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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 19:16:42 GMT
I agree with Mike.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 19:31:45 GMT
yup, well Mike is right I'm sure. that's the thing with swords of this level: they ARE good. the reason you are having a hard time deciding (other than your fickle nature) is that you don't know what your sword preferences are yet. you may get the Crecy and while it is an awesome sword it may dissapoint you because you really wanted the Senechal or Senlac, or (name a sword any sword). this is why Shooter Mike and ChrisA and others have suggested you get the multiple V.A. swords. the V.A. swords are really good swords too and because of their price you can get more than one and experiment a little. I mean with your budget you could probably get a Bristol, a Practical long, and a practical arming and have three very good swords of three very different types: a XIIa long sword (I think that's the right type), a XII Arming Sword and a short thruswt and cut sword. all with scabbards and one with a belt and suspension. or you could get a Kreigschwert, a practical long and a practical arming and have three great swords, two different long sword types to check out (though I'm not too sure how different the Krieg and Practical long are) and an arming sword, and all of them very good swords. or you could go with your previous plan of getting the templar and the crusader and having two really cool swords a long and a arming and both having really nice scabbards and belts and suspensions. yes you'll have to wait a little bit but you are going to have to wait for a Senschal or a Crecy or pretty much any Atrim or Albion and the Atrims and Albions might even be a longer wait.
you have to admit: it makes sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 20:01:40 GMT
I might, I just might. I am afraid of the legendary 20% though.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 2, 2009 22:33:37 GMT
I mean with your budget you could probably get a Bristol, a Practical long, and a practical arming and have three very good swords of three very different types: a XIIa long sword (I think that's the right type), a XII Arming Sword and a short thruswt and cut sword. all with scabbards and one with a belt and suspension. Since I have all three of those swords... I'd agree with that. Being that he has NO idea what he actually likes, in hand, in a sword... those three are VERY different swords... and they are all good enough that, even after you move on to better higher end swords, they are still good swords and you dont feel a need to remove/replace them in a colelction. Mine will stay in my collection for good and will not be sold/traded... no mater how many customs of high end swords I pick up in the future... and given how many swords I sell/trade after having bought them, that SAYS something. you have to admit: it makes sense. It makes a HELL of a lot of sense... three very different swords to give one an over all feeling of differnet sword types, lengths, weights, and handing characteristics. Those three swords make a GREAT starting platformfor for a swordsmen/collecter to base off of.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 22:40:37 GMT
I know, but I would rather have a fancy two hander than a one hander, which is why I will probably not get the Bristol. I would rather get a signature two hander and the crusader, and then maybe if I have the money I will get the Bristol, but I really doubt that I will. I wish that they made an arming version of the Bristol.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 22:50:35 GMT
an arming version of the bristol? you mean that hardware and look on a bigger, more manly one handed cut oriented sword?
Does any one know when the custom sword shop will open? keep your eyes on that Jonathan, if you have to wait for the swords you want anyway maybe the custom shop will open by then
I'll most likely be buying from the custom shop once it is open and my current sword money obligation is met.
