Equivalent Exchange, which states you have to give up something of equal value to whatever you're attempting to achieve. It has two subsets: the Law of Conservation of Mass and the Law of Natural Providence. Conservation of Mass is pretty much the same as the real physical law in that mass can't really be destroyed or created, only transformed; in one instance, Edward makes a massive pillar of stone, but it gets progressively weaker the higher he goes because there's just not enough mass in it. Meanwhile, the Law of Natural Providence states that something can only be changed into something else with that property; i.e., water can only be changed into something that shares its properties, such as ice or steam. Or, to use your own example, milk to cheese. More dramatically, it could be used to change graphite into diamonds. Anyway, long story short, I was making a joke on the fact that your example of how transmutation could work is similar to how it works in Fullmetal Alchemist and Edward Elric, being the protagonist, is the most well known character from the series. Ah, no problem Vincent! I'm not familiar with anime, so it's all over my head!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 11, 2017 19:56:14 GMT
Since Paul mentioned this earlier:
Naturally, being generated by members of a sword community, concentrating on metallurgy, steel sources and types (including magical steels and ways to enchant weapons) will be very important. LOVE the idea of the Badlands having the last known deposits of the "Unobtanium" that the Empire uses to forge its magic weapons. The concept of various warlords (not all of them human) vying for control of the resource is an awesome one..
I think it makes sense to have a few types of 'magical' metals for weapon making and perhaps some visual changes associated with weapon enchantments (preferably ones the real-life forge could recreate).
If we stick with the "unobtainium" deposit in the center of the Badlands, as the last known large deposit from an ancient asteroid (or was it a Fallen God?, Primordial?), we can stick with the story that it's scarcity and tensile strength limits it to short robust blades (short swords, daggers, gladius) or long, thin blades (rapiers, estocs, or even the end of a pilum). It could be characterized by it's luster, resulting in blades with a mirror polish. There could be several theories for it's magical properties against the undead. Perhaps it somehow 'taints' or 'severs' the Lich King's control, maybe it contains a background radiation of sorts that interferes with magic. I think if we limit this metal as having anti-undead/zombie abilities we can use it as a rationale for tension between the Empire (who equips it's ever-growing legions with it) and the Lich King (who likely outlaws it's possession in the Land of the Dead).
Similarly, this growing arms race could see the Lich King creating his own weapons, perhaps out of Dark Steel. This could be diametrically opposed to "unobtainium", causing both to explode on impact like the two poles of a magnet coming into contact. It could be visually represented by it's inky blackness, in contrast to the mirror brightness of "unobtainium" (realistically it could be created by a black oxide finish or a dark acid stain of some sort). These weapons could be limited in size as well, being forged into kopeshes and scythes in the style of the Land of the Dead. The creation of these anti-"unobtainium" swords might be known only by the Lich King and those around him in the Land of the Dead, a closely guarded state secret, but occasionally being seen out and about in the world, wielded by his most trusted soldiers.
Dragon Steel (pattern welded steel) could be used in particularly mythic weapons, handed down for generations or the official weapons of the King/Warlord/High Priest. They could be any length, since they used the fire of dragons to fuse both "unobtainium" and regular steel, to overcome it's inherent structural limitations. These weapons might have additional powers given to them, based on enchantments etched into their patterning, giving them not only added power against the undead but other adversaries as well.
Paul, what other sort of metallurgical flourishes could BCI produce that could denote particular sword or steel properties?
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 11, 2017 19:13:26 GMT
Transmutation: Changes the properties of some creature/people, thing, or condition. (Sev, I'm a little confused on this as well. This could open the door to all kinds of craziness I'm not sure would fit well into this architecture. Maybe you could explain it a little more so I could see how you envision it to work.)
