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Post by bebut on Dec 10, 2022 20:55:07 GMT
2 long winded videos--
Both don't make a clear distinction between swords and short swords but come to the same conclusion. In an enclosed location like a hallway or bedroom a short pointy weapon like a gladius would be best.
One adds that maybe the other hand should have a tactical flashlight to temporarily blind the attacker. The other makes a good case for a buckler. Food for thought.
One made an interesting comment that if you gave an MMA fighter a (short) sword and a couple hours of practice he would be a formidable foe.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2022 22:05:18 GMT
I just watched the second video today, it was pretty good. I agree with him, a shield/buckler and a short sword (ideally doubly edged) would be fantastic for enclosed spaces
You could even hold a flashlight in your shield hand if your shield has leather straps for a handle
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 11, 2022 6:35:42 GMT
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Post by Murffy on Dec 11, 2022 15:44:28 GMT
I didn't realize the Romans attached flashlights to their swords. Learn something new everyday.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 11, 2022 16:24:08 GMT
Lux Egreditur Dorsualis (LED)! When the altilia run down, the Dark Ages began!
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Post by howler on Dec 11, 2022 20:30:52 GMT
I didn't realize the Romans attached flashlights to their swords. Learn something new everyday. Flashlights were not invented back then...they attached candles/torches to their swords.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2022 21:29:37 GMT
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Post by mountainsylph on May 10, 2023 17:14:30 GMT
2 long winded videos-- Both don't make a clear distinction between swords and short swords but come to the same conclusion. In an enclosed location like a hallway or bedroom a short pointy weapon like a gladius would be best. One adds that maybe the other hand should have a tactical flashlight to temporarily blind the attacker. The other makes a good case for a buckler. Food for thought. One made an interesting comment that if you gave an MMA fighter a (short) sword and a couple hours of practice he would be a formidable foe. There are quite a couple types then I think, it then narrows down to I think whether gladius shaped or leaf shaped is better. There's also quite a few medieval short pointy swords. Leaf shapes, idk how much room is needed for swings seem to inflict wide thrust wounds. Whereas gladiuses or qamas, idk are those just faster in comparison? Would most historically swords which were properly made have held up to common modern blunt weapons like crowbars/bats and walls/obstacles or not?
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Post by mrstabby on May 10, 2023 18:56:12 GMT
Adding my 5 cent: Keep in mind that you will need to cut through the clothing too, which can be a challenge depending on the blade's sharpness and the clothing article, so the self defense blade would need to be quite sharp to cut through a thick sweater for example. Speed would be a big advantage here, since it benefits cutting more than weight, and the human body is more adept at moving less mass at high speed than high mass at slower speeds. So you get more "damage" out of a light blade than a heavier one if wielded with the same effort. There don't seem to be that many short swords from the middle ages, for them the arming sword with 25" was the short one . The next step down would be daggers I think there are some pretty long ones around. If you mean by "historical swords" reproductions made from 10 series or spring steel: I think a sword will take a big amount of damage when defending against a heavy crowbar or an aluminium bat, might fare better against wood, but the impact when defending will probably bend the blade. When hitting the other object I think there would be less damage, since the sword is lighter and therefore the impact has less energy but it still wouldn't be very good. If a wall is hit, the tip will get scratched up pretty good if its concrete (no real idea what drywall would do), it would lose a great deal of sharpness in that case and might bend or break the tip too, but it will still be a dangerous weapon, especially if it has a second edge. I have seen what happens to a 1055 throwing knife when it hits concrete, and it survived surprisingly well. A wooden stud might take your sword from you, and maybe leave a twist in the blade, but not much sharpness lost. Glass will f-up your blade royally. If you mean by "historical swords" originals: There is so much variance in materials there that there is no telling how it would act, but most will be inferior than even low-end modern production.
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Post by Drunk Merchant on May 12, 2023 21:36:41 GMT
There wouldn’t be much point in it unless you’re a Canadian country star being eaten by a pack of mutant man eating coyotes www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2022/12/15/prey-switching-blamed-for-death-of-toronto-woman-mauled-by-coyotes-13-years-ago.htmlBut the PowerPoint shooting stance could be coupled with a short sword on the off hand, something like that Owaki turned gunto would be the right size and length to ensure if they go for your gun their fingers get sliced off first. Realistically though just shoot them after you positively identify them and are sure they’re a life and death threat. Emergencies aren’t a time to play with your weapons and see what works best. Do whatever gives you an unfair advantage.
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Post by Drunk Merchant on May 12, 2023 21:38:29 GMT
Yea gonna second this. The legal battle Will probably cost more than the stuff lol Cough carry insurance cough cough. But yeah don’t shoot or slice off someone’s arm unless they pose a clear danger to you or loved ones. 2 long winded videos-- Both don't make a clear distinction between swords and short swords but come to the same conclusion. In an enclosed location like a hallway or bedroom a short pointy weapon like a gladius would be best. One adds that maybe the other hand should have a tactical flashlight to temporarily blind the attacker. The other makes a good case for a buckler. Food for thought. One made an interesting comment that if you gave an MMA fighter a (short) sword and a couple hours of practice he would be a formidable foe. Yeah I would rather get advice in a life and death situation from a competent instructor, a lot of those are vets and know what they’re doing. Not Shadiversity who’s kind of famous for being a heavy set youtuber who larps with questionably effective and accurate techniques.