Sonny sure hit a home run with that idea
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 22:59:30 GMT
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. I need to wait until the custom sword shop comes out first. I'm just thinking that it might be more expensive to get a sword from the custom shop than it would be to buy a signature pack, but we will have to see.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 23:38:22 GMT
yeah, I have no idea what the custom shop is going to cost but I'm hoping it is the same as a signature sword but it could be more, and might be less depending on choices. no one knows right now. hopefully Sonny will get it on line soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 23:42:18 GMT
Ok. I've been resisting but I guess I would feel bad if I did not say what I think. Remember this is my opinion. It is what I truly think is the smartest way for you to go. But it is only my opinion. My best advice for you at this point in your sword collecting career is to not jump in with both feet until you have a better idea of what you are doing. At this time you have not yet swung a sword. At this time it is not really practical to know what you want in a sword. You can ask advice (and you have gotten some excellent advice here), you can read up (which you obviously have done), you can research (ditto). But in reality you have not yet taken a sword to hand. All the stats, all the figures, all the pictures and all the opinions don't mean much. What truly matters is how a sword feels in hand. To hold it, swing it, cut with it is what will tell you what you need to know. Of course, most of us don't get to do this with a sword before buying in this day of internet sales. But having a general knowledge of what you like in a sword will guide you in your future purchases. This knowledge comes from a basic familiarity of how swords feel in hand. Tom, Mike, and Sean all have plenty of background with swords. Now, I might be wrong, but I would say that each of these individuals have an idea of what they are looking for in a sword before they consider buying. Sure, they have wishlists a mile long, and don't truly know which sword is best suited for them until it is in hand, but they can make highly educated decisions. You (and me) do not have this background. How do we get it? By starting small. By experiencing as many blades as we can within our very limited budgets. I, personally, think you would be much better served by buying several less expensive swords than one or two very expensive swords. You apparently will have a decent amount of money when you finish working and that is great. There is no need for you to spend it all in one shot. It is inexpensive to get very good swords that will help you learn. As recommended by almost everyone the VA line has made this an obvious choice. The swords they offer are excellent and you sacrifice nothing by starting with them. Forget the magical 20%. I am bluntly going to say that where you are now, you will not know or appreciate that 20%. In 3 months time? Maybe. But right now? Almost certainly not. Why spend $1 more on something you will not notice, let alone $1000? To brag about having the best? Not worth it. And there is still time for you to get the higher end swords after you can appreciate them. I recommend this: Once you get the money, get the VA practical Arming and Longsword. Total cost $455.98. Put the rest of your money away. Take these 2 swords and have a blast. Cut away. Practice forms. Just hold them. And most of all, LEARN from them. Learn what you like and don't like about them. Learn how weight, POB and other factors add to, but don't fully define a sword. I can assure you that these are good swords for this. They are well made, maneuverable, sharp, tough and just plain nice swords that you will not be disappointed in. As pointed out by Sean, they will most likely stay in your collection even after you have "moved up". If you want to wear your swords (and who doesn't???) you can buy a sword belt for under $100. Ask here and I am sure you will get plenty of recommendations . Both of these swords come with scabbards so there is no worrying about that. Once you have learned a bit about handling swords you will be better able to decide what you like more. One hander or hand and a half? Cutting? Thrusting? Both? Maybe you might not like swords at all (yeah, right ). At this point you can make a more informed purchase and you will have the money you saved ready to make your next purchase. Prestige. ATrim. Maybe an Albion. You seem like a smart guy, if over-eager. Spending everything on one or even two great swords that do not suit you would bother me. And right now you have very little idea of what would suit you. I think in the long run, you will be much happier if you took things a little slower and cautiously. Oh, and I have one of the latest batch of Arming Swords. It really is a nice sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 0:21:52 GMT
That is actually a smart idea, Chris. The problem is that if I do buy them, I might not have enough to get a higher end sword like an Albion or Prestige line sword. I may or may not have enough to get a regular Atrim. The other thing is that I don't really see how one longsword and one arming sword are going to help me find out what suits me. I think that I would have to handle several different types of one and two handed swords to get that kind of an idea. It seems like one one handed sword and one two handed sword will only tell me if I like one handed swords or two handed swords best. That is just my opinion on the matter.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 3, 2009 0:25:17 GMT
so Chris about that new batch arming sword, I'm still looking for someone, anyone to WEIGH the sucker and report it in pounds and ounces. I may have missed it while underway to sea but I still haven't seen a weight on the new ones, just "lighter than the old"
your advice is good, I wish I could make a requirement for people new to swords to get blunts first but that just isn't going to happen, I know it, but I'm always afraid someone is going to do another Half-calf job that could have been avoided or worse.
I think Jonathan is going to get a signature long (not sure which) and a signature arming (crusader) and that should give him good exposure. I have also suggested a shield. if he goes that way he's going to have a great starting set.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 0:54:35 GMT
Jon,
Yes, two swords is not enough to learn everything. But it's a start! That's kinda the point. But you also have a point. But it only makes me answer by saying "Then only pick either the arming or the long!" Although I think it is important to have an arming and a longsword. Vast difference between those.
But it's hard for me to put into words but just by learning how to hold and use a sword will teach you oodles that you will never get from reading. You will note things like weight and balance. Not necessarily in comparison to other swords, just in and of itself. When you cut a bottle you will have a better (not complete) idea of just how edge geometry works. When you swing you will notice what it means to recover. When thrusting you will have a better picture of blade balance. All these things you can only really appreciate by doing. And learning on a $1000 Albion that you don't like the type is a harsh lesson.