I took this to be changes like a low level changing the color of a white horse to blue. At a higher level, giving that same horse a prehensile tail or making it carnivorous and adding fangs or claws. At even greater levels giving it flight with working wings. Change to people could include permanently or temporarily changing ones appearance up to giving them the ability to climb straight up walls ala Peter Parker. Transmutation of things could be at low level changing wheat into bread, milk to cheese, a broken iron shackle into an iron dagger and up to higher level by making a tree shape into a treehouse or a small hill or mountain into a tower. Complex changes would require higher levels, more time and be quite draining on the caster. This was just my take on it. I think I have a better idea of what y'all are meaning here. I think something like this has a strong potential for abuse; having people converting a bag of nails into a bag of gold and destroying the economy, leading to people "creating" whatever they need to get out of a jam without any consequences.. "hey, that locked door is blocking our path, here, let me transmute this pine cone into a hand grenade". If there were SERIOUS consequences to something like "biomancy", having only a few practitioners and having any changes as a consequence of time altering directed mutations.. basically exchanging some of your life span in exchange for various biological enhancements, I could see this as a possibility. Perhaps someone could bargain with a dragon or a deity for changes like dragon scales or angel wings, or some elves may be so connected to nature they may have plant or animal features, like leaves or horns in some cases. I could see some artifacts being able to create certain changes to it's user, granting the ability to breathe underwater, fly, quenching thirst and hunger, etc As far as actual matter transformation, like converting lead into gold or iron shackles into a dagger, there may be other ways around that. A skilled arcane based illusionist could fool those around him into thinking the lead coins he was using were gold, having the illusion drop after he leaves town. Someone with the ability to manipulate fire through various schools could melt and reshape iron. There's likely a way to justify all sorts of things using the framework mentioned above! Just don't be crazy!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 11, 2017 18:41:59 GMT
I didn't know who that was either, I had to look him up too. I'm not sure how something like that fits into this framework..
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 11, 2017 17:24:25 GMT
Awesome Paul! Thanks for the updated map and extra guidance, I've gotta re-write a bit of the short story/intro for my character, but now I have a better idea where to go next!
Sev, your Anima Mae/Vestra nomenclature sounds to me like how the Empire would classify magic. Maybe you could write the "Acadamy Arcanum" that is taught at the center for arcane magic in the Empire, Notorikon. I'm could see a rivalry of sorts between the Academy and the Empire's religious center teaching Divine magic. There probably are a few priests or clerics at the Academy to aid in the instruction of Divine magic there, and there are likely a few traditional mages at the holy center; but by and large I bet they clash like oil and water.
So, here's my notes on this system, which I like a lot and think could work well for this world (the one thing I switched up is what is a "school" of magic and what is a "category" of magic, I think it's a little easier to understand this way though):
MAGIC SYSTEM Version 2.0 Work in Progress
Anima Mea/Anima Vestra (This is how the Empire defines magic, in Lhasa they may refer to it as Chi/Energy, the Northmen may call it "Dragon Power", the elves might not call it anything at all but just view it as a part of nature)
The definition of magic in the world. Anima Mea manipulates reality by using one's own mana/soul/essence. Using your soul/essence/mana/ would be required perhaps in different amounts and with different risks for certain tasks and different spells. For instance; transferring some of your life energy to heal someone else likely isn't too taxing on you in the long term, provided your rest up afterwards OR if one had trained in how to do it, it might not tax them at all.
Anima Vestra is more parasitic as it uses the energy from the environment, plants, animals or people. It was invented much later after Anima Mea. The reason why it was invented is because the amount of energy used for a spell is equivalent to how much would be used to perform magical action manually. You can order magic to raise an especially-heavy boulder, but it would quite likely kill you from overextension if one isn’t experienced enough or doesn’t have enough casters to divide the task, unless you outsource it to some nearby plants and animals and don't mind them dying. Anima Vestra could be seen as a short-cut to mastery of magic as it allows the use of higher-tier spells for a moderately trained caster.
Using Anima too much could actually be harmful to oneself or the environment, respectively.
