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Post by bas on Feb 12, 2022 8:47:29 GMT
Man, this is something else! Absolutely wonderful collection! With the good and clear pictures, the wealth of information and meticulous numbers your thread should be stickied. Really, we're looking at an excellent sabre book. For free. Thank you very much! I hope you have all this on a USB stick and/or in the cloud for backup? Cheers. Hi Uhlan, Thanks for the feedback I keep it all stored on OneNote so, its backed up to the cloud. Being a lot more meticulous this time round…..
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Post by bas on Feb 12, 2022 12:10:55 GMT
1796 Pattern Infantry Officers' Sword
This is a pattern of sword that never really grabbed me. If I was being honest, I'd describe it as rather vanilla, truely just an upscalled smallsword, and not even a pretty one at that. Coupled with their lackluster reputation (justifications aside), I didn't think I would ever own one. I reality I only ever expected to own a single 1796 Pattern Heavy Cavalry Dismounted service sword with the boatshell guard (more the fool me!).
Then I was shown this sword... and my opinion quickly changed, I was still mindful to get one that was functional. And while it's not the strongest one out there, I think it holds it's own. Regardless, I am very happy that I bit the bullet and aquired it.
Length Over All: | 945 mm
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| Blade Length: | 790 mm |
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| Curve: |
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| Point of balance: | 100 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 720 grams |
|
| Total Weight:
| 930 grams
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|
| Guard
|
|
|
| - Length (Across the hand)
| 76 mm
|
|
| - Width (Across the hand)
| 93 mm
|
|
| - Height (Including langets)
| 9.6 mm
|
|
| - Thickness
| 4.0 / 1.8 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 40 mm
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|
| Grip
|
|
|
| - Outside Length
| 157 mm
|
|
| - Inside Length
| 106 mm
|
|
| - Width
| 29.4 to 19.0 mm
|
|
| - Thickness
| 22.7 to 20.0 mm
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|
| Blade Width
|
| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 26.3 mm
| 7.7 mm
| 5.0 mm
| - 200mm
| 22.4 mm
| 5.0 mm
| 2.3 mm
| - 400mm
| 20.2 mm
| 4.0 mm
| 2.1 mm
| - 600mm
| 17.7 mm
| 2.8 mm
| 1.9 mm
| - 750mm
| 14.1 mm
| 2.2 mm
| 1.5 mm
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Feb 12, 2022 13:28:13 GMT
The P1796 is beautiful indeed.
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Post by bas on Feb 13, 2022 20:57:40 GMT
This next sword is typically described as a "Flank Officers" sabre, a description mostly based on the observation in 1797 that most officers of the Flank companies, i.e. the Light Company, the Grenadiers, and (after 1800) the Rifle Companies were carrying curved, cavalry style swords rather than the straight regulation one. Some regiments even went so far as to have their own regimental pattern (like the famous 95th Rifles). This trend culmulated in official recognition of the practice with the acceptance of the 1803 pattern. However, a significant number of British officers carried their own personal non-regulation swords rather than the standard one. Some of which are well documented with known examples, like the mamelukes dress swords carried by the Lancers. While sources are as obsure as a recount of a sword fight where the officer used a crooked sword, or that light cavalry officers (who had no regulation dress sabre) would carry a lighter version of their regular sabre when in dress uniform.
Then there is the issue of the Militia, the Volunteers and the Yeomanry who were even looser and faster with the regulations than the regular army. So in reality, all we can say about this sabre, is that it is British of the Georgian era.
The sword itself is extremely light with a thin, curved unfullered blade. A fashion statement (after the Mamelukes of Egypt) more than functional. Unfortunatly the grip is worn but the blade is beautifully etched with the voids filled in with gilding, a feature that drew me to the sword. This unique etching is seen on other similar blades so it possible that it is a regimental variation.
All in all an interesting sword that fills another gap in the muddled group at are "Georgian Era Swords"
Length Over All: | 865 mm
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| Blade Length: | 745 mm |
| Curve: | 60 mm
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| Point of balance: | 160 mm |
| Sword Weight: | 530 grams |
| Total Weight:
| 940 grams
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| Guard
|
|
| - Length (Across the hand)
| 110 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 21.3 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 18.2 mm
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| - Thickness
| 4.3 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 52.3 - 41.1 mm
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| Grip
|
|
| - Outside Length
| 102 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 92.8 mm
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| - Width
| 33.0 to 29.3 mm
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| - Thickness
| 22.8 to 17.8 mm
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| Blade Width
|
| Blade Thickness
| - Ricasso
| 31.4 mm
| 5.6 mm
| - 200mm
| 28.2 mm
| 3.6 mm
| - 400mm
| 27.0 mm
| 2.8 mm
| - 600mm
| 25.2 mm
| 2.0 mm
| - 700mm
| 18.1 mm
| 1.3 mm
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Post by pellius on Feb 13, 2022 21:35:04 GMT
Awesome sabers Great info Thank you for sharing
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Post by bas on Feb 14, 2022 20:12:20 GMT
The last sword for the time being, I do have a 1889 IOD I can add but I'm on the fence, if I should or not.
