|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Mar 6, 2009 7:33:56 GMT
I suppose I'm about to show my ignorance here. No matter. I'm used to it. I was wondering why a sword could not have an edge put on it prior to hardening? Then maybe just be "touched up" afterwards. Is there something in the hardening process that would destroy the edge? Always wondered this. Teach me. Fine edges are more prone to cracking during the quench. Dan Davis recommended me to keep a minimum 0.7mm edge (windlass thickness not so coincidentally) during quench. For a water quench maybe they use more even as it's very agressive. Also HTing makes the blade surface horrid and they need refinishing after (sanding, filing etc) - serious work, not just a quick touch up. |
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Mar 6, 2009 9:36:41 GMT
I've always wondered how many production companies or retailers who sell 'sharpening services' just use an accusharp or Smiths or something similar? Sean, I don't know about all "sharpening services" but I have used MRL and KOA's sharpening service. They do a pretty good job even with the secondary bevel. They have arrived with a good enough edge to cut very well right out of the box, as can be seen in the reviews of said pieces. I have experimented with an accusharp type device. In my opinion that isn't what they used. |
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Mar 6, 2009 10:06:15 GMT
Sean, I don't know about all "sharpening services" but I have used MRL and KOA's sharpening service. They do a pretty good job even with the secondary bevel. They have arrived with a good enough edge to cut very well right out of the box, as can be seen in the reviews of said pieces. I have experimented with an accusharp type device. In my opinion that isn't what they used. Fair enough... I just know that some people are able to get a perfectly servicable edge using the accusharp... Jason Woodard uses the accusharp on most if not all of his DSA swords, and Paul himself has used the accusharp many times to produce cutting edges. So it would not surprise me if some of the sharpening services did likewise. *I* have never got a good cutting edge on a sword with an accusharp, but people have done so. |
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Mar 6, 2009 10:14:25 GMT
Sean, it appeared to me that the accusharp put on a steeper bevel than the sharpening services I used, I could just be doing it wrong tho.
I should mention, I wouldn't hesitate to use their services again if I bought a blade that needed sharpening such as a Windlass.
I'm not even that set against a secondary bevel. I just think if the vendor says it's sharp, I should be able to take it out of the box and cut with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 6, 2009 12:53:48 GMT
That's fair enough Ric, but I want my blades to have a nice single bevel (of proper shape) and I'd rather do it myself than get my sword with a secondary bevel but most of you probably know this already. I like how windlass edges come because they take a file easily. if they were as hard as the Castile I'd think it was pretty miserable though. . . still it seem easier to me to put the proper edge on in the first place than to correct a secondary bevel.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Mar 6, 2009 15:27:04 GMT
honestly, how hard can it be to set up a slack belt grinder on your production floor? I mean, am I wrong? wouldn't that take care of it? the belt would give a nice appleseed shape which could be deepened or shallowed (think niku) by adjusting belt tension. I fail to see why this is so difficult or expensive so if I'm missing something important somebody chime in and let me know. I know there's an issue of belts wearing out but really, how much can a belt cost? I'd happily pay $50 extra for any sword to have a proper edge. surely that would more than cover the price of belts. Well a good slack belt sander will run you a couple to several hundred dollars. Now, they are pretty useful tool to have around...but they are quite pricey...although I did find some cheaper ones can be converted to slack belt sander. Of course you can make one pretty easily as well. But either to modify or make, it does take a certain level of engineering knoweldge...something some people don't have...and some level of time...something some people don't have as well. And then there is sharpening using one. You need to know how to sharpen before you go at it with one of these or you will botch your sword up something royal...especially since you can anneal parts of your sword if things are done really badly. And you do have to have a steady hand for this. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea to have a slack belt sander and learn to sharpen with it and learn to do a refinish and what not...but it is something that just isn't in the realm of possible for some. I would prefer a sword to have a proper edge...but it isn't a deal breaker for me since I can fix it myself. I think he was referring to the manufacturer having one to sharpen their sword before sending them out. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 4:23:19 GMT
OK, thanx Brenno. I figured it must be something like that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 6:59:36 GMT
I've used an accusharp on all my non sharpened blades and its provided a fine edge ....... not great but hey I've cut myself badly on an accusharp edge so they work  ......... I'm learning to use stones and sandpaper now for a more TLC method of edging ....... |
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 7, 2009 7:42:23 GMT
yeah, we do what works for us I guess. I'm picky about my edges but really it doesn't matter that much if it cuts it's good.
so in the end it seems like the answer to Ric's question in the OP and title is "YES!"
at least I think so.
