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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2008 6:19:00 GMT
The swords I used Generation 2 to cut Mugen Dachi mats provided by Keen Mirror, soaked for 8 hours and left to drain.
I had some trouble initially until I was told that tatami likes to be cut diagonally rather then horizontally.
Six people from my WMA group participated in the cutting. We had about 5 mats each. Four varieties of swords were used by the various members in the group. Windlass, Generation 2, Atrim, and Albion. A number of types within those brands.
One of the swords used was the $1,800 Brescia Spadona from Albion. It bent during one of the cuts. In fact all the Type XVa bent including Angus Trim and my own Gen 2. Not a big deal. The instructor stated that this was normal for this sword type. My Gen 2 katana cut beautifully too, but got bent into an "S" and had to be straightened out. Again the instructor felt that this is normal.
Swords that had a less tapered wider blade did better across the board. We had a number of XXIIIa swords. We had an Atrim, Windlass, The Duke from Albion and my Original Gen 2 Blackprince that falls in this category. All cut the the mats easier then the type XVa and with no bending.
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 13, 2008 6:26:44 GMT
Not bad, tsafa. Not bad. Though on a lot of those I couldn't help but wonder if you might have put a little too much behind that thing... On a couple I'd have sworn the sword stopped inches from your own back. Other than that, you really showed that stand who's boss. Before the criticism comes rolling in, I'm a critic, not a performer. Of course I can watch, and no, I won't do it myself. (one day I'll try it out, gotta get the funds and materials first...) Odd that those swords bent, though. I'd certainly not think it "normal" myself...but if he says so.
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Post by salvatore on Apr 13, 2008 12:25:52 GMT
It did seem as if you were swiping too hard. You need to be swift to cut tatami, I am still perfecting my technique, I haven't yet achieved that level, either. But a sharp sword should be able to handle soft targets, either they were weak blades, or it was technique.
However, I cannot judge, I yet to have the skill or confidence to try this myself, so, until then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2008 13:49:25 GMT
Tsafa: You are trying to power the cut or force the cut and you seem to be trying to roll through the cut rather than let it slide. You don't chop tatami you have to slice it. You also have to control the cut, you are swinging through the full range of your motion and almost clobbering yourself. You need to pick a point just after where your cut is going to pass through and stop. Proper technique for cutting is about control in your technique. Keep cutting mate, you are doing well. I was rather surprised that the bresicca bent, I mean those swords are made to last and made to cut, I guess the guy using it just didn't know how to cut with it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2008 14:47:26 GMT
I agree I was overpowering the cuts and it was my first time cutting mats. In retrospect I only had five mats and I could only get two cuts out of each. The Third cut near the bottom was catching the bamboo that went through the stand and flipped it over. I actually cut the bamboo in one of the undercuts into a nice wedge. So I guess my attitude was I can only get so many cuts so I better make them count, hence the over powering. Next time we do mat cutting I will focus on technique. It won't be for while though.
The guy with the Bresicca was the most experienced cutter and the instructor as well. He was cutting effortlessly. He believes that while he was making one of the cuts the mat folded over as he cut it and he hit it again on the way out at an odd angle. He owns a number of Albions, Atrims and Arms and Armor swords and has done a lot of mat cutting over many years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2008 16:37:33 GMT
Yeah too much arm power when cutting mats WILL bend blades. You want to slice, not hack...like BW already mentioned.
Also that is one thing about cutting mats, DON'T recover. The mat can fold over and if your recovering, then it can torque and bend a blade no matter how good the actual cut was. Like BW said, pick a point and stop. Cutting mats isn't a combat drill, it's about getting ONE good cut at a time. Once the mat piece is clear, feel free to recover.
That said, the type XVa is probably the worst sword to use for cutting mats as they tend to be more thrust oriented swords then cutting. You have to be REALLY careful with these swords when cutting mats. A slight flick of the wrist and the blade bends. A slight twitch...the same thing happens. Not only that, but with so little blade presence, you kinda have to hack a bit...which exasperates the issue. So I can see where somebody would say it's "not a big deal"...but it is. It means you did something wrong. It might have been small enough where the other sword types were fine...but it is an imperfection in your cutting technique and you should fix it. Once you get REALLY good, you should not bend these sword unless they are truely defective.
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Post by YlliwCir on Apr 13, 2008 19:53:00 GMT
+1 for the vid, Tsafa. I haven't cut mats, I'm loathe to spend sword money on targets, it looks challenging tho so I probably ought to try it. Thanks for letting us know any sword will bend under the right circumstances.
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Post by salvatore on Apr 14, 2008 12:57:31 GMT
+1 for the vid, Tsafa. I haven't cut mats, I'm loathe to spend sword money on targets, it looks challenging tho so I probably ought to try it. Thanks for letting us know any sword will bend under the right circumstances. That is pretty obvious, and can go for any target really. Just have to be careful, I mean, I stopped cutting tanks because I thought they'd hurt my sword. ;D
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slav
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Post by slav on Apr 14, 2008 14:44:48 GMT
oo-WA A-A-A!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2008 18:10:24 GMT
Tsafa: The other thing that you need to do, especially when cutting mats with european or any sword that isn't a blade designed to hack is as you do the push pull cut you need to pull the blade back towards you in a slicing motion as well. Cutting mats is a lot harder than most people seem to think
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2008 18:11:02 GMT
wow.
Just.... wow.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2008 19:12:41 GMT
What is being "wowed"? The cutting or a comment or both?
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Apr 14, 2008 19:27:30 GMT
very good cutting tsafa
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2008 22:35:52 GMT
What did you guys think of my choice of music? I thought it was most appropriate
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2008 22:49:25 GMT
Tsafa, I have barely begun to cut anything, so well done putting your first try on film.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2008 0:20:37 GMT
Thanks to all you guys for your support.
I should also mention that the guy with the Brescia Spadona also has an 18th century katana valued at an estimated 7k to 8k (needs polishing work). He did not use it this past weekend in for cutting but he told me he has bent and straightened that out too during tatami cutting. He feels that the sword bending rather then breaking is proof of how good it is. Given the amount of money this guy has spent on swords I have to tip my hat to him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2008 3:43:46 GMT
Um Bill, a sword should not bend if you are cutting with it properly, especially if it is a higher end blade. If the bresica bent it is because the guy doesn't have good technique, the bresica should if used to cut correctly slice tatami like butter, especially if it is sharpened. A good katana like the gen 2 one or any of the gen 2 swords should not bend when cutting tatami. Either the tatami was incorrectly prepared or the technique they are using is incorrect.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2008 4:00:59 GMT
Well...if you use your sword enough, it will eventually bend from stress. However, your most likely going to flub a cut WAY before you stress a good sword to that point. Well a modern well made sword anyways.
I'm with BW on this one. If your doing it right, you shouldn't be bending swords. I mean it happens...but it also means you generally did something wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2008 6:01:12 GMT
Of course the age of the blade and the stresses you have placed on it are a factor, no question, good point napalm.
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Post by salvatore on Apr 15, 2008 9:24:10 GMT
Ouch, he bent a blade that old? Man, more practice, less cutting. I mean, stick with milk jugs and water bottles! Bending a katana that old is a crime somewhere! Makes me want to cry... By the way, if the polish wasn't great, that could have led to it being bent, too. Less drag when cutting with a fully polished blade, it could have been a factor.
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