This sword is another one of those obscure British Officer swords of the Georgian era that draw from the Light Cavalry styles. The scabbard locket is marked "BRUNN Sword Cutler to the Prince Regent 56 Caring CroSs London" which places the swords date to between 1811 and 1820.
From 1800 to 1811 Brunn use "By Appointment to H.R.H The Prince of Wales" which changed to "The Prince Regent" from 1811 to 1820. He also changed address once, situated at 55 Charing Cross from 1799 - 1804, while his address was listed in 1805 as 56 Charing Cross.
Samuel Brunn was one of the priemier sword cutlers of the Georgian era, which is reflected in the workmanship of this sword. Unfortunately there are unique identifiers on the sword to give us a clue as to who it was for, so we can only speculate that it was a well to do gentleman that wished to retain a solid blade.
The half lions head pommel is fairly typical of infantry officers swords of the time, but again there is evidence that this style was used by Naval, Artillery and Cavalry officers as well. And the short length would certainly have been more practical on a ships' deck or behind an artillery battery than on a horse. One other clue is the absence of a frog studd on the scabbard locket, meaning that this sword was only ever intended to be carried on a belt (as opposed to a sword baldric).
But as always, everything is pure speculation, there were just too many fashion consencious officers in the armed forces at the time to make any hard and fast rules.
Length Over All: | 810 mm
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| Blade Length: | 695 mm |
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| Curve: | 57 mm
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| Point of balance: | 130 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 720 grams |
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| Total Weight:
| 1,140 grams
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| Guard
|
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 123 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 27.4 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 30.6 mm
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| - Thickness
| 4.5 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 42.8 mm
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| Grip
|
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| - Outside Length
| 106 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 89 mm
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| - Width
| 34.8 to 30.5 mm
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| - Thickness
| 21.9 to 19.1 mm
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| Blade Width
|
| Blade Thickness
| Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 39.5 mm
| 9.0 mm
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| - 200mm
| 35.4 mm
| 4.6 mm
| 2.3 mm
| - 400mm
| 33.6 mm
| 3.3 mm
| 1.9 mm
| - 600mm
| 32.8 mm
| 1.6 mm
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| - 690mm
| 7.8 mm
| 1.0 mm
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Post by bas on Mar 7, 2022 19:41:21 GMT
After sitting on the fence for a while on the decision to get or not to get one of the English made 1796 LC sabres that came out of the Rijksmuseum in 2020, I bit the bullet and bought one. As my first real 'fighting sword' I've always been a bit disappointed with the Solingen made m1813 No.1 that I originally acquired. I kept reading about how different real swords balanced vs reproductions and how the 1796 LC was an excellent sabre. So imagine my surprise when I wielded my newly acquired sabre, with it's 210mm POB and 990gram bare weight, it felt more like a long cleaver than a sabre. Since then I've acquired other swords plus two officers 1796 LCs and the difference in handling is day and night. So, I've long wanted a British made 1796 LC trooper to measure the German-made m1813 against: Dutch issued 1796 Pattern Light Cavalry Troopers Sabre (or Light cavalry sabre m1813 No.1)
At the turn of the 19th Century, Northern and Southern Netherlands had been occupied by French revolutionary 'Liberation' forces and in 1806 Napoleon made the occupation official by proclaiming his brother, Louis the king of Holland. In 1810 the kingdom was abolished and integrated into the French Empire. As part of the French Empire, Dutch forces participated in several battles, including the invasion of Russia (1812) and the defeat at the battle of Leipzig (1813). Which resulted in the withdrawal of France from the Netherlands. The Kingdom of the Netherlands was formed in November 1813 under King William I to act as a buffer at France's Northern border. The southern region was incorporated in August 1814 with official unification finalised in March 1815. Although this unification was short-lived, with the succession of Belgium in 1831. Newly independent