Schools of Magic:
Arcane: Magic that seems more western in nature. The most common type of magic that anyone can learn with time and effort. (This more traditional type of magic is found throughout the world, but the apex of it's study is Notorikon in the Empire. Their mages, lead by a council of arch-mages, consider themselves the pinnacle of knowledge and the first and final word on all things Magic. This puts them at odds with the religious orders that teach their Divine based magic, they look on Spiritual/Oriental (perhaps we should call it "Dragon" magic?) with suspicion, and view psychic/psionic abilities with disdain, considering them 'parlor tricks' and not "true" magic.)
Divine: Restorative or healing spells used by priests/religious groups. Service to a deity required. (The energy required for this type of magic doesn't come from oneself or the external environment, but instead comes from the deity who a practitioner is devoted to. The ability to perform these spells is determined by the will of the deity and is in relation to the user's devotion...giving them the ability to perform small tasks like minor healing or curing in a deity's name with relative ease and without using their own energy or in the most pious able to call upon the full might of the heavens in a rare and extraordinary circumstances, perhaps at the cost of one's own life. The various deities in this world have their own power based primarily on the total devotion of their believers...this gives the Empire's primary god [or gods] great power, smaller groups like Tuathe De's smaller pantheon gods have had their power diminish over time as their believers are converted to the Empire, leaving their small caste of druidic shamanistic priests with minor influence and abilities. There could be 'death cults' who worship various smaller deities and demons, letting their followers call upon them to power their spells. The fact that this type of magic relies on the will of a third party, the deity in question, instead of being provided by or used by the caster is the main separation between the Arcane magic users and Divine magic users.)
Spiritual: Oriental magic using talismans seemingly more eastern in nature. (I think this could be more broadly defined as "Dragon Magic" [and potentially less offensive]. This could be calling upon the will of a Dragon to perform these deeds. This could be based primarily in Lhasa, though there could be some minor, Nordic based variants used by the Northmen who devote themselves to the Dragons of the Abandoned Forest. This sort of magic is one of balance. Instead of relying solely on the will/power/mana of a deity, the Dragon is the conduit for using your own will/power/mana or that of the environment around you. Basically, instead of learning to manipulate your own energy or that in the environment, you learn to use the Dragon's power to manipulate them. This requires some devotion to various Dragons but also learning how to 'ask' for certain outcomes...the Northmen may chant, pray and call a "War Feast" to honor a particular Dragon before heading off into battle, hoping to become infused with his might while a monk in Lhasa may meditate to become one in harmony with a particular dragon, perhaps the Golden Dragon down there, in order to perform his feats.)
Alternative: Spells that fall outside of the other types of spells. (This could be similar to what the elves use and for odd unexplained 'abilities' that occasionally pop up. I could see the elves using a sort of 'psychic/spiritual hybrid' to communicate with the natural world, enabling them to perform actions that may appear like magic but is more of a dialog between the elements than actually altering them by will or mana. I'm sure there are many practitioners of traditional Arcane magic among the ranks of the elves, due to their extended time to study it, likewise their harmony with nature is akin to the Spiritial or Dragon based magic, but more ancient and generally 'nature' based...more in tune with the entire world.)
Psychic/Psionic: Mental-type 'magic'. Requires no spells nor incantation. Cannot be learned, instead categorized as talent from birth. (I think certain aspects of this type of magic could be related to Dragon magic, insofar as a devotee of a particular dragon, especially the Golden Dragon, can be granted some psychic-like abilities through meditation or rigorous training. Still, most of those with these abilities are born with them. Like you said, there's no ritual or practice involved other than to strengthen or hone them; they don't require any use of the practitioner's will/power/mana; but they generally aren't overly powerful and decrease in power the further away from the user [the source of the ability]. For instance, your telekinetic and telepathic abilities decrease in strength and capability over distance, though you can train to extend it, as you do you begin to use your own power/will/mana and that becomes the limiter.
Since there's some interest here in psychic/psionics, could folks here list what type of abilities they'd like to see fall under this category?)
