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Post by Murffy on Oct 4, 2022 19:01:26 GMT
If they are there to steal, everything is replacable. Run like hell and worry about it later. Your words double plus good. I like to think there's nothing that I own that's worth killing someone for, or even substantially harming them. In some frontier-type scenario, however, where your survival depends on the stuff you have, then defending it vigorously makes sense.
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Post by howler on Oct 4, 2022 20:21:34 GMT
Does your *stuff* have a value that makes it worth defending? You need to look at motivation. If they are only there to do you harm, that's one scenario. If they are there to steal, everything is replacable. Run like hell and worry about it later. And if all else fails... "One may also employ the sexy dance fighting of Brazil: Capoeira" (thanks for the laugh Ouroboros) Yeah, using a blade to stop a sizeable force of thieves using various knives, bats, machete to protect personal belongings would be kinda crazy. Run like Hell while calling the police. Now, if it's a knife wielding punk or two with knives and you have a firearm, they are gonna get a draw down and threat to shoot while telling them I'm calling the cops (whether I did or not). Remember, there is also a risk of running out the back because you can't know completely there is not someone else out there, and of course, being hunkered down behind locked doors with a gun (while hopefully the police are on their way) is a pretty good defense.
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Ouroboros
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Imperial, Mysterious In Amorous Array
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Post by Ouroboros on Oct 5, 2022 13:35:32 GMT
"One may also employ the sexy dance fighting of Brazil: Capoeira" (thanks for the laugh Ouroboros) "Jazz...Brazil...Ponytail!" (For those who are scratching their heads: The cartoon Bobs Burgers features a character and episodes about Capoeira. It is to this I am referencing.) Use whatever is at hand: sword, gun, attack leopards, kitchen chair, dog* Then: Run away...live for another day. No escape? Better have already practiced this plan. Go get 'em Rex. (* i deleted a bunch of text around being prepared, knowing your home and how to use common items as weapons in a melee....practicing situations so you dont have to make semprini up as you go along, "Mr jacky Chan" we all aint sorry... if you think you might need to defend "stuff" (insure it) in what could slide downhill quickly into you risking your life, you cant or dont want to run, you better already know exactly what you can use and how to get to your arsenal. Well..i deleted all that semprini since its bad advice. I would advise anyone who fears for their safety or that of their family to invest the time, training and money in a dog or dogs. You dont need an attack dog or a bull pitty but a loyal mid to large dog that will defend you long enough for you (your kids, spouse or others) to get away or, in the extreme off chance, to subdue an attacker or get to your heavy artillery.) Dogs have other benefits too: water dogs are known to rescue children in distress upon the water, setters and retrievers and hounds for hunting, cattledogs and collies for herding, oh my...You also get a family member, a friend and a buddy, an alarm and a never ending source of fur everywhere!
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 5, 2022 14:48:21 GMT
I like hypothetical fighting scenarios with swords but it makes no sense to me to imagine an unwinnable situation. And I think several thugs with clubs, machetes and knives can't be beaten by a man with a sword, except they're dumb as bread like in the movies. Even if one uses the wide continuous swinging montante twohander style to keep them at distance they just have to wait til one is tired enough. I'd say it's hard enough to fight a single armed opponent in a doorway (with shield and gladius btw.). If you lose and run away, you can win another day!
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Post by blackprince on Oct 7, 2022 0:34:27 GMT
Does your *stuff* have a value that makes it worth defending? You need to look at motivation. If they are only there to do you harm, that's one scenario. If they are there to steal, everything is replacable. Run like hell and worry about it later. I want to fourth or fifth this. Also, for the price of one or two swords, you can buy insurance and get your stuff replaced later.