the young Kingdom quickly set about the business of raising a new army to protect itself with. Raising a lot of infantry, and foot artillery, several units of horse artillery a transport battalion and four regiments of cavalry. Two regiments of heavy 'shock' cavalry and two light cavalry for reconnaissance and pursuit. While there was no lack of volunteers, with veterans from the Napoleonic wars filling the ranks, weapons were in short supply. Naturally, significant material had been left by the French, but further orders for weapons were placed with the British, Belgium and Germany to arm the heavy cavalry, light cavalry, horse artillery and transport units. This cumulated in three new sword designs for the Dutch cavalry, the m1814 No.3 (HC.3) for the heavy cavalry, the m1813 No.1 (LC.1) and the m1813 No.2 (LC.2) for the light cavalry, mounted artillery and transport units. While the HC.3 and the LC.2 were new models clearly inspired by earlier French designs. The m1813 No.1 was the British pattern 1796 light cavalry sabre, designed by John Gaspard Le Marchant. The first order for these swords was placed directly from Britain and began to arrive by the end of 1813. Based on the markings on the swords in collections, many can be dated back to 1811, indicating that they came directly out of existing stocks to be sold to The Netherlands. It is possible that the speed of delivery was an attractive option as a 'stop-gap' measure while other swords were being produced. Regardless, The Netherlands placed more orders for LC.1s between 1814 and 1819, but this time they turned to the sword makers John und Abm Schimmelbusch & Sohn, A Schimmelbusch & Co, Schnitzler & Kirschbaum and the Weyersberg brothers of Solingen. In 1829 the LC.1 was officially replaced with the introduction of the Light Cavalry Sword No.3 (m1814 No.3) but many remained in service and were re-issued to the Mounted Jaegers who retained them as long as 1851. In 1881 this sword along with hundreds like it were turned over from the Artillery Depot in Brielle to the Rijksmuseum and put on display in the hall of trophies in the Eastern Courtyard, there they remained until the end of the Second World War when they were cleaned and placed in storage. This sword is marked along the back of the spin with I.Gill, believed to be John Gill (often people used the Latin version of their name, hence the I instead of the J). John Gill, a son of the famous Thomas Gill, took over the business when his father died in 1801. On the blade there is the Crown over 8 British ordinance stamp. Further stamps include the Dutch Crown over V inspection stamps on the langet, furrell and scabbard drag. The crossguard has two unit markings, 100 on top of the knuckle bow for the original regimental sword number and J 365 under the quillion, added when the sword was re-issued to the Jaegers de Paard or 'Hunters on Horse'. Unfortunately, the scabbard belongs to sword number J 43 and it is likely that this miss-match occurred when the museum collection was cleaned and placed into permanent storage. Source: ‘Charge! Cavalry Sabre Sale, International sabres in Dutch service 1807 – 1840’, The Hague, Venduehuis, 2020.
Length Over All: | 945 mm
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| Blade Length: | 820 mm |
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| Curve: | 55 mm
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| Point of balance: | 190 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 880 grams |
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| Total Weight:
| 1,910 grams
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 132 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 31.0 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 34.4 mm
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| - Thickness
| 4.8 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 48.1 to 68.3 mm
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| Grip
|
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| - Outside Length
| 115 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 99.8 mm
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|
| - Width
| 36.4 to 31.8 mm
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| - Thickness
| 31.2 to 26.1 mm
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| Blade Width
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| Blade Thickness
| Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 39.6 mm
| 7.9 mm
| 3.2 mm
| - 200mm
| 35.6 mm
| 4.7 mm
| 2.3 mm
| - 400mm
| 34.5 mm
| 4.5 mm
| 1.7 mm
| - 600mm
| 38.0 mm
| 2.2 mm
| 1.5 mm
| - 700mm
| 39.0 mm
| 1.9 mm
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| - 780mm
| 30.0 mm
| 1.7 mm
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Post by bas on Jun 17, 2022 3:44:56 GMT
A new parcel has arrived, which means that more updates to this thread are on the way...
