|
Post by tancred on Jul 16, 2020 16:38:56 GMT
From my point of view, a company that has a special edition to celebrate an important event will not use rejects. Traditionally, the items are made in one batch, and hand selected and reviewed by management to ensure they meet the very highest standards. The company never makes money from these things, but instead they use them for advertising. I've never dealt with JKOO, so I won't know what to compare the sword with. Hopefully it's something really special, if not, it will make a very nice beater none the less. Either way, I'm one of the 15. Hi Rufus. The only thing that makes me pause when you say that they make these in one batch is that these 15th Anniversary katana have the option of bo-hi or no-hi. What if all fifteen buyers all chose the no-hi option, and JKoo had already made half and half? Or any other combination of number of one blade type vs the other? I would almost think the company would have to wait to see what their 15 customers wanted before they made at least some of the blades. In any case, this is a good price, and I hope you and the other buyers get some excellent swords. I, too, am interested in comparing what everyone gets.
|
|
|
Post by tancred on Jul 16, 2020 16:41:30 GMT
I have one of their 99 dollar offers; was a christmas discount last year. Its surprisingly well built, the grip wrap is top, habaki fit is OK. Same quality is very fine grain, shows alittle wood, mekugi holes not clean. Fittings and tsuba feel thin and cheap, but i have exactly the same on mycheaper ($199) Huawei Kogarasu spring steel. Blade is nice folded steel, suguha hamon (almost not visible, same for the fold pattern), so i think polish was very simple. But for the price? No complaints; it cuts very nice with soft targets and feels quite solid. Saya fit is good at the mouth but thee is definitely blade rattle. Hi Dandelion. Is purple your favorite color? Your katana looks nice. The semi-custom I have coming in hopefully soon is one of their higher end models, so I hope the QC will be a little better, and some of the minor negatives will have been corrected or non-existant.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 16, 2020 17:08:37 GMT
From my point of view, a company that has a special edition to celebrate an important event will not use rejects. Traditionally, the items are made in one batch, and hand selected and reviewed by management to ensure they meet the very highest standards. The company never makes money from these things, but instead they use them for advertising. I've never dealt with JKOO, so I won't know what to compare the sword with. Hopefully it's something really special, if not, it will make a very nice beater none the less. Either way, I'm one of the 15. Hi Rufus. The only thing that makes me pause when you say that they make these in one batch is that these 15th Anniversary katana have the option of bo-hi or no-hi. What if all fifteen buyers all chose the no-hi option, and JKoo had already made half and half? Or any other combination of number of one blade type vs the other? I would almost think the company would have to wait to see what their 15 customers wanted before they made at least some of the blades. In any case, this is a good price, and I enjoy you and the other buyers get some excellent swords. I, too, am interested in comparing what everyone gets. There are only two approaches to that from a manufacturing point of view: 1: The special editions are bin part blades that will be pulled out of the bucket, inspected for the "best of batch" and then finished with the Mei engraving (possibly given extra polish) and then fitted out by hand according to the customer's options. 2: The blades will be made when all 15 are sold (which shouldn't take long) and run through on a special batch. Either way, for a buck and a half it's not bad deal. At a minimum, they are still hand forged blades and not CNC cut from stock. I did notice that the accessory options for the 15 aren't in their regular catalog, so there is that at least. If they do all of what would be expected of a company's commemorative anniversary special editions, they certainly aren't making any money. They will be putting $500 of labor into a $100 sword. It is also customary for commemorative products to come with special certificates or packaging to separate them out from the normal offerings. That may or may not happen, if it does, I will be ecstatic because that is what could possibly make the swords worth some money in a few years (so keep your receipt- it will show the options you picked and the blade number). I've done such things before for companies I've worked with and for gifts for retirees and so forth. The money spent is not that big of a deal when a company is doing well on sales. Sinosword advertises they sold 10k swords in the last 15 years, I doubt 15 "giveaways" are going to hurt them in any way whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on Jul 16, 2020 19:33:16 GMT
I got an email from Jkoo's Van Yang yesterday. He said the 15 specials are being made basically at their cost. So it feels more like a celebration/promotion event than regular business. Jkoo has sold cheaply, defects and customer orders where the customer did not come thru on payment for whatever reason. This looks like a case of good, new blades being made for a special event for Sino/Jkoo. (the Sino/Jkoo workers will likely celebrate with a nice dinner, if my own experience as the one anglo in an otherwise all Chinese extended family is a prediction)
All that IMO remains any danger from getting a good Sino/Jkoo basic DH 1095 katana is that the pre-shipping q.c. inspections are done well.
Also, I asked about different grades of samegawa being available and real leather ito instead of synthetic leather ito.
