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Post by ragebot on Nov 1, 2023 14:00:02 GMT
When I buy my toys (boats, whips, firearms, whatever) I feel comfortable figuring out what I will term the sweet spot for the best price point. It sorta follows what I call the 95% rule that the last 5% of performance is not worth chasing as the price point increases so fast. But with swords I feel lost. I also think it is important to have a clear idea of what you will actually do with your toys, not what you think you will do. I have two uses for swords, the first is for use as props in making movies and in many cases I choose LARP swords for multiple reasons. But I also need some real swords for actual cutting as some things can't be faked with FX. So far I have been using what at SB would be called low end swords but they have served my purpose well. I have posted several vids of me cutting with these swords and the results seem to my eye to be as good as any cutting vids I have seen here and on Youtube.
I have seen lots of posts about brand new swords out of the box not having what I will call "bragging rights level sharpness" and that something like say 1090 will not need to be sharpened as frequently as 1045. But in my case I often spend more time sharpening my swords than cutting with them so I expect the second thing I will do with a new sword (the first thing is wipe off the excess oil) is spend a couple of hours (at least) sharpening the blade.
So my question is what will going over say the $US300 price point buy me.
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Post by madirish on Nov 1, 2023 14:46:42 GMT
Greater historical accuracy, finer finish work, significantly better dynamics....all things that it does not sound are important in your use case if you are satisfied with the sub $300 pieces you have purchased.
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Post by crazyjons on Nov 1, 2023 15:47:10 GMT
Hey one thing I like about the cheap swords is they sharpen very easily even if they are damaged easily.
I have a couple 1045 Ronin clay tempered katanas that continue to cut fantastic despite edge damage and bending, usually just a few swipes with the diamond Stone only takes a minute or two.
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Post by takitam on Nov 1, 2023 17:40:19 GMT
'Sweet spot' for people interested in historical sword replicas is Albion. In some areas of sword design and execution, there is probably nothing better, no matter the price point. This is a niche hobby and there is no competition here really. In production world there is basically only Albion and some impostors.
You may wonder if custom swords in the range of 2k-10k are worth it (that last '5%'). For a few, they are. For most, they are not and there are many individual reasons for that. But if you are interested in quality swords, the sweet spot is obvious.
Everything below is an equivalent of a counterfeit pretending to be something it is not.
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Post by nddave on Nov 2, 2023 5:58:43 GMT
'Sweet spot' for people interested in historical sword replicas is Albion. In some areas of sword design and execution, there is probably nothing better, no matter the price point. This is a niche hobby and there is no competition here really. In production world there is basically only Albion and some impostors. You may wonder if custom swords in the range of 2k-10k are worth it (that last '5%'). For a few, they are. For most, they are not and there are many individual reasons for that. But if you are interested in quality swords, the sweet spot is obvious. Everything below is an equivalent of a counterfeit pretending to be something it is not. I'd say that's quite a harsh statement regarding sub $1000 swords. There are plenty of viable and well made options between $300-$1000 that will perform or handle just as well as an Albion and sometimes better depending on the sword type. Not all swords historically were of Albion accuracy, and the majority had more in common with mid teir and even low teir swords than some would believe. Even Albions themselves can have fit and finish and production line flaws much like any of the lower end manufacturers, so spending the extra cash isn't always a guarantee for a better sword. Albions can bend, break and loosen at the hilt just like any other sword. Sometimes especially when casual use or even simply display is the primary focus of a collector, the highest option isn't always the best. I mean seriously find me more than 10 members here who actually rigorously cut or train with their Albions, most hang them high or place them in a safe with no intention of use due to fear of devaluing their worth. Then there's also the long wait times ordering (over a year usually) and near zero in stock availability which also can deter a new buyer or add anxiety to using them. Personally I find the true sweet spot for accuracy and function to be between $300-$500. That price will get you good historical accuracy while being in a price bracket that if you do break it isn't as hard to recover or purchase another. It's definitely much easier to aquire, potentially break or damage, and repurchase a Hanwei or Windlass than it is an Albion or even Valiant these days. Especially when it's roughly 3-4 to 1 regarding cost ratio.
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Post by blairbob on Nov 2, 2023 7:35:56 GMT
I think it really depends on genre.
I don't know that much nor have that much experience with the Western stuff. The stuff out of Czechia seems pretty good and starts around $300-400 though can get way past Albion costs if you want to get fancy.