Spanish / Italian Cup Hilted Smallsword or Transitional Rapier In Northern Europe, following France’s lead, civilian sword fashion of the 17th and 18th centuries gradually shifted away from the rapier towards the smallsword. The shorter, more compact hilt and lighter smallsword was better suited to everyday wear and perfectly adequate as a weapon for self defence. The countries of Southern Europe like Spain, Portugal and Southern Italy on the other hand persisted with the rapier and were disdainful of the new French fencing system. In these countries, the rapier evolved into it’s final and arguably best form, the cup-hilt. A style that’s identifiable by it’s distinctive bowl guard and long quillons. However, while it was a great sword, the cup hilt rapier still suffered from the same drawbacks that saw them fall out of favour elsewhere. They remained large, cumbersome and heavy swords to be wearing all day, every day. Creating a daily burden for something that you hope to never have to use and gradually practicality won out in favour of perfection. Over time, swords became shorter and lighter adopting a form that more closely resembled the French smallsword. Since these swords were used in the style of fencing practiced in Southern Europe, a style that teaches both the thrust and cut, or grips the sword differently, there are several distinctive features that sets them apart from the French inspired swords which were only used in the thrust. In period, they would have simply been called a spada in Italy or espada in Spain, which literally translates to sword. Now, with our modern desire to look back and catalogue everything, the fall into a grey area. Too small to be considered rapiers they are generally too large to be called a smallswords. Sometimes people refer to them as transitional rapiers, as a group of swords that bridges the gap between the rapier and smallsword. This sword from the late 18th century is an example of the type and displays many of the features that distinguish it from the regular smallsword: • Functional annelets or a cup guard that allow for a grip where the finger hooks over the quillons. • Lozenge or hexagonal cross section blades to retain a functional cutting edge at the tip. • Longer and heavier blades. It’s physical properties are more in keeping with a military spadroon than a smallsword, and it is entirely possible that it originally was carried by and infantry officer. The cup guard is a single piece of brass and is held against the shoulder of the blade by the false ricasso. The grip is also solid brass decorated to look like wire and tape binding. It is possible that the whole guard was originally gilded, although none remains now. The long blade is fullered in the forte (or strong) with decorative piercings that probably help take away some of the weight as well. It’s marked with a variation of the anchor and cross that is fairly commonly seen on blades of the time.
Length Over All: | 1060 mm
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| Blade Length: | 880 mm |
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| Curve: | n/a
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| Point of balance: | 60 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 640 grams |
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 115 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 83 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 47 mm
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| - Thickness
| 2.1 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 30 to 34 mm
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| Grip
|
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| - Outside Length
| 135 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 95 mm
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| - Width
| 18 to 28 mm
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| - Thickness
| 17 to 22 mm
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| Blade Width
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| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 24.2 mm
| 8.2 mm
| 3.0 mm
| - 200mm
| 14.2 mm
| 5.4 mm
| 2.1 mm
| - 400mm
| 12.4 mm
| 4.2 mm
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| - 600mm
| 11.1 mm
| 3.3 mm
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| - 800mm
| 8.0 mm
| 2.3 mm
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| - 850mm
| 5.7 mm
| 1.7 mm
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Post by bas on Jun 17, 2022 8:29:28 GMT
This one has such a beautiful finish on the brass. I wonder if that is just an especially interesting-looking example of a patina or if there is something special done to it? I see what you mean and believe that its been polished. but I couldn't tell you if any sort of extra coating has been applied.
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Jun 17, 2022 12:37:23 GMT
It’s been a while since I’ve followed your posts due to time restraints so it took a bit of reading. As always I enjoyed, but still haven’t caught up. Thanks as always and keep the posts coming.
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Post by bas on Jun 20, 2022 3:39:39 GMT
Another British 1803 Pattern Sword for Officers of Grenadiers and Light Infantry. This one is by Prosser and has the initials W.W.B engraved into the guard and the top scabbard fitting. While we can never be sure it is the same gentleman, there is a William Walden Borme serving with the 10th Regiment of Foot, from 1794 to 1814:
- October 1794 joined as ensign (second Lieutenant).
- August 1795 promoted to Lieutenant by purchase.
- August 1804 promoted to Captain.
- June 1814 promoted to Major.
Length Over All: | 930 mm
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| Blade Length: | 807 mm |
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| Curve: | 51 mm
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| Point of balance: | 145 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 780 grams |
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| Total Weight:
| 1130 Grams
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 120 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 56 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
|
|
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| - Thickness
| 5.4 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 52 to 54 mm
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| Grip
|
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| - Outside Length
| 115 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 93 mm
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| - Width
| 28 to 34 mm
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| - Thickness
| 25 mm
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| Blade Width
|
| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 35.1 mm
| 8.7 mm
| 4.1 mm
| - 200mm
| 31.7 mm
| 5.1 mm
| 1.8 mm
| - 400mm
| 30.9 mm
| 4.4 mm
| 1.6 mm
| - 600mm
| 32.0 mm
| 2.7 mm
| 1.1 mm
| - 750mm
| 30.6 mm
| 2.1 mm
| 0.9 mm
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Post by bas on Jun 20, 2022 21:27:07 GMT
British 1788 Pattern Light Cavalry Trooper’s Sabre.
Prior to 1788, there was no standard pattern of cavalry sword for the British army. Instead, each regiment’s colonel was allotted an annual payment from which he was expected to supply the clothing and equipment for the men. This resulted in each regiment having, essentially their own uniforms and pattern of sword.
