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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 2:45:38 GMT
we are soulmates.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 2:59:16 GMT
Man I bet we could have endless conversations if we wanted haha. Swords? Paganism? Each, on their own, are topics with endless discussable sections.
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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 3:42:50 GMT
i have lit the sage
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 4:31:29 GMT
yalda, you should celebrate december 21. every culture celebrated that day,from the beginning of time. thanks, sirthor. i'd love to learn etching.
Cultures have celebrated the solstice early on but the Gregorian calendar only dates to 1582, with some still using other reckonings of the winter and summer solstices. Authentic Third Reich daggers are not hard to find. Expensive but plentiful. Contraband in Germany (iirc). schweizerdolch/holbein daggers evolved along with baselards There are plenty of newly made daggers of the types Germany used in the 20th century. A&A has a nice one www.arms-n-armor.com/collections/daggers/products/alpine-daggerDragging the Third Reich into discussions outside of dedicated boards is no different than hot headed politics of any nature. Let's do abortion and the death penalty next, shall we? rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nazi_analogiesIn many circles going back to 8k phone modems and the original bb discussions, the first use of the term Nazi basically labels anything following moot en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_lawTo the topic, all period weapons were made to kill and maim. That makes any able object to fulfill a need, or aversion in acquiring such. One of my early antiques weapons was is a Moro spear hafted as a dagger. The rework seems 19th century but the spear may have been much, much older. So, what untold stories might I find behind it? It does speak to me a great deal but I don't look for some hidden message or aura but it does project such more than many of my period swords. I was mostly attracted to it as unique and the gold work is individual leaves on individual stems in the butt. Cheers GC
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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 6:22:09 GMT
the third reich was only tangential. i was discussing a symbol i would prize without being a nazi sympathizer.
i'll look around for one of those daggers.
the calendar doesn't matter only the solstice does. i didn't want to upset people.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 7:14:33 GMT
it's irritating that hitler has been allowed to take things for his own. he still owns them. i'm told grampa had a hitler mustash right til WWII started, now no one can wear that facial hair. i like the swastika. it's a pagan symbol n has been long before recorded history. i am pagan but i can't use that symbol for myself. one evil guy that didn't even use the swastika as a religious icon has taken possession of it for all eternity. he still has power. yeah, i'd love a dagger with a swastika on it, but if i got one i'd have to bury it deep or i'd be accused of being a neonazi by everyone that saw it. I might as well have responded to this post but that's not really my point. You were not the first responding to the thread using Nazi as an example but it is a post that kind of lost track of feelings. Lots of people collect Third Reich stuff and the dagger type was regulation Swiss into the 1990s but you feel you would be labeled by owning such that was connected. I'd call that unenlightened. "i like the swastika. it's a pagan symbol n has been long before recorded history." That is (truly) not the case. If you can place it in time, the history has indeed been recorded Cheers GC
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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 9:17:50 GMT
That is (truly) not the case. If you can place it in time, the history has indeed been recorded Well, strictly speaking, "history" refers to time covered by written records, and the four-legged sunwheel does indeed predate written records, i.e. it's literally a prehistoric symbol. Anyway... wouldn't a triskele be even more appropriate for a modern athame?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 11:43:47 GMT
The symbol is a historical (written) record, in and of itself. In Edgar Cayce's book re Edmond Halley's theory, the direction represents the travel of the heavens in their skies (earth's rotation). Check out The Hollow Earth The forum, itself is snowing. Happy New Year GC
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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 16:16:23 GMT
mok, thank you for telling me that the proper name is 4 LEGGED SUNWHEEL. more descriptive without negative connotations.
gc,you are splitting hairs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 17:17:53 GMT
mok, thank you for telling me that the proper name is 4 LEGGED SUNWHEEL. more descriptive without negative connotations. gc,you are splitting hairs. While generally offering topical examples in derision of the sidebars. You folks have a great day Cheers GC
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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 17:32:25 GMT
mok, thank you for telling me that the proper name is 4 LEGGED SUNWHEEL. more descriptive without negative connotations. In all honesty, it is rather more of a description than a name, based on the popularity of this and related ciphers as solar symbols in several cultures. Specifying four legs or arms distinguishes it from the similar but three-limbed triskelion - speaking of which, tetraskelion ("four-legged") is another perfectly cromulent term for this symbol with few if any Nazi associations. Mind you, calling it something other than a swastika can run the risk of giving people the not entirely unreasonable impression that you're trying to hide something... *sigh* Frigging Nazis. Always ruining everything. For everyone.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 26, 2019 17:51:35 GMT
On the other side, there are hundreds or more known (pre)historic symbols, why has it to be the darn swastica?