|
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Mar 7, 2009 8:59:06 GMT
I should be able to take it out of the box and cut with it. I agree 100%. The bigest offender for this so far in my experince has been Paul Chen/Hanwei on any swords they offer that are NOT Katana. Their Katana are wicked stupid sharp... but longswords, arming swords, anything not Katana... well, I have not handled a single one out of the box as of yet that cut well, if at all. VERY annoying. |
|
SlayerofDarkness
Member
Review Points: 65
"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
Posts: 3,067
|
Post by SlayerofDarkness on Mar 7, 2009 16:35:56 GMT
Yeah, my 'Razor Sharp' Hanwei Dark Sentinel came with a BARELY sharp edge, and quickly dulled to a butterknife one.  Hanwei non-kat edges are pathetic, but at least the swords are still good... -Slayer |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 17:57:20 GMT
I think the katana justs lends itself better to taking a razor sharp edge because that is what it is designed to have, all the geometry of a katana is about sharpness. Whereas on european blades they don't have the same sort of geometry and so don't achieve that perfect sharpness without a great deal of work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 18:12:13 GMT
I think the katana justs lends itself better to taking a razor sharp edge because that is what it is designed to have, all the geometry of a katana is about sharpness. Whereas on european blades they don't have the same sort of geometry and so don't achieve that perfect sharpness without a great deal of work. Blood that is a pretty broad thing to say, what euros have you handled that brought you to that conclusion? |
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Mar 7, 2009 19:33:42 GMT
I only have a couple kat types, a Cheness Mokko and a Musashi Wind Dragon, very sharp indeed. However my KC's came just as sharp if not sharper.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 21:40:13 GMT
I think the katana justs lends itself better to taking a razor sharp edge because that is what it is designed to have, all the geometry of a katana is about sharpness. Whereas on european blades they don't have the same sort of geometry and so don't achieve that perfect sharpness without a great deal of work. Blood that is a pretty broad thing to say, what euros have you handled that brought you to that conclusion? Perhaps because most euro swords are primarily thrusting swords? An edge would be quickly dulled against metal armor anyway. Isn't the main focus to find a "chink" in the armor and thrust into it? Just showing my ignorance again I'm afraid. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Mar 7, 2009 21:49:08 GMT
That would depend on the time period, Mogur, I would think. Also there are thrusting and cutting swords and many variations in between.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 7, 2009 23:54:38 GMT
YUP, there's plenty of cut oriented euro swords. and they often have nice apple-seed edge geometry ery similar to Kats that can be sharpened to a razor edge. in fact the VA practical Atrim Longsword I just got from Shooter Mike came to me as sharp or sharper than any katana I've ever known. I will be posting cutting vids of me slicing through tatami like nothing with it in a little bit. it was, by far, the easiest cut on tatami I've ever made.
|
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Mar 8, 2009 8:11:08 GMT
YUP, there's plenty of cut oriented euro swords. and they often have nice apple-seed edge geometry ery similar to Kats that can be sharpened to a razor edge. in fact the VA practical Atrim Longsword I just got from Shooter Mike came to me as sharp or sharper than any katana I've ever known. I will be posting cutting vids of me slicing through tatami like nothing with it in a little bit. it was, by far, the easiest cut on tatami I've ever made. Sweeeeeeet... I look forward to it... Mikes swords are all very nicely sharpened. I'm not sure if he gets em that way, or if he is just VERY adept at putting and keeping a good edge on his blades. |
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Mar 8, 2009 12:23:32 GMT
Mike, does indeed have mad sharpening skills, however all the VA"atrim" longswords I've heard of including mine came very very sharp.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2009 14:34:06 GMT
Well a good slack belt sander will run you a couple to several hundred dollars. Now, they are pretty useful tool to have around...but they are quite pricey...although I did find some cheaper ones can be converted to slack belt sander. Of course you can make one pretty easily as well. But either to modify or make, it does take a certain level of engineering knoweldge...something some people don't have...and some level of time...something some people don't have as well. And then there is sharpening using one. You need to know how to sharpen before you go at it with one of these or you will botch your sword up something royal...especially since you can anneal parts of your sword if things are done really badly. And you do have to have a steady hand for this. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea to have a slack belt sander and learn to sharpen with it and learn to do a refinish and what not...but it is something that just isn't in the realm of possible for some. I would prefer a sword to have a proper edge...but it isn't a deal breaker for me since I can fix it myself. Incorrect. The Harbor Freight 1X30 is an excellent slack belt sander, and only 40$. And you can get the higher grit belts from Lee Valley. www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2485www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,43072&p=48040 |
|
......... I'm learning to use stones and sandpaper now for a more TLC method of edging ....... 
Hanwei non-kat edges are pathetic, but at least the swords are still good...