But I don't think you can get as much sword for the Western stuff as you can with the Japanese stuff from China. I've handled even less Chineseesy stuff and at that, it was from Hanwei at Renfaires.
I feel like you need to really start at nearly $200 for Western/Chinese swords to get something equivalent to say, a Musashi 1045 for $70-80+tax&shipping. It seems like $200-300 for Hanwei Medieval stuff from KoA. And it's $250 from Ronin. MRL/Windlass is about the same.
and this is likely because katana like stuff has so much higher demand. I've heard demand in China is higher for Jian and Dao but outside, I think it's really small in comparison.
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Post by nddave on Nov 2, 2023 8:51:57 GMT
I think it really depends on genre. I don't know that much nor have that much experience with the Western stuff. The stuff out of Czechia seems pretty good and starts around $300-400 though can get way past Albion costs if you want to get fancy. But I don't think you can get as much sword for the Western stuff as you can with the Japanese stuff from China. I've handled even less Chineseesy stuff and at that, it was from Hanwei at Renfaires. I feel like you need to really start at nearly $200 for Western/Chinese swords to get something equivalent to say, a Musashi 1045 for $70-80+tax&shipping. It seems like $200-300 for Hanwei Medieval stuff from KoA. And it's $250 from Ronin. MRL/Windlass is about the same. and this is likely because katana like stuff has so much higher demand. I've heard demand in China is higher for Jian and Dao but outside, I think it's really small in comparison. This is a good point and I agree that the volume and demand for Japanese swords is much higher than European, Chinese or Middle Eastern swords. I think one of the major differences in quality or generally historical accuracy, is with Japanese swords historical accuracy is less emphasized in the market than with European or Chinese swords. A lot of this has to do with the general timespan the katana or specifically Uchigatana design was used in Japanese history compared to how much change in design the sword went through in those other regions especially when looking at Europe and China. Basically with the Uchigatana you see it specifically in Japanese history from the 14th-20th century as a functional weapon, with very little specific changes to hilt or blade type. Now compare that to the European sword that from the 9th to 18th centuries went through drastic design changes in hilt and blade type and its not as easy to just make a European or specifically Medieval Sword like it is a Japanese Sword. It's also a point that besides the blade the furniture of a katana is much more simplistic and more easily streamlined to production than European Medieval Swords. Yes there was plenty of variations in Koshirae through the centuries in Japan. But for the most part even with variations to Fuchi, Kashira, Tsuba and Tsukamaki, the general finish and design wasn't as intricate or involved as the variations in Pommel and Guard seen on European Medieval Swords. Especially when the primary focus of katana manufacturing is the most basic Uchigatana koshirae of simple banded fuchi, flat kashira, round maru-gata tsuba and hineri-maki wrap. Compare that to the variations and specific designs of even just pommels and you see why the expectation of a Medieval sword is much higher on the market and as well as more scrutinized. I mean for the Medieval Sword to be evened out to a Japanese Katana ypuf basically need to take one specific blade type, say a XVIIIa as well as a general unform and basic hilt type of Hilt Family A or C (pending arming or longsword proportion of the sword) with a straight guard and wheel pommel and you basically would have a "uniform" katana like Medieval Sword to range out from $80-$1000. Basically every "Medieval Sword" would be the Hanwei Tinker Bastard of varying detail and fit and finish, lol.
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Post by fivesidedpixels on Nov 2, 2023 11:21:57 GMT
I think one of the major differences in quality or generally historical accuracy, is with Japanese swords historical accuracy is less emphasized in the market than with European or Chinese swords. A lot of this has to do with the general timespan the katana or specifically Uchigatana design was used in Japanese history compared to how much change in design the sword went through in those other regions especially when looking at Europe and China. Basically with the Uchigatana you see it specifically in Japanese history from the 14th-20th century as a functional weapon, with very little specific changes to hilt or blade type. Now compare that to the European sword that from the 9th to 18th centuries went through drastic design changes in hilt and blade type and its not as easy to just make a European or specifically Medieval Sword like it is a Japanese Sword. Also interesting to note that the market for "historically accurate" katanas is mostly fulfilled by actual antiques, rather than high quality reproductions. Anyone who wants an Edo period katana can straight up just buy one. Don't think there's truly an Albion equivalent for production Japanese weapons. And if there was... what could they really do to distinguish themselves, I wonder?