In November 1787 the Adjutant General wrote to the commanding officer of each light dragoons regiment asking them to send his office with an example of their regimental trooper sword. A board of General Officers was convened in March of the following year to examine each sword and decide on a standard pattern. Furthermore, they debated the merits of sword vs sabre and British vs German made blades (which were seen to be of superior quality).
On 16th June 1788 they released their decision, one that was almost as vague as the 1786 pattern for Infantry officers:
‘The Hilts to be of the same form as those now used by the Light Dragoons - and to be Five Inches Long in the Grip’
Regarding the blade, they specified:
‘The Blades to be Thirty-Six Inches long - and the Curve in the Centre to be One Inch and three Quarters from the straight line - The Breadth to be One Inch and One Half at the Shoulder - The Blade to be three Eights of an Inch thick and to finish about Eleven Inches from the Point.’
The new pattern swords would be procured by the Board of Ordnance to a sealed pattern for makers to work from. But in practice a lot of variation remains in surviving examples.
This sword is of the type typically manufactured in Solingen and imported by J J Runkel and marked with a ‘crown over arrow’ Ordnance Board inspection stamp. Although this is a troopers’ sabre, the blade shows various Eastern / talismanic decorations that were in fashion during the late 18th Century. The scabbard and grip retain its’ original back paint. While the grip is made from a wood core wrapped in cord and covered in leather.
Length Over All: | 1045 mm
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| Blade Length: | 900 mm |
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| Curve: | 51 mm
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| Point of balance: | 190 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 820 grams |
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| Total Weight:
| 1700 grams
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|
| Guard
|
|
|
| - Length (Across the hand)
| 138 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 31 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 42 mm
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| - Thickness
| 6.2 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 46 mm
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| Grip
|
|
|
| - Outside Length
| 130 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 105 mm
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|
| - Width
| 43 to 33 mm
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| - Thickness
| 31 to 25 mm
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| Blade Width
|
| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 38.7 mm
| 9.3 mm
| 2.9 mm
| - 200mm
| 33.4 mm
| 5.4 mm
| 2.0 mm
| - 400mm
| 32.3 mm
| 4.8 mm
| 2.0 mm
| - 600mm
| 31.7 mm
| 3.7 mm
| 1.7 mm
| - 800mm
| 29.6 mm
| 1.8 mm
|
| - 850mm
| 25.8 mm
| 1.4 mm
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Post by bas on Jun 21, 2022 21:12:45 GMT
Mounted Infantry Officers Sabre with ‘Branches Tournantes’ - Rotating branches.
It is generally believed that this non-regulation style of sabre, with the rotating guard appeared around 1784, possibly corresponding to the Chasseur a Pied or Hunters on Foot, a Light Company style infantry unit that engaged in scouting and skirmishing actions. To distinguish themselves from the regular line infantry, many officers adopted this model with an iron guard to match the silver on their uniforms. Swords with brass guards followed around 1786 as officers of the line began to adopt the sabre for themselves as well. And on 14th May 1788 a Royal decision was announced, authorizing them to carry a sabre rather than a sword. While predominantly taken up by infantry or naval officers, some were carried by mounted officers as well, and can be identified by their length and having three instead of two scabbard fittings so that it could be suspended from the officers’ belt. Their use continued through the revolution, and they remained in service until around 1798 when they fell out of fashion. This type of sword is a unique attempt to solve the issue of providing maximum hand protection when in use while being less of an encumbrance when worn at the side. They came with varying degrees of decoration from plain oval guards with one or two folding branches to pierced guards or even a full collapsing basket.
The mechanism is simple with the branches pivoting on their anchor points on the guard plate and a pin where they join the pommel. A piece of spring steel with a pin, holds the branch in place when extended and there is a button attached to the end to release it to fold back for when not in use. On this sword, the two side branches fold out to offer plenty of space for the hand, but because of where the branches meet with the pommel, the sword is not suited to point work (like many basket hilts).
The ricasso is engraved with the makers name which reads:
Cassaignard Fourbisseur Du Roi à Nantes
Or translated:
Cassaignard, Cutler of the King in Nantes.
Cassaignard operated out of Nante from 1774 to 1812 as a Fourbisseur, an old French term for someone that finishes edged weapons, i.e. mounting hilts, decorating and polishing the blades. Being a port city, his mark in various forms appears on a lot of swords associated with Naval officers or Privateers. Due to the use of ‘Du Roi’ in the makers mark, we can be reasonably confident that this blade pre-dates the denouncement of King Louis XIV in 1792 when it became common practice to remove or deface the symbols of his reign.