Van Yang said he thought he could get better rayskin (and did for a recent customer...bigger nodules, emperor..) so I would suggest asking about higher grade rayskin availability. He said something about rayskin purchases and Customs. I'll plan to email Sino/Jkoo to tell them that some of us are ordering and to inspect carefully, before shipping. Kane Yang I'm sure (stop at the 2nd drink :-)) will inspect carefully. But I am a natural nag and worrier, so will send a nagagram. :-) RinC p.s. Van Yang said real leather ito is too hard to work with (for them anyway rinc). Synthetic leather is easier to use for ito.
|
|
|
Post by soulfromheart on Jul 17, 2020 14:22:38 GMT
Thank you RinC for the good info. It seems a very good deal and Mr Kane is very responsive and very patient (he has my deepest gratitude, I don't remember asking so many questions to any other vendors...). Top grade rayskin with bigger nodules have an extra cost of 15, a more complex hamon other than their midare standard an extra 30 as they have to make new blade. Mine shall be Number 4 if I understood correctly.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 17, 2020 14:40:52 GMT
Do we know if JKOO is making a promotional vid or something with these swords? It seems to me that they would want to document everything for advertising purposes and so forth. I would love to get a copy of it if they ever do something like that.
So then, would purchasing these 15 make us a "fellowship of the sword" or something?
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 9,877
Member is Online
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jul 17, 2020 15:21:02 GMT
Fifteen men on the dead man's chest— ...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum! Drink and the devil had done for the rest— ...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 17, 2020 15:23:59 GMT
On second thought, "one sword to rule them all".... maybe I don't really want to be one of the fifteen... but then again.... why not? Its mine...why can't I have it?
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on Jul 17, 2020 17:29:46 GMT
I suggested a special bag/box/certificate/something to commenerate. No reply yet. They are a small forge. I would wild ass guess no more than 10 people now (used to be bigger but something happened about 2015...don't recall what). Van Yang has been pretty busy of late.
Also keep in mind, simple English is best. They try but for example, here is Van's last reply. You will note the English is not perfect. ====================Van Yang reply to me on a related topic================ "This anniversary katana is selling very fast, We sell it almost no profit, But it with much more sense for us. And thanks for your suggestion, See attached picture for we picked large nodes of rayskin for customer. the quality of rayskin is not steady, We can't import rayskin by ourself because of quarantine inspection in customs. So if customer have this special request, We also can offer larger nodes of rayskin. We can't find quality real leather for ito using, mostly real leather are too hard to wrap. Karl's katana is forged by T10 steel, We only can do prefect choji hamon on mono T10/1095 blade." =========================================================================== (Karl's choji (a youtube) katana has an unusually nice choji hamon, that IMO is almost as nice as some of Huawei's fancy choji hamons....said Huawei choji hamons I am a great admirer of)
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on Jul 17, 2020 17:32:15 GMT
I am thinking of asking Jkoo about tea staining of their raw, white rayskin...Motohara did it on a sword...gives antique look...real nice. Better than simple black (ugh!) dying (or other color).
|
|
|
Post by vidar on Jul 17, 2020 18:49:07 GMT
I suggested a special bag/box/certificate/something to commenerate. No reply yet. They are a small forge. I would wild ass guess no more than 10 people now (used to be bigger but something happened about 2015...don't recall what). According to their own website, they made over 20,000 swords so far. So that’s 1333 per year, 111 per month or 5 per day (in China people work 6 days per week). So they cannot be THAT small Question: I’m considering to buy their Dotanuki katana. I’d use it as heavy cutter for bamboo. @ Robert, are you still happy with yours? Is there something I should keep in mind before ordering? Did someone ever receive a sword from Jkoo that was really not okay, quality-wise?
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on Jul 18, 2020 13:12:14 GMT
Hi Vidar, .1. Jkoo/Sino wholesales and I am told, make swords for other sellers...so make of that what you will. .2. I am guessing here..only guessing...but they used to be a bigger outfit, but now are smaller, so my guess is that whatever it was happened about 2015, ever since, sales volume is lower. Certainly the Chinese government people have not been friends to the Chinese sword industry, what with banning Chinese subjects from buying sharp swords and shipping restrictions. .3. I am VERY happy with my Sino/Jkoo dotanuki (29"). The nitpicking is in my review of it here at SBG. If something tough absolutely, positively needs to be cut..... :-) .4. Bad swords? Sure. Hoping to get J.W.P. to do a positive youtube video review, he was send a Sino/Jkoo katana (T10). The blade took a set (bent) on cutting bamboo. So a 2nd sword was sent. It was too heavy and it was the 2nd (or maybe it was the first...think the 2nd) that someone at Sino/Jkoo shimmed a poorly fitting habaki with a piece of wood (breathtaking dumb thing to do!) and it was too heavy. So Jkoo/Sino sent a sanmai (my idea) and the review is here at SBG but J.W.P. did not like it and as far as I know, did not review it. He liked the hour glass tsuka better than the regular Sino/Jkoo tsukas, but noted it did not hold its edge as well as the mono DH swords. And he and his brother "Maeywn" have been understandably critics of Sino/Jkoo (and me) ever since. Which is completely understandable. I'd probably be the same, if my only Sino/Jkoo experience had been the same.