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Post by mrstabby on May 13, 2023 7:05:47 GMT
When you have a gun, a sword will not help. Better hold the gun with both hands and just shoot if the attacker goes for it. I would be in equally deep trouble if I cut the intruder or shoot at him/her. Either is using a deadly weapon. A police officer told me once don't do warning shots since they count the same as if you would have shot the intruder directly, same legal trouble (EU). I'd catch an attemped murder charge, and if its deemed lawful it gets dismissed either way.
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Post by Drunk Merchant on May 13, 2023 7:40:51 GMT
Probably, know I don’t bother with knives but it’s said to drill with being proficient with one hand because a huge chunk of the street defense case studies end with the defender having to use the off hand to fend off a grappling attempt if you can’t use it well with one hand, or it’s unchambered you might die. USA law is more permissive, if someone breaks in and moves towards you, carjacks you, threatens you with a deadly weapon etc it’s out of hand treated as justified in most states.
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Post by mrstabby on May 13, 2023 8:13:07 GMT
Getting robbed isn't very common here. And the law works both ways too, so most burglars dislike holding up someone with a weapon since it adds to jail time. Burglars will wait till you are out rather that rob you at gunpoint. Armed attacks almost exclusively happen to stores with expensive goods, and then 50% of the time its a blank gun. There are some countries, where you can't get guns but the armed crime rate is very high, then anything is better than unarmed. I'd say a gun and a grappling hand is better than a gun and a knife, since the weapon in your non dominant hand will be less useful or even easy to get away from you. It's like the whole dual wielding vs sword + buckler debate. And if you want to dual wield, why not two guns in the first place? Also when you are in a rolling-on-the-floor fight, the chance you hurt yourself with your own knife is pretty high. With a gun there is certainly more control.
I was thinking more about home defense than getting robbed on the street in my posts.
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Post by mountainsylph on May 13, 2023 10:34:51 GMT
There don't seem to be that many short swords from the middle ages, for them the arming sword with 25" was the short one . The next step down would be daggers I think there are some pretty long ones around. Well there is this one, atleast you could call it the Medieval European counterpart to the Wakizashi? Given that it has only a 50-ish centimeter blade length like most gladiuses and leaf blades: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/70800/legacy-arms-knights-riding-swordAnd there's the Georgian Qama which survived to have alot of use in the early 20th century I believe or 1800s. Probably because of its small size just like for the Kukri although its not as well known. So are you implying that something Gladius shaped would outperform? Leaf shapes were made for a time before armor (Metal or cloth) were very developed but not sure how they could compare yeah. Its also possible that leaf shapes might have been used against snakes or wild animal attacks besides against human attackers given their hacking power and wide stab wounds, hence the stories of people fighting snake-like beasts with them I think. No comparison has been done so far, between the gladius, leaf shape or that of the 'Knight's Riding Sword' on the market (Idk what particular historical model that one is based on however).
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Post by mrstabby on May 13, 2023 11:06:48 GMT
I don't know why you differentiate between gladius and leaf shaped blades, some gladius were leaf shaped. Gladius and qama (which are both much older than the middle ages, the qama is a copy of the gladius as far as I remember and came later) are cut and thrust while the knight swords and daggers are more thrust oriented, so which is better depends on how you use it. Will you stab at stuff? will you slash at stuff? Do bot maybe? The leaf shape will cut easier since there is less contact area than a straight edge. The straight edge will handle stabs better because it does not have a narrow section.
EDIT: I think it goes as follows: The greek used the xiphos with a leaf shape, romans liked it and appropriated its shape as the gladius and over time straightened the blade edges, to fit their "stab out from behind the shield" tactics, where the leaf was weaker than the straight. Then the persians liked the roman gladius and made the qama. Anybody correct me if I remember wrong.
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Post by Drunk Merchant on May 13, 2023 19:56:21 GMT
Getting robbed isn't very common here. And the law works both ways too, so most burglars dislike holding up someone with a weapon since it adds to jail time. Burglars will wait till you are out rather that rob you at gunpoint. Armed attacks almost exclusively happen to stores with expensive goods, and then 50% of the time its a blank gun. There are some countries, where you can't get guns but the armed crime rate is very high, then anything is better than unarmed. I'd say a gun and a grappling hand is better than a gun and a knife, since the weapon in your non dominant hand will be less useful or even easy to get away from you. It's like the whole dual wielding vs sword + buckler debate. And if you want to dual wield, why not two guns in the first place? Also when you are in a rolling-on-the-floor fight, the chance you hurt yourself with your own knife is pretty high. With a gun there is certainly more control.
I was thinking more about home defense than getting robbed on the street in my posts.
