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Post by viece on Jan 23, 2018 12:23:59 GMT
Hi folks, I just acquired a Spanish Model 1908. Nice graceful lines but the guard is slightly loose. The pommel seems to be capped by a smooth nut with faint indentations. I've tried to turn it a bit but no movement either direction. I'm afraid if I use any tools to grip the indentations I'll scratch it up. Does anyone have experience taking one of these apart? Thanks!
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 23, 2018 14:53:23 GMT
The nut should have two small holes in it, and they should be fairly deep. In the past I've used two small screwdrivers in each hole to unscrew it, though it didn't have an effect on the guard looseness. I would advocate for copper shims sharpened like a chisel on one side, inserted into both sides of the guard on either side of the retainer pin.
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Post by viece on Jan 23, 2018 15:04:45 GMT
The nut should have two small holes in it, and they should be fairly deep. In the past I've used two small screwdrivers in each hole to unscrew it, though it didn't have an effect on the guard looseness. I would advocate for copper shims sharpened like a chisel on one side, inserted into both sides of the guard on either side of the retainer pin. Thanks! I did not realize the two holes were so deep. There is enough gunk on this one that they appear to be shallow dimples. However, I will try shims before opening it up. On a side note, I'm surprised how floppy the blade is, for a thrusting weapon with a thick blade. It hasn't lost temper and will still return to true after bending. Floppy is the only word I can think of that fits.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 23, 2018 15:26:16 GMT
The nut should have two small holes in it, and they should be fairly deep. In the past I've used two small screwdrivers in each hole to unscrew it, though it didn't have an effect on the guard looseness. I would advocate for copper shims sharpened like a chisel on one side, inserted into both sides of the guard on either side of the retainer pin. Thanks! I did not realize the two holes were so deep. There is enough gunk on this one that they appear to be shallow dimples. However, I will try shims before opening it up. On a side note, I'm surprised how floppy the blade is, for a thrusting weapon with a thick blade. It hasn't lost temper and will still return to true after bending. Floppy is the only word I can think of that fits. Yeah, kinda a lackluster cav weapon imo. I'd take the earlier M1895 any day of the week. A needle should work well for clearing the holes.
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Post by bfoo2 on Jan 24, 2018 4:37:52 GMT
Do you mean a Spanish M1907? (I think that's the official designation but if I'm wrong someone let me know)
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Post by bfoo2 on Jan 24, 2018 4:53:00 GMT
I had one of these a few years ago. Funny enough it was one of my favourite swords. I found the sword to be light and nimble, yet retained sufficient heft and weight to command respect. Blade wasn't the stiffest I had (I had a British P1912 and a French 1882 inf and both are stiff as nails) but it was sufficient.
Goes to show how personal preferences can vary; definitely not a "one-size-fits-all" world. (Not to mention the extent to which Spanish sword quality could vary due to the political situation in Spain during this time)
I'd be leery of tightening the tang screw. The 1907 has a full-width tang, with the "grips" consisting of wooden panels screwed through the tang. The pommel screw serve to allows for disassembly, but does NOT apply compression force to hold the sword together. Therefore, tightening the screw will likely not solve your guard issue.
Tightening the pommel screw will compress the pommel and squeeze the wooden grips. However, since the wooden grips are bolted to the tang, the wood will NOT transmit this force further up the sword. You could potentially crack the wood.
I would second Jordan's recommendation of trying to shim the sword. It's cheap, easy, and has a 0% chance of damaging the sword. If that doesn't work, then maybe consider escalating to disassembly and playing with screws.
Try using a set of needle-nose pliers to get to those screws if you need to.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 24, 2018 5:50:41 GMT
Do you mean a Spanish M1907? (I think that's the official designation but if I'm wrong someone let me know) You're correct, and good eye catching that Sure flew by me lol. Another designation, at least on one of the Spanish language forums I was searching a few years back referred to it as the M1907/18 as it apparently started production in 1918, unless they're the prototype models, which were German made and would be marked as such. (I've heard that these are actually better in terms of fit and finish incidentally but don't quote me on that) But these are very rare. Also, I appreciate your thoughts on the sword. Personally I prefer much heavier swords when it comes to cavalry usage, however I see your take on it, (if I remember you do/did sport fencing?) and I'm sure the Spaniards in Morocco sure liked it. It is a nice handling sword for sure though. Your comment on steel quality varying would also be accurate to me, as I've seen a fair share of them with repairs to the blade.
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Post by viece on Jan 24, 2018 23:43:31 GMT
Thanks for the clarification, bfoo2! The picture you posted is indeed the same kind I have. I probably mixed up the terminology with the British 1908 pattern. WWI era pointy stuff. Thanks also for the information about the construction. I definitely will not mess with the nut and will shim it as Jordan suggested. I've been working in the field away from my collection for a few days and look forward to making some progress on that. Speaking of collection, some pics attached. Attachments:
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Post by bfoo2 on Jan 25, 2018 1:38:25 GMT
What is that one on the bottom? Guard looks like a Mensur sword, but the blade is much too heavy for that sort of work.
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Post by Afoo on Jan 25, 2018 2:40:09 GMT
If you can remove the wooden grip panels, you may be able to better shim it. The guard is held in the front by the cross-piece running through the blade. Can check that to see if its bent? Though I can't imagine thats the cause. Likely some wear or shrinkage to the wooden grip panels. Check the condition of the grip panels and see that they are okay perhaps?
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Post by bfoo2 on Jan 25, 2018 4:01:13 GMT
Afoo there's a metal ferrule between the grip panels and the guard. Yes, I forgot about the little cross-piece
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Post by viece on Jan 25, 2018 11:56:42 GMT
If you can remove the wooden grip panels, you may be able to better shim it. The guard is held in the front by the cross-piece running through the blade. Can check that to see if its bent? Though I can't imagine thats the cause. Likely some wear or shrinkage to the wooden grip panels. Check the condition of the grip panels and see that they are okay perhaps? Grip panels seem super solid. The movement is minor so I'm going to try to get some copper today and shim the guard. Thanks for the thoughts!
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Post by viece on Jan 25, 2018 12:19:09 GMT
What is that one on the bottom? Guard looks like a Mensur sword, but the blade is much too heavy for that sort of work. Yes, isn't it an odd one? Stamped "garantia" so Spanish, supposed to be made for Latin American market. Heavy cavalry blade. The grip forces you to take a thrusty, fency thumb-up grip, which feels weird with this blade. I imagine the mensur shlager style made its way over with Germans and Austrians who explored and settled in Bolivia, Argentina, etc., or maybe with the Maximilian I regime in Mexico. I don't have evidence for that, just speculating. If anyone else recognizes this type and can provide additional insights, I would greatly appreciate it. Regardless of the origin, I love the look of the mensur basket -- huge, elegant curves.
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