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Post by toddstratton1 on Oct 17, 2022 8:02:22 GMT
Does your *stuff* have a value that makes it worth defending? You need to look at motivation. If they are only there to do you harm, that's one scenario. If they are there to steal, everything is replacable. Run like hell and worry about it later. And if all else fails... "One may also employ the sexy dance fighting of Brazil: Capoeira" (thanks for the laugh Ouroboros) Yea gonna second this. The legal battle Will probably cost more than the stuff lol I dont know other places but here in US most armed home invaders will kill or attack anyone who is present in the home.they dont just leave you be if youre standing near them. And if they are in your home any means self defense id allowed. Unless they turn their back to flee and you shoot them from behind running away from you. Fire arms are best and often if someone doesnt have a gun they are with someone who does or others who might be hiding around a corner. Most will run if a homeowner shoots. With a sword? You better immobalize them fast before anyone else gets a chance to jump in.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 17, 2022 13:54:53 GMT
There are similar threads on this forum, if you care to look. All weapons have their advantages and disadvantages. I like thrusting swords, or having thrusting abilities. But in a melee a thrust has distinct disadvantages. Assuming the action will take place in your home I suggest a blunt force type of weapon that could be kept in motion. However, the disadvantage is that you will need room to swing it. If you go for a blade, a short cut and thrust swords would be good. My favourites are kukris and cutlasses with both being used in narrow passages to prevent envelopment. I would value a shield as much as the weapon itself. As for tutorials, they are out there. I can’t think of any offhand but over the years I’ve stumbled across them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 19:13:31 GMT
Yea gonna second this. The legal battle Will probably cost more than the stuff lol I dont know other places but here in US most armed home invaders will kill or attack anyone who is present in the home.they dont just leave you be if youre standing near them. And if they are in your home any means self defense id allowed. Unless they turn their back to flee and you shoot them from behind running away from you. Fire arms are best and often if someone doesnt have a gun they are with someone who does or others who might be hiding around a corner. Most will run if a homeowner shoots. With a sword? You better immobalize them fast before anyone else gets a chance to jump in. That's definitely unique to USA. Most people in Canada are usually robbing garages or empty houses. They might attack you if startled, I'm not sure about that one, but not many people here take guns with them to rob houses. In fact, most people don't have a gun here. I've heard of break and entries done with machetes, bat's, bear mace, tire irons and the like. Against those, a sword, a shield, and maybe some goggles, would be more than enough. But in Canada, if someone comes in your house, and you both have a gun and use a gun, you are either dying or going into some extreme legal battle that will end with a bunch of people making a parade in the criminals name and chanting for your head. This country is stupid Is my stuff worth more than his life? One thing I don't get is why I have to ask myself that. Why can't the criminal ask himself if his life is worth my stuff. But I live in Canada
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Post by howler on Oct 17, 2022 19:36:03 GMT
Yea gonna second this. The legal battle Will probably cost more than the stuff lol I dont know other places but here in US most armed home invaders will kill or attack anyone who is present in the home.they dont just leave you be if youre standing near them. And if they are in your home any means self defense id allowed. Unless they turn their back to flee and you shoot them from behind running away from you. Fire arms are best and often if someone doesnt have a gun they are with someone who does or others who might be hiding around a corner. Most will run if a homeowner shoots. With a sword? You better immobalize them fast before anyone else gets a chance to jump in. With regards to home invaders (armed or unarmed), what they will do to people present in the home is a somewhat complicated thing to answer. Did they case the joint and know people are home? Are they startled upon finding people in the home? In any case, you have to be prepared for worst case. In any event, most criminals make an attempt to break into empty homes, and if they find out someone is home they run away. If you sleepily walk into a room that is being burgled and startle them, yeah, trouble.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 19:39:42 GMT
I dont know other places but here in US most armed home invaders will kill or attack anyone who is present in the home.they dont just leave you be if youre standing near them. And if they are in your home any means self defense id allowed. Unless they turn their back to flee and you shoot them from behind running away from you. Fire arms are best and often if someone doesnt have a gun they are with someone who does or others who might be hiding around a corner. Most will run if a homeowner shoots. With a sword? You better immobalize them fast before anyone else gets a chance to jump in. With regards to home invaders (armed or unarmed), what they will do to people present in the home is a somewhat complicated thing to answer. Did they case the joint and know people are home? Are they startled upon finding people in the home? In any case, you have to be prepared for worst case. In any event, most criminals make an attempt to break into empty homes, and if they find out someone is home they run away. If you sleepily walk into a room that is being burgled and startle them, yeah, trouble. Yea that's usually how it is. If they are theives, it's usually just stuff they want not a battle. It seems that the last people in Canada who were going house to house to kill people, Usually knocked on the door, pretending to need assistance. Luckily, our murderous types aren't very hard workers