Categories of Magic:
Abjuration: Defensive magic. They create physical or magical barriers, negate magical or physical abilities, harm trespassers or even banish the subject of the spell to another realm/plane of existence (I can see these types of spells taught at military academies by warrior priests, either using a spiritual based magic through devotion to a God of War or a God of Soldiers; an Arcane version of this type of power taught by Arcane Knights, Spellswords, Warmages, etc.; practitioners of Dragon magic could call upon their benefactor to grant them "Dragon's Scales" or other sort of defensive wards or bolsters going into battle; and of course the elves and dwarves could call upon an elemental "stoneskin" or "barkskin" type ward using their magic.)
Conjuration: Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or create objects or effects on the spot (creation). Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands. (So, this category of magic is used by almost all schools of magic in some shape or form. The only differences between the schools at this point is the source of energy for these feats; oneself, the external environment, a deity, a dragon, the user's mind or the natural world itself)
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Divination: Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, to predict the future, to find hidden things, and to foil deceptive spells. (This could be a specialty of Dragon magic, especially the Golden Dragon of Lhasa, using a Dragon's ancient knowledge to see hidden insights through time and space. Likewise, it could occasionally be granted by a divinity for a user of Divine magic, if the divinity sees fit. There's probably a bit of an occult association in those who use these abilities with Arcane magic, kind of a 'dark art' that isn't looked upon well since what's foreseen doesn't always occur and may actually fool the user, probably the provenance of warlocks and witches. It could occur in certain people naturally, as a psychic ability, but those people tend to believe at an early age they're being influenced by 'the gods' or 'the dragons' and naturally migrate to those schools of magic depending on their culture.)
Enchantment: Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior. All enchantments are mind-affecting spells. Two types of enchantment spells grant you influence over a subject creature.
• Charm: Changes how the subject views the caster (This could be the provenance of more benevolent deities granted to their followers practicing Divine magic, for the most part, with the occasional follower of a dark deity using this to seduce a target and lead them to their doom. It could also be used by a subset of psychic users that can change how they're viewed by others, either physically or emotionally. This is also likely the method elves use to interact with the natural world, an innate connection to the world and living creatures, a passive 'charm' of sorts. Arcane users don't tend to use this ability as much since they tend to see the world as something they can change on their own, at will...why attempt to charm someone when you can cast a fireball at them?)
• Compulsion: Forces the subject to act in some manner or changes the way their mind works (This could be a specialty of the bellicose and capricious Dragons of the North and is responsible for the "Berserker" boon granted to the Northmen before going into battle; likewise Divine magic granted by malevolent deities are particularly prone to forcing a target to harm themselves or others. It's probably not practiced much by the Arcane school, though individuals born with the psychic ability to exert their wills on others to one extent or another can learn to supplement that ability with other Arcane abilities, often becoming particularly powerful witches and warlocks.) .
Evocation: Evocation spells manipulate energy or tap an unseen source of power to produce a desired end. In effect, they create something out of nothing. Many of these spells produce spectacular effects, and evocation spells can deal large amounts of damage. (Sev, can you clarify this category a bit? I'm not sure exactly what you mean here so I'm not sure how it's viewed in the various schools.)
Illusion: Deceives the senses or the minds of others. They cause subjects to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises or remember things that never happened. (This is likely how Arcane users view enchantments. Instead of attempting to change someone's mind or behavior, they use their power to create an illusory deception. There can be a whole sub-discipline at the Academy that specializes in this, with the most proficient having ties to the Thieves Guild and other shady characters. Perhaps the Archmage of Illusion appears to be a beautiful sorceress but in reality is an ancient, wizened witch that is just THAT good at illusions! Likewise, I can see an occasional psychic having the ability to do this innately, but they probably tend to gravitate away from the main schools of magic and more towards a thief or rogue lifestyle.)
