The French Saga Continues - 1822 tmre 1883
Jan 19, 2018 3:11:27 GMT
Post by Afoo on Jan 19, 2018 3:11:27 GMT
The French 1822 LC sabre is steeped in legend and lore. As discussed elsewhere, I am dubious that it deserves this reputation based on its handling alone. I suspect others share that feeling, but I am always reluctant to put words into people's mouths as that opens up too much room for misinterpretation etc so I will just stick to my own opinion for now. Its grown on me, but its not the stuff of legends, and not enough in my opinion to put it above the likes of the Swiss 1867 or Italian 1860.
What makes the 1822 family interesting to me is its long and rich history, seeing service for over 100 years - from the frozen taiga of Finland to the sweltering deserts and bazars of the middle east. Its descendants have even made their way across the Atlantic to see service most notably with the US during their great schism, but also with a host of smaller Latin America countries, whose wars and arms races across the last half of the 19th century represent a fascinating, if often overlooked chunk of history.
One of the last direct descendants of the 1822 LC was the 1883 Cavalry sword, an excellent description of which is available in a post from our own Uhlan here. Here we are treated to a parade of images and descriptions for a variety of 1822 models, including one-offs an officer commissioned works of various levels. However, there was one item which I thought deserved further attention.
Here, Uhlan gives us a pair of sentences describing....well, see for yourself.
"The Light Cavalry wanted a pallash and because the delivery of the M1882 was delayed, it was decided in 1883 to re forge the regular M1822 into pallash form, but with a shorter blade, from 92 cm to 87 cm and call it the M1883. This reforging proved fatal. The blades could not support this treatment and there were no more than 3000 of this type produced."
The story of these re-forged 1822's instantly captured my imagination. Their rarity alone makes it interesting, and their story is, as far as I know, unique among the world of military sabres. Finally, its fatal flaw gave it an air of romance - rather like the protagonists from a Greek tragedy. Perhaps a better analogy would be the Battlecrusier concept from WWI. It was arguably flawed from the start and suffered disproportionately during their course of action, but yet they captured the imagination like no other class of ship and its flaws and shortcomings are still being written about to this day, despite its obsolescence over half a decade earlier.
In contrast to this, information on these ill-fated 1822 remastered editions are scarce online - beyond the fact that they existed, I could find nothing at all. However, there are still a few for sale, and I was lucky enough to end up with one of the 3000.
As Kevin Bacon once said, there is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. This is no exception. The blade looks....off in my eye. The deep and broad fullers meant for the curved, 36 inch 1822 LC blade are a bit wide for this current guise. The blade has been given a spear point in line (hehe) with its new role as a thrusting weapon , giving it a symmetrical profile. However, the fuller is biased towards the spine of the blade which, along with that small secondary fuller clashes a bit with this new profile. The secondary fuller is also much too far up - it starts about 9 inches from the guard but terminates only 5-6 inches from the tip.
However, the overall package looks....quite handsome. It puts me in mind of the 1889 British Sgt sword, with its very broad, yet straight and uncomplicated blade. The odd-ness, especially its out of place secondary fuller also provides visual cues as to its unique history
The inscription on the spine reads "Light cav model of 1822 tmre 1883" - tmre standing in for "transformed". Its interesting to note that the original markings have been scratched off to make room for its new "tmre" designation - as shown below by the, well, scratch marks populating the relevant area of the spine. The shape of the ricasso indicates that this particular example started life as a late-model (post-war) production 1822, but any further details beyond its transformation require more research
If we look down the blade, we see more evidence of its traumatic experience. Note the waviness of the secondary fuller. I don't have a picture, but if you line the spine of the blade up against a wall or other straight surface you see that it deviates slightly from true. I have other examples of un-modified 1822 LS'c, and am confident that this is not reflective of the manufacturing standards of the period, but rather a reflection of the re-forging process. I am sure this may give some pause for people who want to do test cuts, but for a collector of history I find this facinating
The handling on this piece is unique and actually surprisingly good - just not for its intended role. As a cavalry weapon I think its mediocre - like any compromise cut and thrust design its a bit light on the cut. It can thrust if required, but the proper 1882 model, despite what Uhlan says about it, is a much better sword for that purpose. This is odd to me because I have a Finnish 1822 LC which was shortened to a much greater extent than the 1822 tmre 1883 model, but yet retains much more of its cutting power.
However, I think this is an excellent infantry sword. Much like the 1889 Sgt sword I referenced earlier, this sword is light enough to move quickly on foot, but has enough heft and weight to give decent cuts while giving you the confidence to parry heavier weapons like riffle buts and bayonets. The wide, simple blade with its broad fuller also gives it *visual* heft. I know a swords appearance does not necessarily correlate to its physical properties, but just looking at it in your hand gives you a sense of confidence. It *feels* more sturdy, and I would argue that is the most important aspect of all. Perhaps this also contributes to its *perceived* lack of cutting power relative to its Nordic stablemate - its possible that the perception of my hand is biased by the perception of my eyes. Unfortunately my Finnish 1822 is still in Canada, and I have wish to swing either of them while blindfolded to rule out this hypothesis so it shall remain unproven for now.
