French Cavalry Swords Addendum - Across the Finnish Line
Jun 18, 2017 4:47:18 GMT
Post by Afoo on Jun 18, 2017 4:47:18 GMT
Over the past year or so, it seems like my interest in swords had turned decidedly French - after living so many years in a "bilingual" country, perhaps that was inevitable.
I have previously done some modest write-ups on the various French swords available in my collection. This includes such esteemed patterns as the 1854 hand-lance, 1822 Bancal and 1829 Artillery - a full review can be found here (part 1, part 2, and part 3)
While all these patterns are great in their own regard, the one which catches my imagination most is the venerable 1822 LC. I have expressed before that I am not a fan of the 1822 LC - I find it too big, too vague, and too clunky. I am however, drawn to its history. In addition to inspiring the American 1840/1860 line, the 1822 itself was used as it was right up until the early days of world war two; one can make an argument that the longevity of the pattern rivals even that of the 1796/1811 line, as discussed by bfoo2 here.
Thus, when this listing came out on myarmory, I could not resist. The seller is the SBg forumite formerly known as Pino1814, and has a good reputation. The fact that he is located just 200 km North-East from where I am doesn't hurt either. Package got in Thursday - just in time for me to come down with the plague. Didn't get around to writing up until today.
The sword in question is shown above. As you can tell, its an 1822 LC. In case you are not convinced, I have my own, original 1822 LC shown on the bottom for comparison. This sword, however, has been modified at some point in its life. As the original listing indicates, the two side-bars have been removed and the blade has been cut down to 32.5 inches (out of 36.25 inches).
As part of its auspicious history, 1822's were sold to Poland in the 1920's. According to Pino, the Poles altered them to the configuration you see above. Pino does have a good reputation as a knowledgeable collector (just see his old posts here on the forums and you will know), and there are sources which that the Poles did indeed cut off the side-branches because thats how they role.
I could find no record of the Poles shortening the blades. However, the scabbard fits perfectly to the new, shorter blade length so I am convinced this is a legit alteration. I DID however find records of the 1822 in service with the Finnish forces, hence the title for the thread. These swords were sold to them in the 1920's and 30's, much like their polish counterparts. Moreover, there is some documentation (1, 2, 3, 4) which shows some examples with the cut down guard AND shortened the blade, much like the model I have in my possession. Based on this evidence, I am leaning towards this sword being one of the Finnish examples, though it is not unfeasible for it to be a Polish modified version. Either way, both stories make for a compelling history, and make this a very neat piece in my collection, especially considering the role played by both nations in the wars of 1939.
~~
According to the sources, the Finns thought the full-sized 1822 LC was too large and unwieldy, hence the alteration. In my example, the blade is cut down to just before the fuller ends, leaving only around 2 inches of foible at the tip. This gives it a PoB of 5.25 inches and a weight of 1.98 pounds (my 1822 LC comes in at 6 inches and 2.4 pounds respectively). Despite the lack of foible, the modified 1822 feels nice in the hand - a testament to the French design. I would put it on par with the Prussian 1873, despite being 4 inches longer. At this stage of weapons development though, I suspect that lightness and ease of carry were the primary concerns, and the modified 1822 does that in spades.
The modified 1822 originally started its life at the Klingthal armories in 1832, making it a fantastically old piece. In contrast to this, my un-modified 1822 was made in Chatellerault in 1874. As such, there are some differences between the models
The grips on the 1832 are slightly longer ad have a slight curve towards the back, while the 1874 remains straight throughout. Not sure how much this would effect handling. Also note that the ricasso pattern on the two is different (this change was implemented in 1860)
The fullers on the 1874 also seem to be deeper than that of the earlier model, but narrower. Not sure if this coincided with the change in ricasso design in 1860, or is a result of declining quality after the Franco-Prussian war
I did notice that the taper on the 1832 is marginally better - by perhaps 0.5-1 mm if you measure starting from the *bottom* of the small secondary fuller (the main spine of the blade is pretty consistent across both). However I mark that down just to the normal variation one might see between any two blades of the same pattern, regardless of date or manufacturer.