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Post by curiomansion on Nov 2, 2023 11:38:26 GMT
For functionality, I personally believe the major point of diminishing returns is around $900 for European swords, but only as of the last few years. I would have said $1200 five years back. I am personally willing to spend more to get that last 5%, but these days I find myself being satisfied with the $400-$700 offering from LK Chen and Windlass. I use my swords relatively hard and on a variety of targets; I also drill with my sharps quite a bit. That's my use case.
I will say that aesthetically (if you buy from the right smiths) there's really no end in sight for what more money can buy you. I don't nitpick about waviness in the blade, blade seating in the crossguard, polish quality as long as it doesn't affect the way the sword handles and functions. That said, I expect more expensive blades to not have those issues, but I have found that they really don't effect function.
To your specific question...(general impressions- not scientific at all)
Life After $300 (European style swords) C $300-$800: Hilt Construction, Handling/Dynamics, Historical Accuracy in Design, Correct Primary Edge Bevels B $800-$1200: Better Steels, Brands with Proven Track Records, Notably Better Aesthetics/Execution, Variety of Form Factors, Made in USA A $1200+ : More obscure form factors and types, More difficult blade geometries, Finely Tuned Handling/Dynamics, Correct Secondary Edge Bevels and Edge Polish, customization, art-level fit and finish, fanciness, street-cred.
Durability peaks at tier B. You can generally find what you're looking for at B as well, unless you're after something super-specific. In tier C, you typically have to hunt the gems in that price bracket, and thus can't be as picky about the type of sword you're after.
All this said...for film and prop work, if LARP swords usually are good enough aesthetically, I'd stick with sub $300 when you can. Most $300 swords I've seen look plenty good for a fast moving cutting shot. As long as you pick a durable one and don't shoot any extreme close ups, most of the details will get lost. Cheaper swords are also more likely to use generic designs, which would make it easier to get matched foam and steel swords.
For a more premium option, I'd look into companies that make trainers, as they'd also be able to make matched sharp-blunt pairs. Regenyei and Kvetun come to mind.
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Post by fivesidedpixels on Nov 2, 2023 12:31:17 GMT
'Sweet spot' for people interested in historical sword replicas is Albion. In some areas of sword design and execution, there is probably nothing better, no matter the price point. This is a niche hobby and there is no competition here really. In production world there is basically only Albion and some impostors. You may wonder if custom swords in the range of 2k-10k are worth it (that last '5%'). For a few, they are. For most, they are not and there are many individual reasons for that. But if you are interested in quality swords, the sweet spot is obvious. Everything below is an equivalent of a counterfeit pretending to be something it is not. I think it's a bit much to place Albion as the be-all and end-all of sword replicas. For functionality, comparatively sharp/well-balanced pieces can be had for cheaper. For a lot of people, a better sharpening job or improving their technique with a mid-priced sword would do them better than a more expensive blade. For looks and finish, yeah, Albion is probably the most consistent. I'd say this is their selling point. The only draw here is you don't really see anything super intricate or exotic from them. Ring me up if they happen to make a swept-hilt rapier, or a Swiss saber. For historical accuracy, AFAIK they perfectly feel and weigh just like the antiques they're inspired by. Albions are even a little too perfect, as they lack some of the natural imperfections old swords tended to have. It's a tiny subset of people who care about this kind of thing, though. But price and wait time? This is where it really gets competitive. For one, Albions don't come with a scabbard; expect to spend half the price of the sword (or more) on one, along with an additional wait. Mass-production swords and even some custom makers have this covered from the get-go. If you consider a sword incomplete without its jacket, this is really worth noting. You also need to wait a year or longer to receive your sword, due to Albion's huge backlog. In the same time, mid-ranged swords can be bought for cheaper and received within days. Custom smiths vary a lot here, but many can get you a sword in a similar time frame/price as Albion. Finally, let's not forget that Albion is increasing their prices very soon. Whether it's a big or small change, it'll still serve to make other options more attractive. In the end, if your use case is just cutting things in the backyard? You can get just as much enjoyment well below $1k. If you want a believably historical sword? Also below $1k. As others have said, going beyond this price point improves increasingly less noticeable form factors. A top notch heat treat? A nice hollow grind? The "highest" quality steel? If the sword is going to spend two weeks out of the year actually being used to cut things (with the rest of the time just hanging on the wall), those final premiums really don't serve much purpose. It's more the diehard collectors and practitioners who can justify Albion as an option. I'm not saying they're not top-of-the-line though. Just that there's a tendency for hobbyists to recommend far more expensive things than the average person would ever need.
