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Post by howler on Dec 10, 2019 2:20:56 GMT
The Nazi arm band would seem much worse to me, as well as to the average person, but I'm sure there are individuals out there who may feel different if directly affected by evil hands wielding the Gunto. I believe Thulsa Doom (Conan The Barbarian) was right with his "hands that wield it" part regarding the riddle of steel. Guy walking down the street with a Nazi arm band...well...not much to figure out there unless it was a drunk kid on Halloween rocking the worst, most offensive costume possible. Why? They are both symbols of rank worn by members of regimes which commit a huge amount of horrible atrocities in their short lived life spans. The sword gets a pass because it's cool. Isn't that really what it comes down to? The Nazi arm band with Swastika symbol is unambiguous and unanimous in its literal connection to the most infamous organization in human history. I didn't even think about Gunto until you mentioned it, and I think there is certainly some negativity from what you say (maybe I'm more influenced by my particular region and upbringing, as are you if in different environment), but not NEARLY so clear and universal as a Swastika armband, and it would be hard to not "sucker punch" someone fool enough to wear it.
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Post by howler on Dec 10, 2019 2:25:09 GMT
I wouldn't want a gunto either, but in the western world they are far less recognizable for what they are. I would assume someone in America who has a gunto just likes katana and could only afford a crappy one, rather than being a supporter of imperial Japan. But if I were Chinese I think I would react harshly to it. There's also a distinct line between German stuff and Nazi stuff. Anything with Third Reich symbols on it is inexcusable to me. I think the example cited above of a Jew owning a Nazi dagger strains the imagination. I like the form of the Swiss dagger, but I would never own one with those symbols attached. Pretty well stated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 3:54:50 GMT
Mine wasn't a compromise purchase or an endorsement of imperialism. Koa Isshin Mantetsu was an interesting bit of engineering and this specific example came in mounts embellished with the mon my teacher used so I considered it an auspicious sign. If you haven't read it, japaneseswordindex.com/koa.htm and ohmura-study.net/998.html have some great information.
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 10, 2019 19:07:25 GMT
If people are offended by symbols, call them trophies.
A sword, armband, or whatever military paraphernalia you can think of stands a good chance of being a war trophy. Whether taken off a dead soldier or surrendered goods, either is a reminder of that "side" losing.
Unless some is that special kind who's trying to revive the ideology by aligning themselves with it and celebrating what it did, then that's different. However, simply collecting a piece of the past is just that. Many militaria collectors want both/all sides represented, so whether it's an Garand crossed over a K98 or [insert allied sword here] with a gunto, the things aren't hurting anybody anymore.
Hell, every time I see a listing for a Khyber knife anywhere online, about 70% of listings will claim they're "still used today," often for unspeakable things by nefarious ne'er-do-wells du jour. I still think they're impressive examples of design and happily collect them. If I had a chance to pick up an old, pre-war katana in "original" gunto mounts, and it had provenance linking it to Bataan, for the right price I'd think myself foolish to not pick it up. Do I think good things happened in Bataan? Hell no. Do I acknowledge it as an important part of world history that we should always remember? Hell yes. Would I be averse to owning a piece of it, myself? Nope. Guy who used it probably died holding it, killed by one of "our guys," and that's the part I'm linked to.
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Post by howler on Dec 10, 2019 20:30:53 GMT
If people are offended by symbols, call them trophies. A sword, armband, or whatever military paraphernalia you can think of stands a good chance of being a war trophy. Whether taken off a dead soldier or surrendered goods, either is a reminder of that "side" losing. Unless some is that special kind who's trying to revive the ideology by aligning themselves with it and celebrating what it did, then that's different. However, simply collecting a piece of the past is just that. Many militaria collectors want both/all sides represented, so whether it's an Garand crossed over a K98 or [insert allied sword here] with a gunto, the things aren't hurting anybody anymore. Hell, every time I see a listing for a Khyber knife anywhere online, about 70% of listings will claim they're "still used today," often for unspeakable things by nefarious ne'er-do-wells du jour. I still think they're impressive examples of design and happily collect them. If I had a chance to pick up an old, pre-war katana in "original" gunto mounts, and it had provenance linking it to Bataan, for the right price I'd think myself foolish to not pick it up. Do I think good things happened in Bataan? Hell no. Do I acknowledge it as an important part of world history that we should always remember? Hell yes. Would I be averse to owning a piece of it, myself? Nope. Guy who used it probably died holding it, killed by one of "our guys," and that's the part I'm linked to. Well stated. Context is pretty important in both how the items are displayed and if there is a pattern indicating the belief and promotion of an extremist negative ideology. Individuals can pretty much use their own common sense to assess the situation.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 13, 2019 15:20:13 GMT
If people are offended by symbols, call them trophies. Uh, no. Not unless you went and took it yourself.