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Post by toddstratton1 on Oct 17, 2022 20:13:37 GMT
I dont know other places but here in US most armed home invaders will kill or attack anyone who is present in the home.they dont just leave you be if youre standing near them. And if they are in your home any means self defense id allowed. Unless they turn their back to flee and you shoot them from behind running away from you. Fire arms are best and often if someone doesnt have a gun they are with someone who does or others who might be hiding around a corner. Most will run if a homeowner shoots. With a sword? You better immobalize them fast before anyone else gets a chance to jump in. With regards to home invaders (armed or unarmed), what they will do to people present in the home is a somewhat complicated thing to answer. Did they case the joint and know people are home? Are they startled upon finding people in the home? In any case, you have to be prepared for worst case. In any event, most criminals make an attempt to break into empty homes, and if they find out someone is home they run away. If you sleepily walk into a room that is being burgled and startle them, yeah, trouble. Me as a potential victim I would leave no chances and aim to incapacitate anyone within my own home as quickly and efficiently as possible. If they aren't already scared off by my presence being home and definitely if they try to approach me when breaking in. If I had a gun I will shoot warning shots. But I will leave nothing to chance in that situation. I live in NYC currently and a ton of people get killed or left with being maimed, shot, permanent brain injury etc even after surrendering their stuff over to people who rob them on the streets and etc. People who break into apartments and houses are even more aggressive and willing to take risk/ don't care about consequences. There are those who break in who just hope to steal and don't want any aggressive confrontation in which case they would be the ones to flee, if they don't and they come closer to the person who is home never should you listen to following all their orders and just hope to be at their mercy. I have seen some absolutely heinous stuff done to innocent non aggressive people. I would never give any trust or hope to someone like that to hold back, in case they are of the insane variety lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 21:21:06 GMT
With regards to home invaders (armed or unarmed), what they will do to people present in the home is a somewhat complicated thing to answer. Did they case the joint and know people are home? Are they startled upon finding people in the home? In any case, you have to be prepared for worst case. In any event, most criminals make an attempt to break into empty homes, and if they find out someone is home they run away. If you sleepily walk into a room that is being burgled and startle them, yeah, trouble. Me as a potential victim I would leave no chances and aim to incapacitate anyone within my own home as quickly and efficiently as possible. If they aren't already scared off by my presence being home and definitely if they try to approach me when breaking in. If I had a gun I will shoot warning shots. But I will leave nothing to chance in that situation. I live in NYC currently and a ton of people get killed or left with being maimed, shot, permanent brain injury etc even after surrendering their stuff over to people who rob them on the streets and etc. People who break into apartments and houses are even more aggressive and willing to take risk/ don't care about consequences. There are those who break in who just hope to steal and don't want any aggressive confrontation in which case they would be the ones to flee, if they don't and they come closer to the person who is home never should you listen to following all their orders and just hope to be at their mercy. I have seen some absolutely heinous stuff done to innocent non aggressive people. I would never give any trust or hope to someone like that to hold back, in case they are of the insane variety lol. Yea man, I hear you. I agree entirely. As far as things go, the advice I give isn't always the stuff I would do either, but I don't like to give advice that would get anyone in trouble either
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tera
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Post by tera on Oct 18, 2022 15:35:08 GMT
General real-world advice is to consult legal counsel and/or seek appropriate training. This wanders from the sword-specific question slightly but I feel is worth mentioning.
Regarding one example mentioned above, in my State of residence, the law does not provide for "Warning Shots". Discharge of a firearm in the presence of a threat with intent to miss and intimidate is, in court, indistinguishable from a shot to the heart.
So, around here, my trainers and law enforcement advisors during training emphasized the phrase "Shoot to stop a threat". No threat, don't shoot. Threat stops, don't shoot. They point out that if YOU are the one feeling threatened, there is some flexibility in the definition of when YOU felt threatened based on your experience through the event. But, that is how my State's law is written.
Also, generally, there is such thing as personal protection insurance. Should you find you must defend yourself, you will likely have an expensive legal battle ahead. Some insurance companies offer packages to help cover trial expenses, expert witnesses, and some even offer stipends for psychological care as that was likely a traumatic event requiring recovery.
In short, internet hypotheticals can be fun but fighting for one's life isn't. So, if you feel that may be a real possibility worth preparing for check with legal counsel qualified to speak about your local laws and personal situation.
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Post by Murffy on Oct 18, 2022 16:36:37 GMT
>YOU are the one feeling threatened
From a legal standpoint, this seems pretty subjective. I'd prefer a more concrete definition of what being legitimately threatened means.