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Post by takitam on Nov 2, 2023 13:09:17 GMT
Good quality posts guys, this should help any new readers form their opinions. I'm glad that my post sparked some comments. It does sound a lot more arbitrary than my usual style, yet this is my conclusion after 20 years 'in the business' of being a historical enthusiast I elaborated on this point in many of my previous posts. I don't want to bore anyone repeating the same thing over and over again. nddave - I think your approach is perfectly valid but if I understand you well, you consider modern Deepeka/Hanwei et al. products to be an equivalent/faithful replicas of 'munitions grade' European medieval swords? At the risk of repeating same old thing again - This is where I couldn't disagree more. I think that imperfections and mistakes of old masters who made swords for soldiers and worked at speed differ substantially from mistakes made by modern forges hiring cheap labour to make a quick buck on something that imitates a film sword, made for a movie or series fan. These forges don't understand the essence of the sword. They only replicate its looks. For anyone who is interested in authentic historical weapons, the differences are huge and obvious. The proportions, volumes, weight distribution, edge quality etc. Not to mention the most important one, which is handling. When you handle a quality tool, you understand what it is. I remember reading a funny comparison on myarmoury some time ago, that somehow illustrates the problem by using cars as an analogy. So instead of writing in an obscure language of historical swords and modern replicas, let's use the car example, which is easier to feel and understand for most of us. Imagine someone 300 years from now who is interested in American sport cars from XX century and can't afford or doesn't want to pay the price of a real one. But he is not a true geek, he just likes the looks of those cars and wants a replica made. So a future car company sells him a replica of a Dodge Challenger. The thing is, the future designer working at that company takes a few liberties, so that car has the front of the 1970 Challenger, while the rest of the body is from the 2015 Challenger (both ancient cars so what's the difference?). On top of that, the car is built on the frame of a Corvette (blueprints are no longer licenced for this one) and powered by a VW Golf Gti engine. They use some future technology to 3D print it. The final product looks good and drives ok (its limitations would only show when driving faster than 100kph but this is forbidden in the future). The customer is happy. But is it a quality replica? The future car geek will cringe when looking at it and driving it. It will not look right and it will not feel right. So while modern sword replicas from the lower range are lower quality than the car example from above, the car example illustrates quite well what a historical sword enthusiast sees when they look at lower end sword reproductions. Or maybe it doesn't But here it is. Btw. If we talk about 'value for money', I do not have an opinion here. It is not a criterion I use. I wanted to talk about quality. Another edit: I do not think that historical swords were durable in the modern meaning and this is another criterion that I do not use. I think they were quite fragile and they had to be to perform their function well (with the exception of late 'can openers'). My imagination and experience of reading some historical texts tells me that it was quite common for swords to be carried on a daily basis, at least in times of war, but used only once, in a serious conflict or a life or death situation. Afterwards, if they did not break, they needed to be either reground if the sword was as lucky as its owner, or were discarded and replaced.
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 2, 2023 14:05:23 GMT
How much do we really know about the average sword quality in medieval times? Museum examples are more likely top of the line models, and battle/grave finds won't have aged well. There were cheap swords back then as well, so even a Deepeeka without temper and a PoB of 12" could be historically accurate in a way that stuff like it surely existed. And don't you think there were smiths back then churning out things we now would call "fantasy" swords? If you can think of it, someone else has already.
As value goes, below 300$ you have to be very selective, some are nothing more than sword shaped crowbars, but a few are pretty good. I don't neccessarily think the Albion's pricepoint is only quality, you also pay more labour in US/EU than china for example. I don't think the labour pool in the west is better, low cost labour just lends itself to mass produce crap and see what sticks. LK Chen shows that they can produce very good quality for half the price. For how long this stays that way, who knows. It's probably more about who makes the sword than the price. I'd much rather have a 500$ LK Chen than a 800$ Windlass to be honest..
