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Post by YlliwCir on Mar 4, 2009 19:33:07 GMT
Okay, I've chewed on this pet peeve enough. If a sword is advertised as "sharp" then damnit it oughta arrive sharp enough to cut a plastic bottle in half!  I've gotten sub $100 kats come scary sharp and sub $300 euros come very sharp indeed and I'm not talking about using a sharpening service or a secondary bevel. They have come with a proper edge standard without having to order them extrasharp.  There are swords I probably would have bought if not for this issue. Sure, I can sharpen a sword but if the vendor says they're sharp I shouldn't have to.  Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. ;D |
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Post by alvin on Mar 4, 2009 19:42:26 GMT
AMEN...Brother Rick !!!! I agree COMPLETELY !! Thanks for saying what I've been too afraid to voice. + 1 2 U. 
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 4, 2009 19:58:06 GMT
Oh man, Ric, I am SOOOO with you on this one. nothing irritates me more than secondary bevel.
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Insane
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I'm not mental... Just Insane
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Post by Insane on Mar 4, 2009 20:12:12 GMT
I couldn't agree with you more.
A couple of weeks ago i got the shirasaya en shinobi from musashi.
Hand honed extremely or razor sharp was what the fabricator said.
Even the reviews bla bla bla.
Ok it has an edge and yes it cuts a bottle but razor sharp???
Sure it's a $60 sword but don't BS
I'm expecting another Musashi and the dark sentinal from pc so let's see what they bring.
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 4, 2009 20:46:00 GMT
Okay, I've chewed on this pet peeve enough. If a sword is advertised as "sharp" then damnit it oughta arrive sharp enough to cut a plastic bottle in half! I've gotten sub $100 kats come scary sharp and sub $300 euros come very sharp indeed and I'm not talking about using a sharpening service or a secondary bevel. They have come with a proper edge standard without having to order them extrasharp. There are swords I probably would have bought if not for this issue. Sure, I can sharpen a sword but if the vendor says they're sharp I shouldn't have to. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. ;D This is, in my experince, almost exclusivly a euro sword problem, sadly.  Every Katana I have ever bought came plenty sharp without a secondary bevel crap and could cut bottles no problem. MOST Euro swords I have bought come unsharpened, or with an awefull seconadry bevel and pretty damn dull, or with a sharp secandy bevel that feels sharp to the touch but cuts like $emprini because of the bevel. It sucks. In my experince so far, only the Generation Two swords have come from the factory with a proper edge geomatry and bottle cutting sharp in the sub 300 euro sword market. I hear others have had less luck with the sharpness of their Gen 2's, and I even hear some say their Gen 2's had secondary bevels... but the ones I have seen had propper appleseed edges and cut just fine right out of the box. I like Katana... but I'm more of a western sword man personaly. So it saddens me that I can get a DH Katana with a excelent cutting edge for less then $80, and I can't seem to find many proper edged western style blades with a decent edge at all for less then 300. Grrr. |
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Post by YlliwCir on Mar 4, 2009 20:57:19 GMT
I too have had good luck with Gen2 edges. Also the VA "atrim" practicals I have came with a very nice edge. My Kris Cutlerys came as sharp as anything I've seen including my Albion which itself came very sharp. This is why I don't buy the argument that only more pricier swords come with a proper edge.
I have used both MRL and KOA's sharpening service on a few Windlass models and they came very sharp albeit with a secondary bevel, but I was able to cut with no trouble with them and I knew what I was getting so I'm not totally opposed to a secondary bevel IF I know what I'm getting into. Windlass doesn't advertise their swords as sharp.
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Post by wiwingti on Mar 4, 2009 20:59:51 GMT
congrat with that post man.
yeah it is deceiving when you expect it to be sharpened and it doesn't cut anything else than wind lol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2009 21:18:09 GMT
I mean, we all know how the edges are put on our euro's after forging dont we, put in a grinding wheel ........ screeech, flip, screech, turn, screech, flip, screech, done ........ on the pile ..... another .......... Have to admit not much love shown, and really what price does a little TLC need to be at ......... got a euro ...... $250.00US ........ well seriously give it properly tight fittings, proper non secondary bevel and a QC that gives a damn and ...... I ..... WILL ...... GLADLY ....... pay 350.00-400.00 for it .......... I mean I'm likely to own this piece of steel a lifetime or at least get my money worth out of it ....... for that I can put aside a bit more over 2 paychecks .......... Yes RECCESSION TIME!!!! ....... sucks for business, put your prices up to keep afloat but for hells sake dont think I'll buy the same shoddy standard for more moolah ....... We need a little incentive ........ NOT MUCH ....... as Ric said some blades he would of bought if they had just had a little Valentines on their edge's  |
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Post by sparky on Mar 4, 2009 21:31:08 GMT
Yep, a little frustrated here too. My first two euro swords, I pay extra for them to be sharpened ugh! Probably have been better off without a sharpened sword. That way I could have had a better edge to work with kwim. Still love the swords though, and am glad I got them. I also liked dealing with the guy I bought them from, and would buy from him again, just not sharpened ;D |
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Mar 4, 2009 23:29:33 GMT
"Words have meanings." That's one of the hallmarks of my life. If I say---if someone says----"I'll do it," then it should be done. If I say---if someone says----"I'll try" that means I/they will/should at least try.