The other decorations include the talismanic man in the moon, face in the sun and sword arm protruding from a cloud. These are typical of Solingen made blades, where Cassaignard likely purchased his stock from, and this combination of three items feature often on blades with his mark.
Length Over All: | 920 mm
|
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| Blade Length: | 788 mm |
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| Curve: | 16 mm
|
|
| Point of balance: | 135 mm |
|
| Sword Weight: | 810 grams |
|
| Total Weight:
| 1180 grams
|
|
| Guard
|
|
|
| - Length (Across the hand)
| 100 mm
|
|
| - Width (Across the hand)
| 112 / 68 mm
|
|
| - Height (Including langets)
| 13 mm
|
|
| - Thickness
| 2.0 mm
|
|
| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 56 to 30 mm
|
|
| Grip
|
|
|
| - Outside Length
| 130 mm
|
|
| - Inside Length
| 108 mm
|
|
| - Width
| 36 mm
|
|
| - Thickness
| 31 mm
|
|
| Blade Width
|
| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 39.1 mm
| 8.6 mm
| 4.4 mm
| - 200mm
| 33.5 mm
| 4.4 mm
| 1.5 mm
| - 400mm
| 32.6 mm
| 3.7 mm
| 1.8 mm
| - 600mm
| 32.1 mm
| 2.4 mm
| 1.7 mm
| - 750mm
| 20.5 mm
| 2.1 mm
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Post by bas on Aug 15, 2022 3:30:12 GMT
While I hadn’t been actively looking to add another spadroon to my collection, I have a soft spot for this style of hilt with the S shaped sidebar, so I put in a bid when this one came up at auction.
In typical Georgian fashion, it is a difficult sword to place in time and use. The strapless grip, urn pommel, cigar band, reeded ebony grip and the side-ring guard are all typical features of 1780-1790’s fashion. And normally, I’d categorise this as the type of sword described in the 1786 regulation and call it such for the sake of convenience.
The blade (like many at the time) was imported into the United Kingdom by J J Runkel and has his name engraved on the spine. The GR under the Crown cypher denotes that it was carried by a military officer (either militia or regular army) and some of the other engravings have an artillery theme to them so may have belonged to an artillery officer. Although the Solingen produced blades normally have generic decorations on them, so it is possible that the connection only exists in my mind.
However, the blade has also been engraved with the post 1801 Royal Coat of Arms which allows us to make a reasonable estimate of its’ age; somewhere between 1801 and 1808 but presents the challenge that this doesn’t match the date for this style of hilt.
Which leaves us with some possible reasons for the odd combination: - The sword is a composite, some recent dealer had the hilt and blade spare and decided to put them together to make a complete sword to sell.
- The original blade was replaced while in service
- The sword was originally made this way to the officers’ specifications.
Normally I’d say the first explanation is the most likely one, it is something that happens frequently. However, in this instance, the peen is steeped to match the shape of the pommel something that took time and effort. Something a modern assembler wouldn’t likely what to invest in the sword. Also, the overall wear of the pommel and peen matches the rest of the sword. With these combined factors, I am reasonably confident that the blade and hilt have been together for a long time. Another interesting feature of this sword is the blade. All the Runkel imported blades in my collection are solid, functional blades that do not skimp on materials to save money. This blade starts off similarly robust with a strong forte but slims down to a thin narrow tip in the last 200mm making it quite flexible at the point. Given the other Runkel blades, I can only assume that this was by design. Length Over All: | 995 mm
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| Blade Length: | 825 mm |
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| Curve: |
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| Point of balance: | 95 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 620 grams |
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| Total Weight:
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 115 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 59 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 23 mm
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| - Thickness
| 3.4 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 41 to 30 mm
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| Grip
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| - Outside Length
| 165 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 116 mm
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| - Width
| 28 to 21 mm
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| - Thickness
| 23 to 20 mm
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| Blade Width
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| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 26.4 mm
| 9.6 mm
| 4.6 mm
| - 200mm
| 21.8 mm
| 5.5 mm
| 1.3 mm
| - 400mm
| 19.2 mm
| 4.5 mm
| 1.5 mm
| - 600mm
| 16.3 mm
| 3.6 mm
| 1.8 mm
| - 800mm
| 12.0 mm
| 1.5 mm
| 1.0 mm
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Post by pellius on Aug 15, 2022 23:06:10 GMT
Gorgeous!
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Post by bas on Aug 16, 2022 3:04:43 GMT
Thanks for moving the thread Pellius, I've added a contents list to the first post with links to each sword for easy reference.