Necromancy: Manipulates the power of death, unlife and the life force. Not publicly available. (I like the idea this is the domain of the Lich King. This particular category isn't Arcane, Divine, Dragon, or Psychic, but is an example of Alternative magic. The Lich King doesn't use his own power/soul/mana to reanimate the dead, instead he has the 'gift' to 'restore' the soul of the departed, minus what made them who they were, completely subservient to his will. This may be an ability that he can use within the domain of the Land of the Dead, raising the dead there and then able to control them throughout the continent; either rented out as 'slaves' or as an Army of the Dead, as needed. Perhaps in order to get an undead bodyguard, which is so costly only the most elite of the aristocracy can afford it, you can also sign your body over to the Lich King, so after you die your corpse is reanimated by him where ever you are in the world, being in the Land of the Dead isn't required.)
Transmutation: Changes the properties of some creature/people, thing, or condition. (Sev, I'm a little confused on this as well. This could open the door to all kinds of craziness I'm not sure would fit well into this architecture. Maybe you could explain it a little more so I could see how you envision it to work.)
All in all, I like your categories and schools Sev, I can see them being the basis for whatever sort of magic the storytellers here on the forum can come up with.
Likewise, if anyone else here can think of other types of magic or abilities they would like to see but haven't been included, feel free to post and we can see if we can get them to fit!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 11, 2017 1:51:06 GMT
How about a column for geography and one for characters? Aside from the Kings, Queens and some high ranking folks, I'd leave most of the characters to the individual members telling their tales. I agree. Having a small handful of 'main' characters other people can reference while being able to create their own minor characters makes it easiest for folks to craft their own stories. I know some people included a backstory in the previous thread for their weapon and/or character, perhaps we need a centralized thread or sub-forum to post all of our backstories and biographies. Paul and/or mods, does that sound ok?
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 10, 2017 19:00:10 GMT
They could use mammoth tusks for skids and use mammoth hides for sails, that would look pretty awesome. If the ship has one large tusk as a central rail underneath and has a tusk on either side as an outrigger, it could slide right from the land into the water, amphibious assault specialists! And during winter when the land is snow covered and the wind blows just right, they could pillage the coasts, sailing directly from the sea onto the land, giving coastal residents another reason to fear the long, cold winter nights!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 10, 2017 4:09:31 GMT
...and since magic is hard to define, I'd suggest a basic tenant be that the root of all magic come from a user's soul/essence/will/etc. manipulating the fabric of reality. This allows for a user to either possess this talent innately or through rigorous training, a special event, etc. while also allowing for a very, very wide range of 'types' of magic. For example, a monk character could train for years in a monastery to learn to move objects with his mind allowing for a telekinetic type magic, a young pyromancer could just be born with the ability to control/create fire but at the basis of it is their 'will' exciting molecules to such a high energy state they burst into flame and their ability to control that energy state as their 'pyromancy'...allowing a traditional 'mage' character to also be able to do the same thing, but though study and practice. Within the framework of Sevicler's magic structure, the Anima Mae/Animal Vestra could be thought of as 'using' your soul/essence/will to perform higher powered reality manipulation, in the vein of 'matter and energy are neither created or destroyed', you're converting some of your energy to perform this feat, which is a non-infinite resource. Likewise, having this type of soul/essence/will manipulation of reality as the basis for 'magic', it's open to anyone's interpretation of use. Some could take a traditional 'studious mage in his tower reading ancient tomes and scrolls' method or a chance interaction with a god/angel/demon/ghost/object/etc 'awakening' this ability, or just being born with it. Likewise, it's open to every group/culture/individual to define those abilities in whatever system they see fit...so Sevicler's system could be how his character or group could define 'magic' while someone else's character could come from a culture that defines 'magic' differently, or even thinks it's all the same and 'there is no magic'! Wow. I actually like your ideas on Anima Mae/Anima Vestra better than my own. Instead of being a magic discipline, Anima Mae/Vestra could be the definition of magic instead; using soul/essence/mana in order to manipulate reality. Anima Mae uses one's own energy while Anima Vestra is more parasitic as it uses the energy from the environment, plants, animals or people. Using Anima too much could actually be harmful to oneself or the environment, respectively. Now I have the sudden urge to start over and create another magic system, perhaps something more universal. I think your system (and