|
Post by Afoo on Jan 28, 2018 20:43:29 GMT
Nice sword and write-up. It certainly looks impressive. Now you just need to buy its smaller Denmark-Norway M1701 cousin to complete the collection!
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 28, 2018 20:34:17 GMT
Guthrie Woods also sells swords in the Canadian market. They explicitly say theirs are obtained from WKC. I think Scully is the same. I think even the ones used by our cadets are WKC, but not sure.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 25, 2018 4:18:41 GMT
Windlass Sword UK is a distributor for contract service goods. Not the run of the mill fair of of reproduction stuff. They also produce Kukris and gobs of bayonets for dozens off countries. Windlass was in the arms business two decades before they started developing their repro goods. True - but their stuff is still marked "windlass", rather than William Scully or WKC. I am not a military person, but I figured if I wanted something to mark a major achievement, I would want it marked "Made in Canada" rather than "Made in India" - esp if you are in the, well, Canadian forces. I know the swords from Scully and Guthrie woods are not actually *made* in Canada, but its the thought that counts
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 25, 2018 2:49:06 GMT
Actually, Windlass makes British service sabers. The Cav and Guards sabers top the Marie Rose. Just checked them out, oh wow. Pretty but pricy. Makes the Mary rose look pretty thrifty in comparison. I wonder if anyone actually buys them from there, or if they are sold mainly to collectors. I have seen a few Canadian officer swords and none are ever from Windlass. Its an item of pride, and not something you want to skimp out on. ~~ Its a pity about the guard bars - it looks nice from the side profile, but those side bars are so close that it makes the whole thing look too narrow and out or proportion to my eye. The blade looks nice though. As always, thanks for the reviews
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 25, 2018 2:44:10 GMT
Yeah I finally decided to remerge from my never-ending slumber. My life changing event has finally stabilized and I can get back to my all time passion of discussing swords. All this time I was hoping this inactivity period would help me heal my compulsion and slow things down with swords by instead just focusing on selling them...but that failed miserably so I'm back on track and full of new ideas. Eager to exchange info with you guys Seeking treasures in the Mines of myarmory The sword hunters delved too greedily and too deep And awoke a terror of shadow and flame ... ... Welcome back ^^
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 25, 2018 2:40:09 GMT
If you can remove the wooden grip panels, you may be able to better shim it. The guard is held in the front by the cross-piece running through the blade. Can check that to see if its bent? Though I can't imagine thats the cause. Likely some wear or shrinkage to the wooden grip panels. Check the condition of the grip panels and see that they are okay perhaps?
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 25, 2018 2:34:42 GMT
BTW good haul Dave Kelly ! I saw this one on eBay, but as I was not familiar with the pattern I waved it off as either a Frankenstein creation, or some wimpy officer's dainty little plaything. Looking at it now, I can appreciate that this thing is magnificent to behold! Although the tiny grip reminds me of the Universal Swords microgrip... I wonder why the Italians decided to create this thing. They already have the excellent 1860 Trooper's. If anything, this 1864- while much prettier- appears to represent a downgrade in terms of functionality. Also seems strange that they would have such a short grip on what appears to be a poking sword. There is some definite strangeness to its proportions, but a nice one. Also, welcome back Pino?