If a sword is sold as "sharp" it should be sharp. Maybe not paper cutting sharp (I haven't cut any paper), but at least "SOTA (state of the art) 19th century military sword sharp."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 5:34:47 GMT
I think, as probably everyone thinks, that after the years of all these companies doing business, that its about time that the products that are MEANT to be used in a fashion such as cutting have an appropriate edge, and if all the hubbub with VA and Hanwei improving their lines isnt call enough to other companies to lift their game ........ well they got themselves to blame when minimal to no orders come for their stock ........
Hope thats not to harsh
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Mar 5, 2009 13:52:45 GMT
YES!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 14:00:12 GMT
Simple, stop buying the swords that dont come sharp. Make a list of swords that come bottle cutting sharp, that way we will all know what to avoid if we want bottle cutting sharp right out of the box.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 5, 2009 15:11:59 GMT
honestly, how hard can it be to set up a slack belt grinder on your production floor? I mean, am I wrong? wouldn't that take care of it? the belt would give a nice appleseed shape which could be deepened or shallowed (think niku) by adjusting belt tension. I fail to see why this is so difficult or expensive so if I'm missing something important somebody chime in and let me know. I know there's an issue of belts wearing out but really, how much can a belt cost? I'd happily pay $50 extra for any sword to have a proper edge. surely that would more than cover the price of belts.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 18:12:02 GMT
honestly, how hard can it be to set up a slack belt grinder on your production floor? I mean, am I wrong? wouldn't that take care of it? the belt would give a nice appleseed shape which could be deepened or shallowed (think niku) by adjusting belt tension. I fail to see why this is so difficult or expensive so if I'm missing something important somebody chime in and let me know. I know there's an issue of belts wearing out but really, how much can a belt cost? I'd happily pay $50 extra for any sword to have a proper edge. surely that would more than cover the price of belts. Well a good slack belt sander will run you a couple to several hundred dollars. Now, they are pretty useful tool to have around...but they are quite pricey...although I did find some cheaper ones can be converted to slack belt sander. Of course you can make one pretty easily as well. But either to modify or make, it does take a certain level of engineering knoweldge...something some people don't have...and some level of time...something some people don't have as well. And then there is sharpening using one. You need to know how to sharpen before you go at it with one of these or you will botch your sword up something royal...especially since you can anneal parts of your sword if things are done really badly. And you do have to have a steady hand for this. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea to have a slack belt sander and learn to sharpen with it and learn to do a refinish and what not...but it is something that just isn't in the realm of possible for some. I would prefer a sword to have a proper edge...but it isn't a deal breaker for me since I can fix it myself. |
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 6, 2009 0:45:14 GMT
I completely understand what you are saying Cold, but I'm talking about using it at the production forge. such machinery and skill are, I think, very appropriate and important at the production forge. a good investment of time, money and training. and if they become common at the forge the average Joe like us don't have to worry about the cost, time, and skill needed in order to get swords with decent edges. I just don't see how a decent forge can have a real excuse for grinding secondary bevels on their swords.
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Mar 6, 2009 0:57:31 GMT
This reminds me of the handgun industry putting out unrefined pieces for years so they could be sent back out for after market trigger jobs or melts or hand fitting or etc. Just in the last few years the industry has been providing the guns in completed packages which is now becoming expected by most consumers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 1:47:27 GMT
I suppose I'm about to show my ignorance here. No matter. I'm used to it. I was wondering why a sword could not have an edge put on it prior to hardening? Then maybe just be "touched up" afterwards. Is there something in the hardening process that would destroy the edge? Always wondered this. Teach me.
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 6, 2009 3:42:33 GMT
I've always wondered how many production companies or retailers who sell 'sharpening services' just use an accusharp or Smiths or something similar?
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Mar 6, 2009 4:27:27 GMT
Mogur, I think maybe your question deserves it's own thread where it will get more attention!
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