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JakeH
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[k4r]
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Post by JakeH on Oct 18, 2022 20:45:10 GMT
>YOU are the one feeling threatened From a legal standpoint, this seems pretty subjective. I'd prefer a more concrete definition of what being legitimately threatened means. You say that until you are acting in legitimate fear of your life and then wind up in jail because you did, or didn't, quite meet the requirements of Section 12, subsection 3, paragraph i, subparagraph iv, clause 5. Laws, and the definitions therein are written by people who are (sometimes) well-intentioned, but often haven't the vaguest notion of reality. Either way it's a crapshoot. Especially in Canada. To mostly misquote Eddie Greenspan the famous Canadian defense lawyer: "If I get him acquitted it'll cost him every penny and he'll be happy about it. If I don't, well, he won't need the money anyway" Example, a fellow in Provincial detention was jumped in a hallway by multiple, armed, assailants. He was successful in defending his life, but was convicted of assault and specifically refused the affirmative defense of 'self-defence' because in a review of the CCTV footage it was found at one point he moved TOWARDS his attackers and therefore wasn't defending. Note, this is a quick, simplified version of the incident. Again, Canada is stupid. Consult legal counsel. Your mileage may vary. Void where Prohibited. Some assembly required. May contain peanuts.
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Post by Murffy on Oct 18, 2022 21:06:11 GMT
If I'm in genuine fear of my life, I'll defend myself as best I can and face whatever consequences need to be faced.
But shouldn't there be some kind of concrete threshold we can offer to avoid it boiling down to the word of the person who's defending himself?
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Post by howler on Oct 18, 2022 21:39:29 GMT
If I'm in genuine fear of my life, I'll defend myself as best I can and face whatever consequences need to be faced. But shouldn't there be some kind of concrete threshold we can offer to avoid it boiling down to the word of the person who's defending himself? I fear the subject of self defense to be an eternal gray area of infinite subjective nuance, particulars, details, all used (for good and ill) by the legal, political, law enforcement professions. One man's concrete is another man's quicksand...and visa versa. You do YOUR best with the most information while taking the subject deadly serious!
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tera
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Post by tera on Oct 19, 2022 5:18:07 GMT
>YOU are the one feeling threatened From a legal standpoint, this seems pretty subjective. I'd prefer a more concrete definition of what being legitimately threatened means. You are very correct, and this is a perfect example of why I suggested consulting legal counsel/obtaining proper training. In my State use of deadly force is justified if you perceive a threat to your person necessitating that response (VERY paraphrased). Use of deadly force in defense of any OTHER person requires such threat of harm "in actual fact." Here's a hypothetical case. Someone draws a gun on you in a carjacking. You honestly believe that if you comply you will be killed anyway to leave no witnesses. Our law of castle applies to vehicles and self-defense via use of deadly force may be legally justified. YOUR perception of a threat, as long as reasonably believed, may not even get you arrested if it is clear-cut. Next case, you walk by a parking garage and witness someone draw a gun, giving demands as though carjacking someone else. You draw, fire, and fatally wound the would-be attacker with one shot, intending restraint as you saw the gun drop on the first hit. Then people start screaming, including the driver, who cradles the dying "perp". In actual fact, that was a prank between friends. The gun was a prop, and the perp was the Best Man "abducting" the groom for his bachelor party. "In actual fact" there was no threat. You'll likely face manslaughter for that one. Same scenario, different contexts. Defense of self and defense of others have different standards here. That's where I live, though. Country/State/Local laws vary. Hence, why it's helpful to talk to legal folks who know what's what. Sorry for the tangent, the legal advice I was given by the State tends to be in the context of firearms but we may also conceal carry practically anything here, to include knives or swords (if you could pull that off). Don't get me started on how an NFA item complicates things. That WOULD belong in the Firearms sub-forum.
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Post by bebut on Nov 15, 2022 14:21:24 GMT
Your weapon is your brain, the rest are tools. Everything can be replaced? How about your dignity? Or your family? Or your dog, for that matter. How do you retreat when you are on the 3rd floor or your windows have welded bars or your back fence is 9 ft. tall plus serpentina wire? Canadian or American legal stupidity are not excuses for all actions in all situations. No guarantees in this world, but your greatest chance for survival are willingnes to draw first blood and continue until all attackers are down or gone. If you don't have a sword, a kitchen knife and a long screw driver may have to serve.
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alinkinthechain
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Post by alinkinthechain on Nov 17, 2022 1:55:50 GMT
No guarantees in this world, but your greatest chance for survival are willingnes to draw first blood and continue until all attackers are down or gone. If you don't have a sword, a kitchen knife and a long screw driver may have to serve. As a martial artist and one who has modern combat training, I wholeheartedly disagree. Your greatest chance at survival is to avoid conflict all together. Run, hide, fight, whatever it may be, if you can avoid having harm come to you this is the best case scenario. Drawing first blood may only get you killed. I do see the advantage and tactical value in what you say, but it is not the "best chance at survival"
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