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Post by bas on Aug 16, 2022 3:15:46 GMT
1796 Pattern Light Cavalry troopers' sabre by Thomas Gill:
Made by Thomas Gill sometime between 1796 and 1801 it is inscribed with his famous guarantee of quality: “Tho. Gill’s Warranted never to Fail” on the blade.
Thomas Gill (the second) was one of the best sword makers of his time and introduced the “Warranted” quality mark that was later picked up by many other sword makers of his period. With his passing, his sword making business went to John Gill, one of his sons and later Elizabeth Gill when John passed away.
Length Over All: | 955 mm
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| Blade Length: | 828 mm |
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| Curve: | 60 mm
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| Point of balance: | 165 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 800 grams |
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| Total Weight:
| 1,820 grams
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 127 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 30.8 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 34.0 mm
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| - Thickness
| 4.6 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 67 to 43 mm
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| Grip
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| - Outside Length
| 116 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 100 mm
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| - Width
| 35 to 26 mm
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| - Thickness
| 28 to 22 mm
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| Blade Width
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| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 36.5 mm
| 9.0 mm
| 3.3 mm
| - 200mm
| 32.6 mm
| 6.2 mm
| 1.2 mm
| - 400mm
| 32.1 mm
| 5.0 mm
| 1.1 mm
| - 600mm
| 33.1 mm
| 3.4 mm
| 0.8 mm
| - 770mm
| 36.3 mm
| 1.3 mm
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| - 800mm
| 22.1 mm
| 1.3 mm
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Post by bas on Aug 21, 2022 22:15:41 GMT
1796 Pattern Heavy Cavalry Officers Undress Sword
Rounding out my collection of 1796 Pattern swords, is the 1796 Pattern field service sword for officers of the Dragoons. More commonly called the 1796 Heavy Cavalry Officers Undress sword. Part of the equipment an officer was required to purchase when he acquired his commission, were several sets of uniforms for different occasions. This included their field and dress uniforms. For Dress and dismounted service, the regulations stipulated that the officer carry doubled edged cut and thrust sword with gilt boat-shell guard. (Officers of the Light Horse also had a ‘Frock’ or dress sword, but this was a scaled down version of their regular sword). The regulations of 1788 required all cavalry officers to have the same pattern of service sword as his men, and while the blade profile was adopted, officers of the Dragoons ended up using a new style of hilt. Often called the ‘ladder hilt’ or ‘first pattern honey suckle guard’ not a lot is known about the design and why it was chosen but given how ‘industrial’ the guard on the regular 1796 heavy cavalry troopers sword is, simple ascetic appeal can’t be ruled out.
As with all officer swords of the time, there are a number of variations in the hilts. Typically, they will have a leather covered grip with twisted silver wire. They are found with and without the grip tabs on the back-strap and very occasionally with langets extending from the guard. There appears to have been standard to the detailing on the bowel guard which were either symmetrical or asymmetrical to various degrees. The blades were broad hatchet tipped back-swords that, depending on the officers’ taste or the depth of their purse, were either plain or decorated with blue and guilt designs. Being a sword for mounted use, the scabbard was of steel construction for better protection of the swords blade.
My example has a plain, heavy blade that is close to the specifications of the standard trooper’s sword. Regrettably it is without its’ scabbard.
Length Over All: | 1,025 mm
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| Blade Length: | 900 mm |
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| Curve: | 3 mm
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| Point of balance: | 190 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 1,000 grams |
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 128 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 126 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 12.1 mm
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| - Thickness
| 2.3 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 49 mm
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| Grip
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| - Outside Length
| 125 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 109 mm
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| - Width
| 40 to 31 mm
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| - Thickness
| 25 to 23 mm
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| Blade Width
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| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 37.2 mm
| 10.0 mm
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| - 200mm
| 33.6 mm
| 5.9 mm
| 2.4 mm
| - 400mm
| 32.4 mm
| 4.8 mm
| 1.9 mm
| - 600mm
| 31.2 mm
| 4.3 mm
| 1.8 mm
| - 800mm
| 32.7 mm
| 2.0 mm
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| - 880mm
| 15.9 mm
| 1.3 mm
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Post by bas on Aug 22, 2022 20:57:35 GMT
This sabre is another one of those Georgian mystery swords that doesn’t quite conform to the rules modern day collectors like to apply to everything. Nominally it looks like a 1796 Pattern Light Cavalry officers’ sabre with a pipe-back blade.
A pipe-back blade is a style of blade that came into fashion in the very last years of the 18th Century. It is not known if the design originated in France or Britain, but it is likely that it is a modification of the T-cross section popular on the Kilij swords of the Ottoman Empire. By re-enforcing the blade with a bar of steel, or ‘pipe’ along the spine, it allows for a thinner, sharper blade.