There’s a reason two guns was seldom done apart from rare cowboy and pirate antics which were more often than not just a New York reload variation. Try getting good groups. What’s the point when a one semi auto can lay down a high volume with devastating precision. It does make a lot of sense to drill with the off hand though since you may be forced to use it. I could see a good knife being an advantage to simply a grappling hand if yore female or at a size disadvantage. If you don’t have the mass to confidently fend off a grappler, then a well placed sharp knife could easily make the other side’s tendon’s and fingers useless. Obviously if it’s life and death repeatedly shooting center mass is preferable but makes sense for someone in the always lose algorithm for grappling to have an alternative. Then again like you said, a hidden backup 380 could probably do more. This is probably irrelevant anyways since despite my crazy act I don’t run around loaded with guns and swords and seldom feel the need to carry (really just on road trips and stuff) so most people will hopefully never need and even if they did a microcompact 380 would be enough for like 99.9% of the freak bad luck cases where they would want to be armed. If guns aren’t allowed, I guess some places must teach how to knife fight which is the case for places like Brazil. Really though I go with the simplest method available and handguns are not just concealable but very easy to become good with. Also one last point: make your home defense weapon something you would not mind losing. Even if the police from the get go recognize it as a justifiable use case they will temporarily take your weapon as evidence and by the time they return it it’ll be a rust bucket. So if an emergency necessitates use of a weapon use something cheap and reliable, not a rare 2000$ gun or sword if you can help it.
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Post by mrstabby on May 14, 2023 7:49:29 GMT
Also one last point: make your home defense weapon something you would not mind losing. Even if the police from the get go recognize it as a justifiable use case they will temporarily take your weapon as evidence and by the time they return it it’ll be a rust bucket. So if an emergency necessitates use of a weapon use something cheap and reliable, not a rare 2000$ gun or sword if you can help it. Yeah, thats a good point and something to keep in mind. Even if you get it back, will it be undamaged? Who knows how safe their evidence gets stored.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 17, 2023 17:37:43 GMT
I’ve long advocated a sword and shield. And to me a shield carries the same importance as the sword. The question then arises as to type. I’ll say up front that a firearm trumps a sword. In some countries firearms are extremely hard to obtain and if a person obtains one from the black market while protecting one’ll have at least one charge against them in addition to whatever else the government chooses. So back to excluding firearms. I feel a shorter sword advantageous, at least for me as I’ll be in the house. While a gladius is good it was originally intended to be part of a weapons system, a sword and shield and that’s where it earned its reputation. Personally, I would depend on my cutlass, but certainly do not hold it head and shoulders above other blades such as a machete or kukri. I would be depending on my shield, most likely leading with it as a right-handed boxer would lead with his left when making an opening. But I’m experienced enough to know that there is no way in hell that I can sit here behind my computer and predict what will happen. I’m experienced fighting in the streets with a stick multiple times and once with a sword, but that is entirely a diferent story. As for a shield, I have two that I feel comfortable using, the third is too heavy and tiring. Although either way, I don’t expect the fight to last more than a few seconds, this is not Hollywood. One is a 12” buckler and the other is a 23” centre held round shield. That one gives more protection and handles like the buckler, light and fast. However, the rope border will cause the loose of effect compared to the steel edge of the buckler, but then I’m mainly making an opening. I designed it to contra machetes, and will trap a machete long enough to get in one power cut or thrust. A second choice is a powerful torch that will blind the adversary. It’s hanging next to the 23” shield, but I can use only one at a time.
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Post by mountainsylph on May 18, 2023 2:13:44 GMT
I’ve long advocated a sword and shield. And to me a shield carries the same importance as the sword. The question then arises as to type. I’ll say up front that a firearm trumps a sword. In some countries firearms are extremely hard to obtain and if a person obtains one from the black market while protecting one’ll have at least one charge against them in addition to whatever else the government chooses. So back to excluding firearms. I feel a shorter sword advantageous, at least for me as I’ll be in the house. While a gladius is good it was originally intended to be part of a weapons system, a sword and shield and that’s where it earned its reputation. Personally, I would depend on my cutlass, but certainly do not hold it head and shoulders above other blades such as a machete or kukri. I would be depending on my shield, most likely leading with it as a right-handed boxer would lead with his left when making an opening. But I’m experienced enough to know that there is no way in hell that I can sit here behind my computer and predict what will happen. I’m experienced fighting in the streets with a stick multiple times and once with a sword, but that is entirely story. As for a shield, I have two that I feel comfortable using, the third is too heavy and tiring. Although either way, I don’t expect the fight to last more than a few seconds, this is not Hollywood. One is a 12” buckler and the other is a 23” centre held round shield. That one gives more protection and handles like the buckler, light and fast. However, the rope border will cause the loose of effect compared to the steel edge of the buckler, but then I’m mainly making an opening. I designed it to contra machetes, and will trap a machete long enough to get in one power cut or thrust. A second choice is a powerful torch that will blind the adversary. It’s hanging next to the 23” shield, but I can use only one at a time. What are your opinions on how leaf bladed swords compare? The reason why I differentiate btw is that most later gladiuses ended up being straight edged.
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