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 18:28:57 GMT
You could say they picked it up and turned it around and turned it into something new I wasn't aware that swords could work as a waitress in a cocktail bar? In all seriousness though- very nice writeup. The history of these things is remarkable and is as important (if nor more so) than the handling and engineering. Are there pincoins? I'm assuming that these would have to be-inspected after the re-forging and I'm wondering how that was documented. It's a shame they shortened the 1822 blade during the (un)bending. If they kept the full foible it could make for a hilarious pallasch! Briefly, but they didn't want them ~ There are pincoins - would have to take a closer look later since its been sent off temporarily. I would have to cross-reference to see whether they date from the original 1822, or from the later 1883 reforging. I suspect that the foible is harder to straighten, since you have less metal to work with
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 18:27:04 GMT
It could be interesting; the question is how (or even if) this one is an improvement over the current Cold Steel/Hanwei offerings, as Afoo pointed out. The listed stats (2lb 14oz) has it slightly lighter than the current offerings (3lb 1oz to 3lb 5oz for the Hanweis, and 3lb 8oz for the CS/Universal versions). However, I normally assume +/- 0.25lb error in the given weight measurements. I also do like the shape of the blade- of the lot this one looks more functional and less showy. I'm neither a cutter nor a basket-hilt expert, but the improved handling could allow this piece to offer something that was missing in the market. On the other hand, the black finish looks awful to my eye and I recall it comes off with great difficulty. Also, the MRL listing advertises "real ray-skin". On a antiquated blackened piece. That seems kind of a waste of rayskin if I'm honest. It's odd that Windlass is expanding their battlecry(!) range; I had the impression that they weren't as successful as was once hoped. They're marketed as cheap, rough-and-ready backyard hackers but at least in my market they're priced at around the same range as "normal" swords. I don't think that the "cheap-and-cheerful, but not actually cheap" market they envisioned has materialized. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though... The one vendor in Canada that I am aware of carrying this line has been having a deep (almost desperate) sale on these items for the past year or so. It may be lighter than the Hanwei, but the blade stock also looks thinner
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 17:55:54 GMT
The Patton was around $130 was it not? The 1906 was $200, which is not bad considering the price of some Universals.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 15:04:57 GMT
You mean something like this? Not entirely sure of the story, but it seems to be a fascinating weapon. See if any of the older hands know anything more
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 14:59:48 GMT
That's an awesome piece. Did You restore it? Truly a unique part of any collection, and I wonder after those initial 3k how many actuslly survived, given that there were enough reports of them breaking for the model to be pulled. Certainly an interesting piece that's also a fine investment ;) Out of curiosity did the seller know what he had his hands on, or was there a premium given its rarity? In any case, great write up. Short and sweet and informative. I bought this on ebay from pcay - he generally has a good idea of what he is selling. Curiously though he labeled this as a standard 1883 Cav sabre, and made no mention of it being a Tmre so it appears to be a very, very obscure topic. I think we are lucky that we have people like Uhlan around - otherwise we might not have known what it was either. @uhlan - I often see them labeled as 1883 models. This fellow here had a pair, but they disappeared over Christmas. He had them labeled appropriately as 1822/1883 tmre www.jjb-collection.com/en/
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 14:56:33 GMT
My *general* rule is that Universals tend to be better put together and capture the look of the originals, but the Windlasses are better handling swords/ The Universal Princess of Wales seems to be an exception (its both well made AND handles well - so much so that my brother and I both owned one at one point in time).
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 6:55:37 GMT
Thats... odd
My biggest beef is the price. At over $300 it site right in the firing line of the Hanwei offerings, and to me those look much better designed and made
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 20, 2018 6:01:55 GMT
I always had a feeling that this heinous afterthought of a conversion would handle badly. I guess you can say you transformed my opinion of this model :D You could say they picked it up and turned it around and turned it into something new @uhlan - strange. Anyone else have this issue. A complete link to the picture album is here: flic.kr/s/aHskACdVEX hope that works
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 19, 2018 3:11:27 GMT
The French 1822 LC sabre is steeped in legend and lore. As discussed elsewhere, I am dubious that it deserves this reputation based on its handling alone. I suspect others share that feeling, but I am always reluctant to put words into people's mouths as that opens up too much room for misinterpretation etc so I will just stick to my own opinion for now. Its grown on me, but its not the stuff of legends, and not enough in my opinion to put it above the likes of the Swiss 1867 or Italian 1860. What makes the 1822 family interesting to me is its long and rich history, seeing service for over 100 years - from the frozen taiga of Finland to the sweltering deserts and bazars of the middle east. Its descendants have even made their way across the Atlantic to see service most notably with the US during their great schism, but also with a host of smaller Latin America countries, whose wars and arms races across the last half of the 19th century represent a fascinating, if often overlooked chunk of history. One of the last direct descendants of the 1822 LC was the 1883 Cavalry sword, an excellent description of which is available in a post from our own Uhlan here. Here we are treated to a parade of images and descriptions for a variety of 1822 models, including one-offs an officer commissioned works of various levels. However, there was one item which I thought deserved further attention. Here, Uhlan