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 13, 2019 16:00:28 GMT
If people are offended by symbols, call them trophies. Uh, no. Not unless you went and took it yourself. Someone else's trophy, then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 16:17:36 GMT
All of my acquisitions can be classified as trophies of my interests. Brand new or ancient. A prize or victory. a random abstract of definition " anything serving as a token or evidence of victory, valor, skill, etc.: a sports trophy. a symbol of success that is used to impress others: He bought the lavish home as a trophy. a carving, painting, or other representation of objects associated with or symbolic of victory or achievement."
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 13, 2019 18:49:40 GMT
Also that. That works, too.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Dec 20, 2019 19:07:09 GMT
You know...this discussion was enlightening. I was unaware of the history of the Gunto and a number of swords that were brought up. Definitely thought provoking. I suppose I need to put away my shrunken head collection now. Sigh But seriously, this was cool. It makes me review the why and look deeper, which is part of the reason forums exist, to educate.
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Post by susieqz on Dec 25, 2019 5:45:55 GMT
it's irritating that hitler has been allowed to take things for his own. he still owns them. i'm told grampa had a hitler mustash right til WWII started, now no one can wear that facial hair.
i like the swastika. it's a pagan symbol n has been long before recorded history. i am pagan but i can't use that symbol for myself. one evil guy that didn't even use the swastika as a religious icon has taken possession of it for all eternity. he still has power.
yeah, i'd love a dagger with a swastika on it, but if i got one i'd have to bury it deep or i'd be accused of being a neonazi by everyone that saw it.
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Post by MOK on Dec 25, 2019 23:29:28 GMT
Nazis ruin everything for everyone.
PS. I've removed a derail that used to be in this spot, in case some of you were wondering. Don't bring it back. The topic ban on current politics applies regardless of who or what you support or oppose.
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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 0:39:54 GMT
rats. i didn't see it n now i'm burning up with curiosity about what it was. it must have been interesting if it got deleted.
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Zen_Hydra
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Born with a heart full of neutrality
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Dec 26, 2019 0:45:46 GMT
Everything that Nazis stood for belongs in a fire. Everything.
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Post by MOK on Dec 26, 2019 0:52:11 GMT
rats. i didn't see it n now i'm burning up with curiosity about what it was. it must have been interesting if it got deleted. Just US politics as usual; you've seen it before, I guarantee. It gets deleted because people disagree about these things aggressively and we don't want the drama, not because it's particularly scandalous or anything. This has been PSA Minute with your host of the week, MOK! Now back to the topic at hand...
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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 1:42:54 GMT
ok, good. i didn't miss anything. no sense talking politics. all parties are equally corrupt.
but i've rethot my prior statement. if anyone know where to find aswastik dagger, please lemme know. it would make a great athame.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Dec 26, 2019 2:03:34 GMT
ok, good. i didn't miss anything. no sense talking politics. all parties are equally corrupt. but i've rethot my prior statement. if anyone know where to find aswastik dagger, please lemme know. it would make a great athame. So...without fanning any flames, if you find a dagger you like, etching is stupidly easy. Find the knife, and then search on how we've done etching. It means more if you did it anyway. Back to the thread at hand. And thanks Mok, you beat me to it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 2:09:58 GMT
it's irritating that hitler has been allowed to take things for his own. he still owns them. i'm told grampa had a hitler mustash right til WWII started, now no one can wear that facial hair. i like the swastika. it's a pagan symbol n has been long before recorded history. i am pagan but i can't use that symbol for myself. one evil guy that didn't even use the swastika as a religious icon has taken possession of it for all eternity. he still has power. yeah, i'd love a dagger with a swastika on it, but if i got one i'd have to bury it deep or i'd be accused of being a neonazi by everyone that saw it. Honestly? Word. I agree. As someone who practices a lot of pagan beliefs, it's disheartening that such an iconic symbol has to be lost to ignorance. On the side with the Nazis, and the people who condemn the symbol, not knowing its been part of many cultures in a way that doesn't imitate the current way we see it As a native American (tho a pale one) , im literally submersed in a holiday that celebrates the decimation of the ways of my people. So empathy is hard for me to come by
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Post by susieqz on Dec 26, 2019 2:22:31 GMT
yalda, you should celebrate december 21. every culture celebrated that day,from the beginning of time. thanks, sirthor. i'd love to learn etching.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 2:40:28 GMT
yalda, you should celebrate december 21. every culture celebrated that day,from the beginning of time. thanks, sirthor. i'd love to learn etching.
Normally I would have loved to do that. I have an alter kit I used to use on major days such as today and halloween, and even the summer solstice. I've put them away due to being in a place where I gotta hide that side of myself. But once I get a place I'll be burning Sage and lighting candles all over again 😎
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