You will not learn all from these two swords but you have to start somewhere and I think it better to start "small".
I see that you might go with 2 signature swords and that is a good compromise. They cost more, but still way less than an Albion and I know they are excellent blades.
Tom,
Darnit! I need a scale to measure small weights. My bathroom scale doesn't cut it. And I hate that thing anyway. It lies to me. I know I don't weigh that much! Anybody know a cheap but accurate scale I can get?
I can say it is very light. Not much over 2 pounds. I recently picked up a Windlass Type XIV (they finally fixed the name) and I can tell you the VA is way lighter. KOA lists the weight of the XIV as 2lb 10oz.
The POB is 5". And it makes a sweet sustained "ting" when cutting. I'll get the exact weight when I get a scale.
Edited to add: KOA lists the weight of the Arming word at 2lbs 5.4oz. Also, they say POB is 41/2 inches and rechecking mine carefully shows that to be accurate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 1:33:39 GMT
I have another idea Chris, and you might like it somewhat better than my last one. I could get a signature longsword (I have always liked two handers best) and the practical arming sword. Both have scabbards, and the signature has a sword belt that I could use for both of them. Then, after handling them some, I could get a real AT longsword, maybe more of a thrust oriented fencing longsword. That way, I will have a lot of variety. I would have a good single handed sword, a good cut oriented longsword and a great thrust oriented longsword. Of course, this is all assuming that I will be able to afford everything. I am not sure that I will be able to, but I might get lucky. What do you think about this plan?
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 3, 2009 1:37:54 GMT
ChrisA +1 for some very good advice...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 1:49:02 GMT
I think I can say that is a reasonable plan as that is exactly what I did I wanted one of each "type" so I ordered the Arming Sword and the Kriegschwert (the same reasoning as you: I liked longswords a tad more). And, as you know, I just got my ATrim XVIa, a more thrust oriented sword. I think that is a good plan for anyone starting out. You got a good head on your shoulders. You think things through before acting (and then think again! and that is good. Just remember to take good old fashion common sense into account and you'll be golden. Thanks to VA there is not much use in the old advice "Save another couple of hundred and get an Atrim". Their new swords are perfect for the beginner. Oh, one more thing: Don't be so sure you'll want a 2 hander as your next. Arming Swords are a lot cooler than I thought. You might think so too. Edited: Thanks Sean
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 2:12:06 GMT
I will try to put this plan into action. I can't do anything until I have my maximum amount of money. If I have enough I will go ahead and get the Signature Kriegschwert/Malatesta/Templar and the practical arming sword. Then, after I use them enough to where I am comfortable and I think I know what I want, I will get a real Atrim. It will probably be a longsword, since I think it would be fun to learn all the fancy-pants fencing techniques used during the later medieval periods, although like you said, I might decide I like one handed sword more (which I doubt). If I am a couple hundred dollars short of having enough for the Atrim I will just wait and get the Atrim after Christmas (I will get some money from relatives since it is a holiday) and waiting to acquire the money will give me time to master my other two swords. Anyways, this is my current plan. It could change, but I actually think that this will probably be more or less my final decision. Of course, there's always my fickle mind to consider.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 3, 2009 2:40:23 GMT
now THAT is a good plan! I likes it! I think you will be very happy this way. then some day you'll decide you like katana and the the WOES will truly begin. katanas are evil they will suck you in make you an addict. it's the hamon, it's ALL about the hamon! hamon are cool.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 2:42:47 GMT
To tell you the truth, I had already decided that if I ever did want a Katana (because everybody has to have at least one sometime in there life) that I would get the Kaze katana. The funny part is that it took me one day to make up my mind about that, and I don't even care about katana, but it has been several weeks since I decided to get a sword and I can't even make up my mind about it, ha ha. Oh, the irony...
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 3, 2009 3:11:41 GMT
I have a Kaze, it's a pretty good sword but by no means the best. watch the review boards in about a week I intend to light the place up with three different review. I finally got my mats in and it's time to REVIEW. two Katanas and one wakizashi one of them is from a company that up til now has not had a single review and it looks to be a good review. we'll see. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 3:15:27 GMT
I don't know anything at all about Asian swords, except that people like katana with hamon. That doesn't really matter to me though. I would much rather have a good longsword than a katana in an unarmored duel.
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