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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 18:30:03 GMT
hoho, mok using tetraskelion would certainly avoid negative connotations. hardly anyone in the entire world, except yourself, would have any idea of what i was talking about.
gr, derision? from you? i'm shocked.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Dec 26, 2019 19:49:50 GMT
Why bother trying to find a way to continue using a symbol so indelibly tainted in the modern era?
There is certainly no shortage of other symbols from antiquity one can use to similar effect. The triskelion being a perfect example of a viable alternative, and one which lacks the negative associations of the swastika.
The calls of people claiming they want to "take back" the iconography co-opted by the Nazis (and other white supremacist organisations) are either accidentally or intentionally tone deaf.
You're not sticking it to the Nazis when you wear a t-shirt emblazoned with a tetraskelion. To the contrary, by doing so you're terrorizing the same people historically victimized by the hate-mongers who took that symbol as their own, while also displaying for everyone that you're some combination of oblivious, ignorant, and cruel.
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Post by howler on Dec 26, 2019 20:37:20 GMT
Everything that Nazis stood for belongs in a fire. Everything. No, it must be taught and shown and never forgotten for the evil that it was, so that it is never repeated.
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Post by howler on Dec 26, 2019 20:43:36 GMT
The symbol is a historical (written) record, in and of itself. In Edgar Cayce's book re Edmond Halley's theory, the direction represents the travel of the heavens in their skies (earth's rotation). Check out The Hollow Earth The forum, itself is snowing. Happy New Year GC Edgar Cayce is fascinating and amazing. Cool you mentioned him.
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Zen_Hydra
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Born with a heart full of neutrality
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Dec 26, 2019 21:11:40 GMT
Everything that Nazis stood for belongs in a fire. Everything. No, it must be taught and shown and never forgotten for the evil that it was, so that it is never repeated. I agree that the evils of Nazism needs to be taught as an object lesson on how easy it is for people to sell out their humanity for a handful of self-aggrandizing fictions. Human tribalism has been the root cause of so many of our vilest atrocities. However, we certainly don't need to sell antiques and reproductions of Nazi paraphernalia knowing full well that many will end up in the hands of those who sympathize, fetishize, and mythologize the Nazis and what they stood for. I can think of no justifiable reason that a decent person would need to own a Nazi flag, uniform, or weapon. Museums dedicated to teaching subsequent generations about the evils of Nazidom are the place for such things. Anything symbolic of that movement which isn't being actively used to express that we will never again allow that cancer to act unopposed, should be destroyed.
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 26, 2019 21:46:37 GMT
I am reminded, suddenly, of the uproar and outrage among the anime community when one of the characters in Bleach had a "swastika" tsuba.
No, it's a manji. It's Buddhist.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 21:56:42 GMT
Why bother trying to find a way to continue using a symbol so indelibly tainted in the modern era? There is certainly no shortage of other symbols from antiquity one can use to similar effect. The triskelion being a perfect example of a viable alternative, and one which lacks the negative associations of the swastika. The calls of people claiming they want to "take back" the iconography co-opted by the Nazis (and other white supremacist organisations) are either accidentally or intentionally tone deaf. You're not sticking it to the Nazis when you wear a t-shirt emblazoned with a tetraskelion. To the contrary, by doing so you're terrorizing the same people historically victimized by the hate-mongers who took that symbol as their own, while also displaying for everyone that you're some combination of oblivious, ignorant, and cruel. For me it's just the use it has in spirituality that makes it valuable for me. I don't wear it though. I even have a necklace with a Slavic Thunder Cross, I just don't wear it cause it has similarities to a swastika. For me it's about connecting to a forgotten heritage in any way I can. I like to experience what it is to individually try recreate the beliefs of my heritage, even if it is flawed because I'm not actively practicing them with the group who created them. I try anything to make life a little less dull. But wearing a swastika arm band around the town would be more than I would enjoy doing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 21:57:31 GMT
I am reminded, suddenly, of the uproar and outrage among the anime community when one of the characters in Bleach had a "swastika" tsuba. No, it's a manji. It's Buddhist. yea this too. Just because Nazis appropriated symbols that already existed, doesn't mean we should let them destroy them.
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