While I am not a huge fan of the 1822 LC in its stock form, I have to respect it for what it does - it handles very well for something thats so big - I am just not convinced that it has to be so big in the first place. With that in mind the Finnish modifications float mot boat just fine - its a small, handy sword which looks great and has a really cool story to boot.
Full link to images here
I have previously done some modest write-ups on the various French swords available in my collection. This includes such esteemed patterns as the 1854 hand-lance, 1822 Bancal and 1829 Artillery - a full review can be found here (part 1, part 2, and part 3)
While all these patterns are great in their own regard, the one which catches my imagination most is the venerable 1822 LC. I have expressed before that I am not a fan of the 1822 LC - I find it too big, too vague, and too clunky. I am however, drawn to its history. In addition to inspiring the American 1840/1860 line, the 1822 itself was used as it was right up until the early days of world war two; one can make an argument that the longevity of the pattern rivals even that of the 1796/1811 line, as discussed by bfoo2 here.
Thus, when this listing came out on myarmory, I could not resist. The seller is the SBg forumite formerly known as Pino1814, and has a good reputation. The fact that he is located just 200 km North-East from where I am doesn't hurt either. Package got in Thursday - just in time for me to come down with the plague. Didn't get around to writing up until today.
The sword in question is shown above. As you can tell, its an 1822 LC. In case you are not convinced, I have my own, original 1822 LC shown on the bottom for comparison. This sword, however, has been modified at some point in its life. As the original listing indicates, the two side-bars have been removed and the blade has been cut down to 32.5 inches (out of 36.25 inches).
As part of its auspicious history, 1822's were sold to Poland in the 1920's. According to Pino, the Poles altered them to the configuration you see above. Pino does have a good reputation as a knowledgeable collector (just see his old posts here on the forums and you will know), and there are sources which that the Poles did indeed cut off the side-branches because thats how they role.
I could find no record of the Poles shortening the blades. However, the scabbard fits perfectly to the new, shorter blade length so I am convinced this is a legit alteration. I DID however find records of the 1822 in service with the Finnish forces, hence the title for the thread. These swords were sold to them in the 1920's and 30's, much like their polish counterparts. Moreover, there is some documentation (1, 2, 3, 4) which shows some examples with the cut down guard AND shortened the blade, much like the model I have in my possession. Based on this evidence, I am leaning towards this sword being one of the Finnish examples, though it is not unfeasible for it to be a Polish modified version. Either way, both stories make for a compelling history, and make this a very neat piece in my collection, especially considering the role played by both nations in the wars of 1939.
~~
According to the sources, the Finns thought the full-sized 1822 LC was too large and unwieldy, hence the alteration. In my example, the blade is cut down to just before the fuller ends, leaving only around 2 inches of foible at the tip. This gives it a PoB of 5.25 inches and a weight of 1.98 pounds (my 1822 LC comes in at 6 inches and 2.4 pounds respectively). Despite the lack of foible, the modified 1822 feels nice in the hand - a testament to the French design. I would put it on par with the Prussian 1873, despite being 4 inches longer. At this stage of weapons development though, I suspect that lightness and ease of carry were the primary concerns, and the modified 1822 does that in spades.
The modified 1822 originally started its life at the Klingthal armories in 1832, making it a fantastically old piece. In contrast to this, my un-modified 1822 was made in Chatellerault in 1874. As such, there are some differences between the models
The grips on the 1832 are slightly longer ad have a slight curve towards the back, while the 1874 remains straight throughout. Not sure how much this would effect handling. Also note that the ricasso pattern on the two is different (this change was implemented in 1860)
The fullers on the 1874 also seem to be deeper than that of the earlier model, but narrower. Not sure if this coincided with the change in ricasso design in 1860, or is a result of declining quality after the Franco-Prussian war
I did notice that the taper on the 1832 is marginally better - by perhaps 0.5-1 mm if you measure starting from the *bottom* of the small secondary fuller (the main spine of the blade is pretty consistent across both). However I mark that down just to the normal variation one might see between any two blades of the same pattern, regardless of date or manufacturer.
While I am not a huge fan of the 1822 LC in its stock form, I have to respect it for what it does - it handles very well for something thats so big - I am just not convinced that it has to be so big in the first place. With that in mind the Finnish modifications float mot boat just fine - its a small, handy sword which looks great and has a really cool story to boot.
Full link to images here