In short, this sword is decent in the hand and looks fantastic, if a bit off. However, its value to me comes from its story - whether as a weary warrior re-forged for one last stab at glory, or simply a continuation of one of the longest-lived sword lineages in modern history.
What makes the 1822 family interesting to me is its long and rich history, seeing service for over 100 years - from the frozen taiga of Finland to the sweltering deserts and bazars of the middle east. Its descendants have even made their way across the Atlantic to see service most notably with the US during their great schism, but also with a host of smaller Latin America countries, whose wars and arms races across the last half of the 19th century represent a fascinating, if often overlooked chunk of history.
One of the last direct descendants of the 1822 LC was the 1883 Cavalry sword, an excellent description of which is available in a post from our own Uhlan here. Here we are treated to a parade of images and descriptions for a variety of 1822 models, including one-offs an officer commissioned works of various levels. However, there was one item which I thought deserved further attention.
Here, Uhlan gives us a pair of sentences describing....well, see for yourself.
"The Light Cavalry wanted a pallash and because the delivery of the M1882 was delayed, it was decided in 1883 to re forge the regular M1822 into pallash form, but with a shorter blade, from 92 cm to 87 cm and call it the M1883. This reforging proved fatal. The blades could not support this treatment and there were no more than 3000 of this type produced."
The story of these re-forged 1822's instantly captured my imagination. Their rarity alone makes it interesting, and their story is, as far as I know, unique among the world of military sabres. Finally, its fatal flaw gave it an air of romance - rather like the protagonists from a Greek tragedy. Perhaps a better analogy would be the Battlecrusier concept from WWI. It was arguably flawed from the start and suffered disproportionately during their course of action, but yet they captured the imagination like no other class of ship and its flaws and shortcomings are still being written about to this day, despite its obsolescence over half a decade earlier.
In contrast to this, information on these ill-fated 1822 remastered editions are scarce online - beyond the fact that they existed, I could find nothing at all. However, there are still a few for sale, and I was lucky enough to end up with one of the 3000.
As Kevin Bacon once said, there is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. This is no exception. The blade looks....off in my eye. The deep and broad fullers meant for the curved, 36 inch 1822 LC blade are a bit wide for this current guise. The blade has been given a spear point in line (hehe) with its new role as a thrusting weapon , giving it a symmetrical profile. However, the fuller is biased towards the spine of the blade which, along with that small secondary fuller clashes a bit with this new profile. The secondary fuller is also much too far up - it starts about 9 inches from the guard but terminates only 5-6 inches from the tip.
However, the overall package looks....quite handsome. It puts me in mind of the 1889 British Sgt sword, with its very broad, yet straight and uncomplicated blade. The odd-ness, especially its out of place secondary fuller also provides visual cues as to its unique history
The inscription on the spine reads "Light cav model of 1822 tmre 1883" - tmre standing in for "transformed". Its interesting to note that the original markings have been scratched off to make room for its new "tmre" designation - as shown below by the, well, scratch marks populating the relevant area of the spine. The shape of the ricasso indicates that this particular example started life as a late-model (post-war) production 1822, but any further details beyond its transformation require more research
If we look down the blade, we see more evidence of its traumatic experience. Note the waviness of the secondary fuller. I don't have a picture, but if you line the spine of the blade up against a wall or other straight surface you see that it deviates slightly from true. I have other examples of un-modified 1822 LS'c, and am confident that this is not reflective of the manufacturing standards of the period, but rather a reflection of the re-forging process. I am sure this may give some pause for people who want to do test cuts, but for a collector of history I find this facinating
The handling on this piece is unique and actually surprisingly good - just not for its intended role. As a cavalry weapon I think its mediocre - like any compromise cut and thrust design its a bit light on the cut. It can thrust if required, but the proper 1882 model, despite what Uhlan says about it, is a much better sword for that purpose. This is odd to me because I have a Finnish 1822 LC which was shortened to a much greater extent than the 1822 tmre 1883 model, but yet retains much more of its cutting power.
However, I think this is an excellent infantry sword. Much like the 1889 Sgt sword I referenced earlier, this sword is light enough to move quickly on foot, but has enough heft and weight to give decent cuts while giving you the confidence to parry heavier weapons like riffle buts and bayonets. The wide, simple blade with its broad fuller also gives it *visual* heft. I know a swords appearance does not necessarily correlate to its physical properties, but just looking at it in your hand gives you a sense of confidence. It *feels* more sturdy, and I would argue that is the most important aspect of all. Perhaps this also contributes to its *perceived* lack of cutting power relative to its Nordic stablemate - its possible that the perception of my hand is biased by the perception of my eyes. Unfortunately my Finnish 1822 is still in Canada, and I have wish to swing either of them while blindfolded to rule out this hypothesis so it shall remain unproven for now.
In short, this sword is decent in the hand and looks fantastic, if a bit off. However, its value to me comes from its story - whether as a weary warrior re-forged for one last stab at glory, or simply a continuation of one of the longest-lived sword lineages in modern history.