most descriptions of magic) could be folded into the reality manipulation I mentioned earlier pretty easily. It looks like you've broken it down between energy sources; internal vs external. Using your soul/essence/mana/etc. would be required perhaps in different amounts and with different risks for certain tasks, for instance transferring some of your life energy to heal someone else likely isn't too taxing on you in the long term, provided your rest up afterwards OR had trained in how to do it, it might not tax you hardly at all. Likewise leeching/siphoning energy might give you a sudden rush or boost, perhaps with a 'hangover' effect...maybe even an addiction if over done. Additionally, how a group or person comes across these abilities could affect how they and others view it. Someone who happens to be able to siphon energy from someone innately might be shunned and grow up an outcast 'vampire', a natural healer might go into the clergy or become a village doctor/shaman/witch. If someone trains at an academy on a broad range of traditional 'magic', or a monastery or church for 'holy magic', or a military citadel for 'offensive/defensive magic', that would affect how they view and define their arts...there's more than one way to skin a manticore!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 10, 2017 3:54:32 GMT
I like the idea of undead servants being used by some, most likely looked at suspiciously and probably only for certain jobs...you don't want a zombie making you a sandwich! I could see them as an elite 'bodyguard' type role for the aristocracy or the richest merchants, or laborers for slave labor type tasks like mining, that sort of thing. Those who can afford it make a deal with the Lich King, either a lump sum or a rent type deal..or occasionally, in exchange for their bodies after death, to serve the Lich King!
Of course, if something were to happen that would break the Lich King's control..like the rumors of someone ELSE able to control the undead, well..I can't imagine that would sit well with him OR those who employ the undead!
Perhaps the special metal Paul mentioned used for short or light swords could be mined from a large asteroid that fell to earth a long, long time ago in the center of the Badlands and that happens to be able to kill the undead. That large deposit of "whateverium" could be the resource under dispute there, since it's so valuable there are always groups and outlaws vying for control, perhaps causing the Empire to control a particularly large deposit (for the creation of their shorter weapons, like gladiius, pugios, or the tip of a pilum)...it could be outlawed in the Land of the Dead, but perhaps coveted in secret in case of an insurrection of undead!
As far as psychic abilities go, it would make sense to me if 'magic' is established as a method of manipulating reality. Telekinesis is simple to explain, likewise telepathy. There's not much different between a fireball from a mage, fire manipulation by a pyromancer, or a psyonic "flame" in that they're various types of super excitation of matter until combustion! Conversely, ice is the removal of matter's movement (i.e. sudden decrease in temperature), wind is the movement of matter or manipulation of gravity, lightning/heliomancy/'light' is the conversion of matter into energy (on a minor level, a simple light spell for illumination, on a larger scale, a beam of energy or lightning).
When it comes to the bestiary, I'd like to hear from Paul if this particular world is:
1) earth in the future, after some sort of catastrophe reduced the world to the stone age and we occasionally run across 'ruins' of our past, in a world populated with creatures we have now that survived as well as crazy mashups like manticores that were the result of genetic manipulation prior to the cataclysm.
2) a completely different world where anything goes, either a totally independent place where humans happened to evolve alongside other humanoids (sort of traditional middle-earth type scenario) or perhaps a different world that humans colonized a long, long time ago and it's lead to a mixture of creatures we brought with us and that were already there.
Paul, I'm not sure who you've got working with you on your side of things creating this world, but if some tasks could be broken down into types, like the bestiary Steven mentioned or Magic like Sev mentioned, I'm sure you'd have a bunch of volunteers here to help setup some 'working group' type threads to get it fleshed out! I'd love to work on the nitty-gritty of the 'magic' system, if there will be one, as well as anything else you need in general...I can't draw much more than stick figures and I'm not particularly good at coming up with sword designs, but I'd like to contribute however I can in whatever manner is needed!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 9, 2017 17:28:35 GMT
I forgot to add, I like the idea of all of those major plotlines happening at the same time! You could choose to set your short story in the middle of one of those events, but have it occur in the background..such as having your character take an old seldom used mountain trail because the Empire is on the march and have seized the main pass, and it's on that trail you discover an over grown crypt entrance! And Paul, after looking at that Celtic sword in a higher resolution than my cellphone, it kinda looks like there is some bronze/copper coloration to the spaces between the iron bars on the guard, am I seeing that correctly?