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Post by curiomansion on Nov 2, 2023 14:24:20 GMT
takitamThe big issue with the car analogy is that cars came into existence en masse in the 20th century, well after the west became far more concerned with precise classifications than really anyone had been in the past. Challenger, Corvette, Golf are all different models made by different brands with specific generations, versions, specs, and options. Swords weren't really made like that until the early modern period, and even then, the models weren't as specific as say a 2018 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack. Often blades were forged by one maker, put together by a cutler, who bought hilt components from another maker. Many swords were thrown together with readily available parts and not cohesively designed as a singular work of art. Furthermore, swords that were passed down were often rehilted to match the latest trends. This leads us to have massive variation in medieval swords if you scour the dark recesses of museum collections. Few other points...we don't have an exhaustive collection of what existed in the past (a lot has been lost)- there are many weapons in period artwork that we don't know if it's real or not. Sampling bias is probably significant here. I think Oakeshots typology gives many people the impression that (1) medieval sword development was more streamlined that it is and the (2) we have a general understanding of that streamlined process. Reading "Records" I don't think Oakeshot's work even suggests these two conclusions. All this said, I think you can justify almost anything prior early modern period. Mish mashing medieval and even renaissance weapons isn't errant the way a certain brand markets an 1840 Heavy Cav as an 1860.
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Post by takitam on Nov 2, 2023 14:32:24 GMT
How much do we really know about the average sword quality in medieval times? Museum examples are more likely top of the line models, and battle/grave finds won't have aged well. That's the thing - we don't know anything about the average quality. That's why we can only really talk about what we have left in regard to historical originals. There are three main groups - top quality museum level stuff preserved by aristocrats and rich merchants and churches throughout the ages; presumably ritual offerings found in lakes and rivers, battlefield and random finds dug from the ground. Some are in surprisingly good shape. There are probably some quality XIX century fakes that pass as originals as well. My point about the differences between 'old cheap' and 'modern cheap' is that we have a completely different situation here. In the past a sword was a weapon, a tool of conflict and war. It had to work well and people used swords for their intended purpose. People are generally practical and make tools that work when they actually use them. Nowadays, it is excessive consumerism and fantasy, nerds buying sword replicas to feel like a beloved hero from a movie or history. These two situations are completely different and my 'educated guess' is that putting an equation between the is very misleading. My personal limitation here is - I only have experience with handling original XIX century sabres in comparison with their replicas. They are usually completely different, they only look the same to an untrained eye. But even an untrained person will instantly feel the difference in handling. When I talk about medieval swords I extrapolate my experience of sabers. I have never handled an authentic medieval sword. curiomansion - thanks for mentioning the guild system. I draw a slightly different conclusion from it - I think this is what lets us classify things the modern way. If not for the guild system we would not be able to tell that a style is from late XV century Milan for example. Fashions and styles and manufacturing technologies existed and were specific to a time and place. That's the only reason we can classify things nowadays. Without this guild/town foundation (Ingelrii, Passau, Solingen, Toledo etc) we would have no way at all to classify things the way we do. These were the brands of the time. In the end, what I personally value in modern sword replicas is the quality of design, based on hands-on examination and understanding of remaining historical originals. This is the reason I value Albion, because thanks to Peter Johnsson's research they have completely changed the market, for the better.
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 2, 2023 14:44:32 GMT
Nowadays, it is excessive consumerism and fantasy, nerds buying sword replicas to feel like a beloved hero from a movie or history. These two situations are completely different and my 'educated guess' is that putting an equation between the is very misleading. My personal limitation here is - I only have experience with handling original XIX century sabres in comparison with their replicas. They are usually completely different, they only look the same to an untrained eye. But even an untrained person will instantly feel the difference in handling. When I talk about medieval swords I extrapolate my experience of sabers. I have never handled an authentic medieval sword. That's true, but the last 20 years much has happened to be honest. Even the low end now is better than medium price segment around the 2000s. All I could get back then was stainless Katanas....
I don't think you can really say what a medieval sword felt like unless it is 99% intact. A rusted out blade without hilt will have lost much of it's ofiginal mass and structure, that't what I meant about the ground finds. Also the variation between swords was massive, so even if you have 2 blades from the same smith, they won't be the same. And if the repro is so much off from the original, it's not really a repro, it's a bad copy in my eyes.