While we see early examples of pipe-back swords, particularly amongst the officers of the light cavalry (although there are examples of heavy cavalry and infantry officer swords with them as well) it isn’t really until the 1810s that they came into any form of prominence. With the design becoming standard in later pattern swords.
Like many swords of the time, this one is un-marked, so it is impossible to determine its exact age. However small features like the lack of a yelman on the tip and the keyhole scabbard throat would roughly place it around 1810 – 1818.
Most of the pipe-back sabres can be confidently attributed to the officers’ branch of service by the type of hilt, length of blade or what scabbard they have. This sabre, however, has a steel stirrup hilt, which could be rifles or light cavalry, however its’ blade at 805 mm is long for a rifles officer while short for a cavalry officer. The leather scabbard is unsuited for mounted use, but regulation for a cavalry officers’ dress sword and typical for a rifles officer. Of course, there were other mounted services that were issued the 1796 Pattern light cavalry sabre, such as the mounted artillery and the soldiers of the baggage train. So it could have belonged to an officer of either service as well, and in a way such a sword would made sense for a mounted artillery officer, who would normally expect to do most of his actual fighting on foot from a set position and need to defend himself while his guns were deployed. In contrast to the light dragoons, who would fight mostly from horseback.
Ultimately, we are unlikely to ever know, but it is a quality sword showing the fine attention to detail the craftsmen of the era paid to their art to make a what is a fairly simple hilt stand out.
Length Over All: | 925 mm
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| Blade Length: | 805 mm |
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| Curve: | 40 mm
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| Point of balance: | 65 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 630 grams |
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| Total Weight:
| 1,010 grams
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 115 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 25.6 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 23 mm
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| - Thickness
| 4.1 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 58.6 - 41.8 mm
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| Grip
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| - Outside Length
| 110 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 95 mm
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| - Width
| 38.2 to 32.5 mm
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| - Thickness
| 25.6 to 21.6 mm
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| Blade
| Blade Width
| Spine Thickness
| Blade Thickness
| - Ricasso
| 32.8 mm
| 8.3 mm
| 3.5 mm
| - 200mm
| 31.6 mm
| 5.2 mm
| 2.0 mm
| - 400mm
| 29.5 mm
| 5.0 mm
| 1.6 mm
| - 600mm
| 31.0 mm
| 3.4 mm
| 1.5mm
| - 790mm
| 12.9 mm
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| 1.6 mm
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Post by bas on Sept 4, 2022 23:13:47 GMT
As so frequently happens, just when you say to yourself that you have enough examples of a type in your collection, something else crosses your path that grabs your attention….
Like many smallswords, this example is difficult to place in a specific region; but going by the decoration style and the way the guard screws on the pommel, it is most likely of German or Northern European origin, from the late 18th or early 19th Century.
Smallswords were carried at this time by military officers, court officials or wealthy gentlemen in many nations and the vast majority don’t follow any specific pattern. So, in absence of a makers or nationalistic marking we can only guess to a swords’ origin.
The blade on this smallsword is too dark to clearly make out what remains of the original markings but is visible is typically seen on Solingen blades. Not very helpful when we consider the sheer mass of blades exported by the region over history.
For me, each smallsword is a unique item, a piece of a ‘gentleman’s uniform / jewellery’ so I like to see examples that reflect a small cross section of all the different styles. What attracts me to this sword is the gilt 'a la Francaise' boatshell hilt, the use of ebony wood for the grips and the long, trefoil blade. The sword strikes me as being not too ostentatious, and a practical weapon. Length Over All: | 995 mm
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| Blade Length: | 824 mm |
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| Curve: |
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| Point of balance: | 35 mm |
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| Sword Weight: | 430 grams |
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| Total Weight:
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| Guard
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| - Length (Across the hand)
| 107 mm
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| - Width (Across the hand)
| 77 mm
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| - Height (Including langets)
| 28 mm
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| - Thickness
| 2.2 to 1.6 mm
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| - Inside (Grip to guard)
| 35 to 32 mm
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| Grip
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| - Outside Length
| 135 mm
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| - Inside Length
| 100 mm
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| - Width
| 26 to 20 mm
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| - Thickness
| 20 to 17 mm
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| Blade Width
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| Blade Thickness
| Thickness Inside Fuller
| - Ricasso
| 22.0 mm
| 9.3 mm
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| - 200mm
| 14.6 mm
| 6.6 mm
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| - 400mm
| 11.4 mm
| 5.6 mm
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| - 600mm
| 8.6 mm
| 4.9 mm
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| - 800mm
| 4.5 mm
| 2.6 mm
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