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 9, 2017 17:12:38 GMT
I'm really liking how the story-telling aspect of this project is coming along! I think as Paul starts to detail the settings (geographical references, general cultures, a few key characters like a lich king and the Empire), it would be easier for people to flesh out the details on their character's backstory and give us a population of characters to work with. I would suggest that since the sword design aspect of this is over (at least the first submission opportunity, so I hope more will come along, especially for other weapons, like daggers, maces, axes, polearms, etc.) that those who either didn't submit a design because they missed the deadline or just aren't skilled enough to do so, be encouraged to create a character in this universe Paul is molding. Perhaps at the time of their backstory they don't have a 'signature' weapon or it's just generic, like a basic kopesh or longsword, but maybe there can be a thread for folks to design their character(s) and allow them to contribute directly to this project. Personally, I would like to see either a dedicated thread or subforum where folks could create a post on their character, starting with their backstory using sort of like a sword review-type template, then be able to continue the thread with either a running storyline (that others could join in, if invited or allowed) or small short stories to create a living atmosphere for this world. Those who are interested could perhaps even use a dedicated "shout box" or a third party chat service, like Discord or something like that, to set a dedicated time for an event, allowing folks with characters to show up if they're interested (kind of like a board announcement like "Saturday, April 5th at 9pm EST, on Discord channel "SBG Stories" an earthquake will trigger a landslide that reveals ancient ruins at the Thunderhaven Mountains"). If the person creating the event wants to act in a 'dungeon master' way to help direct it, the transcripts of the event can be used to flesh out an actual short story that can be reposted here for everyone to enjoy. It's safe to assume there's overlap between the general sword-buying community and fantasy/RPG/D&D-type community, I'm betting something like this could bring in even more folks to this hobby and this site! Now, as far as making this world as user and idea-friendly as possible, I would suggest two things for the general structure of this world: 1) as this is a sword forum, magic use be kept at a minimum. Magic use in fantasy is essential, so it definitely has a place, but I'd suggest it not be overpowering or too fantastical in it's use, for example, being able to call down a meteor to level a mountain or call upon a literal army of 100,000 zombies. 2) and since magic is hard to define, I'd suggest a basic tenant be that the root of all magic come from a user's soul/essence/will/etc. manipulating the fabric of reality. This allows for a user to either possess this talent innately or through rigorous training, a special event, etc. while also allowing for a very, very wide range of 'types' of magic. For example, a monk character could train for years in a monastery to learn to move objects with his mind allowing for a telekinetic type magic, a young pyromancer could just be born with the ability to control/create fire but at the basis of it is their 'will' exciting molecules to such a high energy state they burst into flame and their ability to control that energy state as their 'pyromancy'...allowing a traditional 'mage' character to also be able to do the same thing, but though study and practice. Within the framework of Sevicler's magic structure, the Anima Mae/Animal Vestra could be thought of as 'using' your soul/essence/will to perform higher powered reality manipulation, in the vein of 'matter and energy are neither created or destroyed', you're converting some of your energy to perform this feat, which is a non-infinite resource. Likewise, having this type of soul/essence/will manipulation of reality as the basis for 'magic', it's open to anyone's interpretation of use. Some could take a traditional 'studious mage in his tower reading ancient tomes and scrolls' method or a chance interaction with a god/angel/demon/ghost/object/etc 'awakening' this ability, or just being born with it. Likewise, it's open to every group/culture/individual to define those abilities in whatever system they see fit...so Sevicler's system could be how his character or group could define 'magic' while someone else's character could come from a culture that defines 'magic' differently, or even thinks it's all the same and 'there is no magic'! Also, back in the realm of sword creation, in addition to the winners of this contest leading to