The classification gets very muddy quickly, because they were made by modern people, not by the medieval sword users. To them it was a sword, not a type XVIIIc
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Post by nddave on Nov 2, 2023 15:04:59 GMT
takitam, I wouldn't say "munitions grade", also there is a broad difference in itself between a Deepeeka and Hanwei in regards to fit, finish and handling. Deepeeka are definitely below the standard expectations of a functional and historically accurate medieval sword. The majority of Hanwei Medieval Swords have solid fit, finish handling, weight, balancing and heat treatment to stand up to any higher priced sword all the while being a solid representation or replica of a historical original. But then again you get what you pay for and the more you pay the better you get, well most of the time. But again the focus of the thread wasn't necessarily Albion vs Hanwei or Windlass or even Albion vs Valiant Armory. It was asking the sweet spot for swords regarding price point. When I think of the term "sweet spot" I look at the best you can get at an average acceptable price point. Even adding in inflation over the last 20 years the sword market's "sweet spot" has been around $300. It's why the basis of SBG has been "sub $300" or in more present years sub $400. Because there is a lot of value, quality and variety in the $300-$800 range. More so than in the $1000+ range. Sure sub $300 has been pushing it lately but then again we've had pretty good experiences with brands like Balaur Arms and consistent manufacturers like Windlass and Hanwei even if prices have inflated above $300 for most models. You're car analogy doesn't really work just like it didn't back then. Because again we can look at a sports car that costs $100,000 and does 0-60 in 4 seconds, but then again we can look at my RAM pickup that does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds that not only costs half the price but can also seat 5, tow, go off road and load stuff. Even though the sports car is more expensive "fancy" and fine tuned to speed, overall the pickup is much more versatile and is a prime sweet spot for all in one. Edit: Another thing that kinda came to mind just now is how Albion and their machined more streamlined manufacturing process is more in line with Katana production,at least with their Next Gen and Squire Line. Especially when you look at how Albion takes specific blade types and reuses them with various hilt parts to make different swords rather than focus on making a more focused replica of a historical orginal. Another thing I wanted to add is you're comments on durability in the past compared to now. One way I look at it is if swords were that weak and or brittle historically, they wouldn't have been used for centuries like they were especially in the Carolingian or Viking era or the High Middle Ages. If the sword was so weak and disposable we wouldn't have two millenia of European Sword use but seen other weapons take prominence which we don't see until the 19th century when firearms took major prominence.
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Post by ragebot on Nov 2, 2023 17:37:27 GMT
This has been a very informative thread for me in terms of figuring out what my direction should be. One of the most important takes for me is that Japanese swords like a katana will likely be a better sword (for my purposes of mostly backyard cutting which sometimes is edited into vids) than European swords when both are at the same price point. As an extra added attraction I seem to be able to do flourishing easier with my polypropylene katanas than with European swords with a sometimes big fancy hilt and pommel.
There is no question in my mind that in terms of things like durability progress in metallurgy even the last 50 years means modern swords are far superior to historical ones. Today it is trivial to get cheap good quality 1045 (or 1090 or choose your poison) where as even 100 years ago it was far harder (a pun is the lowest form of humor). Same goes for what I will term mass produced sharpening (even my cheap Cold Steel Tactical Wakizashi Machete can pass the cut a single sheet of paper test with impunity).
This vid illustrates my limited skills in backyard cutting with a Cold Steel Broadsword and forces me to ask the question what would spending $US300-800 for a different sword buy me.
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 2, 2023 17:59:49 GMT
That's the CS Competition Cutting sword? You get different/better steel if get something else but CS. And longer blades. EDIT: To explain, not only added material cost but the longer the blade, the harder it is to get things right, like weight, PoB and stiffness. If cutting is your thing, you should try a chinese oxtail Dao. Those cut like nothing else.
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Post by curiomansion on Nov 2, 2023 18:22:52 GMT
takitam I think the guild system is a far cry from being equivalent to brands and certainly a shaky basis for modern classification. "Nowadays, it is excessive consumerism and fantasy, nerds buying sword replicas to feel like a beloved hero from a movie or history." Perhaps not the consumerism part, but looking at contemporary artwork, I'd say the medieval sword buyer was pretty into fantasy and feeling like a hero. Haha nddave I think the new RA Windlass line and LK Chen Euros are better in proportion to the price of the the old Hanwei and regular Windlasses. For me (with Euro style swords) I feel every dollar spent above $300 with the aforementioned two brands. I suspect this will change soon, as the euro sword market develops like the katana market. Fingers crossed.
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Post by takitam on Nov 2, 2023 18:42:59 GMT
I chose a wrong thread to elaborate on the points I made, (again ) and my posts were largely off-topic and not relevant to the discussion at hand. I do believe they provide some value, but they would mean more and be better suited to a different thread. Apologies
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