gives us a pair of sentences describing....well, see for yourself. "The Light Cavalry wanted a pallash and because the delivery of the M1882 was delayed, it was decided in 1883 to re forge the regular M1822 into pallash form, but with a shorter blade, from 92 cm to 87 cm and call it the M1883. This reforging proved fatal. The blades could not support this treatment and there were no more than 3000 of this type produced."The story of these re-forged 1822's instantly captured my imagination. Their rarity alone makes it interesting, and their story is, as far as I know, unique among the world of military sabres. Finally, its fatal flaw gave it an air of romance - rather like the protagonists from a Greek tragedy. Perhaps a better analogy would be the Battlecrusier concept from WWI. It was arguably flawed from the start and suffered disproportionately during their course of action, but yet they captured the imagination like no other class of ship and its flaws and shortcomings are still being written about to this day, despite its obsolescence over half a decade earlier. In contrast to this, information on these ill-fated 1822 remastered editions are scarce online - beyond the fact that they existed, I could find nothing at all. However, there are still a few for sale, and I was lucky enough to end up with one of the 3000. As Kevin Bacon once said, there is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. This is no exception. The blade looks....off in my eye. The deep and broad fullers meant for the curved, 36 inch 1822 LC blade are a bit wide for this current guise. The blade has been given a spear point in line (hehe) with its new role as a thrusting weapon , giving it a symmetrical profile. However, the fuller is biased towards the spine of the blade which, along with that small secondary fuller clashes a bit with this new profile. The secondary fuller is also much too far up - it starts about 9 inches from the guard but terminates only 5-6 inches from the tip. However, the overall package looks....quite handsome. It puts me in mind of the 1889 British Sgt sword, with its very broad, yet straight and uncomplicated blade. The odd-ness, especially its out of place secondary fuller also provides visual cues as to its unique history The inscription on the spine reads "Light cav model of 1822 tmre 1883" - tmre standing in for "transformed". Its interesting to note that the original markings have been scratched off to make room for its new "tmre" designation - as shown below by the, well, scratch marks populating the relevant area of the spine. The shape of the ricasso indicates that this particular example started life as a late-model (post-war) production 1822, but any further details beyond its transformation require more research If we look down the blade, we see more evidence of its traumatic experience. Note the waviness of the secondary fuller. I don't have a picture, but if you line the spine of the blade up against a wall or other straight surface you see that it deviates slightly from true. I have other examples of un-modified 1822 LS'c, and am confident that this is not reflective of the manufacturing standards of the period, but rather a reflection of the re-forging process. I am sure this may give some pause for people who want to do test cuts, but for a collector of history I find this facinating The handling on this piece is unique and actually surprisingly good - just not for its intended role. As a cavalry weapon I think its mediocre - like any compromise cut and thrust design its a bit light on the cut. It can thrust if required, but the proper 1882 model, despite what Uhlan says about it, is a much better sword for that purpose. This is odd to me because I have a Finnish 1822 LC which was shortened to a much greater extent than the 1822 tmre 1883 model, but yet retains much more of its cutting power. However, I think this is an excellent infantry sword. Much like the 1889 Sgt sword I referenced earlier, this sword is light enough to move quickly on foot, but has enough heft and weight to give decent cuts while giving you the confidence to parry heavier weapons like riffle buts and bayonets. The wide, simple blade with its broad fuller also gives it *visual* heft. I know a swords appearance does not necessarily correlate to its physical properties, but just looking at it in your hand gives you a sense of confidence. It *feels* more sturdy, and I would argue that is the most important aspect of all. Perhaps this also contributes to its *perceived* lack of cutting power relative to its Nordic stablemate - its possible that the perception of my hand is biased by the perception of my eyes. Unfortunately my Finnish 1822 is still in Canada, and I have wish to swing either of them while blindfolded to rule out this hypothesis so it shall remain unproven for now. In short, this sword is decent in the hand and looks fantastic, if a bit off. However, its value to me comes from its story - whether as a weary warrior re-forged for one last stab at glory, or simply a continuation of one of the longest-lived sword lineages in modern history.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 17, 2018 21:16:22 GMT
Its...unusual. My impression was that Universal had better fit and finish, but worse handling that Windlass
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 17, 2018 2:14:57 GMT
Curious about the 1685 as well - might pick one up in a bit once the cost of my new purchases have been diluted enough. Was wondering where they came from - seemed like a sudden topic change for USI. Please do let us know how it is.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 14, 2018 3:52:56 GMT
Yeah. Thats what I don't like - people take what they want and leave. I am sure many of us started on the forums by asking questions as well - but at least we stayed and provided something of interest to discuss. I don't mind ID'ing things, but you have to treat us as something other than a service to be taken advantage of >.>
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jan 12, 2018 3:41:36 GMT
He's on facebook. Send him an email. The subject line should have your name and what you want done in general terms. You can elaborate in the text and maybe a couple of pics. He will get back to you. He just did that PDL 1840 grip redo for me last fall + 6 washers for 1840/60 sabers. We had a short convo over email and decided on a washer, wiring and rayskin grip for my sabre :) How did it turn out? I am looking to have a French 1822 re-wrapped in the near future (and that will be the topic of a later post ;) )
|
|