several particular sword lines for creation and sale, I'd like to see a few 'base' models of examples a particular culture would use. Like a 'standard issue' kopesh for the lich king's zombies, or a simple gladius for the Empire. The sneak peek at the "Celtic Sword" looks like a base model dwarven sword to me! It has a sort of 'industrial' look to the hilt that seems like it could fit that role nicely. Engraving some runes or plating the pommel or guard in copper would look awesome! In that same vein, I'd love to see some more forum participation from the wealth of talent we have here, perhaps leading to some collaborations for customization where possible. Perhaps a small subset of swords, as a "Special SBG-line" where a bare blade could be sent to a forum member for assembly using a small batch of parts and along with a customized scabbard/belt system....for example, a batch of 20 basic leaf blades sent to someone along with a small order of 20 sets of 3-D printed guards, pommels, and grips to fit them and then assembled by that person in either a standard leather wrap with matching belt and scabbard or for an extra fee some more customization like choice of leather color, etching, etc...whatever the assembler can do. The bladesmiths would get a set commission for that batch, the 3-D printer would get a set commission for that batch of fittings and the assembler would receive a commission to assemble the swords/scabbard/belt and a bit on top if their asked to further customize it. Having the SBG store coordinate the commission of blades and 3-D components by doing a pre-sale after having lined up an assembler here would make it fairly easy for all parties! Another option could be a "SBG Masterpeice" line, where Paul could commission a particular popular design, something that grows to prominence as the world and story develops, as a small line or 1-off creation from start to finish by one of our talented manufactures here in the forum! Allowing them to make some creative embellishments, like etching, inlays, etc. to create a true masterpiece that could either be sold for a set price or even auctioned! Let's say for example the Sword of the Elvish King becomes a fan favorite, through it's actions and adventures in the hands of characters in this world, I would dearly love to see a Fableblades version of that sword! I know it would likely cost an arm and a leg, but turning something from fantasy into reality would be worth every penny! Anyway, I like the way this is progressing and I think there's a role for just about anyone who wants to participate to do so, either in design, story, or customization!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 7, 2017 14:01:52 GMT
You HAD ya send me that link so I found out Rick Barrett does Euro swords too?! You evil, evil man 😉 That leaf blade with the tiger striped maple scabbard...wow. That's one of those swords that stop your heart for a second when you see it!
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Post by dchisenh on Jul 7, 2017 3:28:27 GMT
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Post by dchisenh on Jun 7, 2017 1:54:34 GMT
Wow, what a thread! It's been awhile since I've been on here, but there are some designs here I couldn't pass up if they ever went into production.
leviathansteak: Your first posted sword, the one-handed version...looks amazing!
thesylvansmith: The Quill of Sylvanus is really nice, a bit longer blade but same proportions and I'd snatch it up in an instant!
Teurma: The first version of the sword is really impressive, I'd have a hard time not buying it!
Crocofixio: Shrike...badass! Give it a bit more of a pointed diamond-shaped form at the COP to match the guards, like a wasp-waisted gladius and you'd have one hell of a blade!
Djinnobi (Venus): The Saber of the Foreigner...wow! Really liking that design! ________________________________________________________________________________________________ But the winner in my book, with the best design(s) so far is Vincent Dolan!
Vincent...you have three pieces I think have some of the best aesthetics I've seen in a long, long time!
The absolute best sword design so far has to be your bastard saber...hands down, irresistible!
Paul, PLEASE get this sword into production! It's damn near 'shut up and take my money!' territory!
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Post by dchisenh on Jun 28, 2016 21:40:48 GMT
Thank you Darth for the kind words. I'm glad you like the sword and I think you hit the nail on the head as far as it being katana-ish and saber-ish, that's the exact thing I thought when I first saw it. I can't wait to see what you end up doing with it and I'm glad it's found a good home where it'll get to see some action! -Dan
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