However, Jkoo/Sino tsuka wraps are as good as anything I've seen (like my Huewei's) and better than most. The blades good. Other features are nice. And Van Yang seemed to be sincere in improving products to the extent he had (as part owner of Jkoo) ability to do. And I am comfortable with Chinese (married in China, to Chinese family) and our social circle is mostly Asians, so I have been pushing (via Van Yang) product quality improvements....pre-shipping quality control inspections in particular. Van Yang has been very gracious.
|
|
|
Post by vidar on Jul 18, 2020 19:58:43 GMT
Many thanks, Robert.
It’s indeed a very good thing that they listen to customer feedback and strive to improve their products. In the end, I won’t mind paying another 100$, if that’s what it takes to get thorough Quality control.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2020 20:23:12 GMT
My girlfriend has been looking into getting a katana so I nabbed one of these after reading the thread. This is my first go at a Ebay/Longquan direct forge purchase so if anything worse case scenario it'll make a good review video and give her something to hang on the wall lol.
|
|
|
Post by tancred on Jul 18, 2020 23:12:18 GMT
So, that's five of the fifteen swords going to SBG members? I'm interested to hear what theme of koshirae and color and material ito everyone went with.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 19, 2020 0:28:59 GMT
I only half thought about the trim options. I ordered the bo-hi with brown leather tsuka,, #1 saya, and the #3 kishore (dragonflies). No particular meaning for any of it except that I wanted a bo-hi blade.
|
|
|
Post by RaylonTheDemented on Jul 19, 2020 0:45:59 GMT
So, that's five of the fifteen swords going to SBG members? I'm interested to hear what theme of koshirae and color and material ito everyone went with. Ordered this one for my son when he turns 15 in 6 months - IF its good enough, otherwise I'll get something else. Fittings don't have much to do with what I personally like, but the son likes dragons, so...
|
|
|
Post by nddave on Jul 19, 2020 11:21:54 GMT
So, that's five of the fifteen swords going to SBG members? I'm interested to hear what theme of koshirae and color and material ito everyone went with. She chose: no-hi, #2 koshirae (flower theme), black synthetic silk ito, and the burgundy #1 saya.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 19, 2020 13:47:49 GMT
Many thanks, Robert. It’s indeed a very good thing that they listen to customer feedback and strive to improve their products. In the end, I won’t mind paying another 100$, if that’s what it takes to get thorough Quality control. Well, I'll try to keep this as short as possible. First, in the interest of full disclosure: I teach Quality Management to industrial customers. It's a small part of what I do, but an important one. I have clients who work for well known global companies at the executive level. So I know a small amount about quality and how it applies to manufacturing and sales. With that said, the concept of "quality" has to be looked at from two perspectives: 1. from manufacturing, and 2. from the customer's expectations. Quality in manufacturing is relatively easy. It involves a company setting a series of parameters that they want their finished product to meet, then comparing the results to their standards. This involves things such as color variation, length tolerances, maximum amount of allowable errors, and so forth. With this in mind, a company can have a somewhat sloppy product, but if it meets their internal standards, then it can honestly said to be "quality". Quality from a customer's perspective is much more difficult to nail down. This is where a good marketing department is worth their weight in gold. What, exactly, does the customer expect "quality" to look like? That can be very difficult to nail down. For example, if I say "quality" and then mention you need a car to drive to work, then have you look at a Chevrolet, you would think that the Chevrolet is "quality", because it's durable and fit for the purpose you desire. If I said you would be driving cross country on a regular basis, then say "quality", and mention Mercedes, you would think about the Mercedes as the quality product over the Chevrolet simply based on the purpose you intend to use the car for. Both, however, are very good at their purpose. Customer's perspectives of "quality" are fuzzy at best, but it is possible to nail down some specifics. But when it comes to swords, the marketing isn't that good when it comes to educating the customers. It's been my experience that when talking about at Katana, the average person thinks all kats are museum quality art swords of the highest construction standards, mainly due to pop culture and mythology. In the real world, the actual samurai probably had an art sword hanging in their home, but wore a more mundane and workaday sword for actual use. The problem comes with the expectations. You aren't getting an art sword for $150. You aren't getting one for under $5k most likely. But you certainly can get a solid workaday sword for $150- jut don't expect the fit and finish to be all that great. This is where most buyers will expect to get Mercedes quality and options at a Chevrolet price. No, you will get a Chevrolet at a Chevrolet price, and a Mercedes at a Mercedes price. But both are fit for their intended purpose. When I look at sword reviews for the people that didn't like what they got, except for the rare occurrence of an early failure (not due to abuse), most of the time it's because they expected higher quality than they actually paid for. Now, to think that you can "just pay an extra $100" and get a better sword from the same manufacturer is probably not going to happen. To raise the "quality" of a blade, it involves much more than just taking extra time to create the product. You have to look at the company culture first- the materials and manufacturing process come last. I can go into much more detail, but the bottom line in context to the Jkoo 15th Anniversary edition swords is that I expect to get a better sword than Jkoo would normally sell, but I still don't expect an art sword. And I am thrilled to be getting one of the 15.
|
|
|
Post by johnf on Jul 19, 2020 20:58:00 GMT
Hello all. Mine is No 6. Bohi, Black Cotton/REAL silk, Saya#2, BR003.
|
|