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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 14:13:23 GMT
I have yet to encounter a person who is a fan of the spadroon. The general consensus seems to be that the spadroon was designed to look pretty and to be used very rarely in the act of self defense, and in that sense it was far better than a rock or a blade of grass. Furthermore, most people I talk to about the weapon think it is rubbish at cutting and equally rubbish at thrusting.
So, are there any spadroons that don't suck? Why or why not?
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Post by wlewisiii on Aug 28, 2019 14:26:24 GMT
Start here:
Then ponder the Ames Model 1840 NCO sword. I'd argue it was actually a pretty good spadroon.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Aug 28, 2019 14:28:41 GMT
I've never seen a spadroon which doesn't make too many compromises away from dedicated functionality. They are all too clumsy to be a smallsword, and too flimsy to be a pallasch/broadsword.
I absolutely hate the spadroon hilt designs I've seen. They removed the fine point control lent from finger rings, and generally have dainty ovoid handles which don't lend themselves to good edge alignment. The guards are usually a variation on a smallsword guard (or less), and tend to be suited more for wearing, rather than fighting.
Spadroons seem purpose built to be bad swords.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 14:45:27 GMT
Then ponder the Ames Model 1840 NCO sword. I'd argue it was actually a pretty good spadroon.
This the sword you're talking about? Matt has a rather dim view of it, but I am wondering if it could be reprofiled a bit. I found a wiki article on it and the contemporary view was that it was hilt heavy and clunky.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 28, 2019 14:53:57 GMT
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 28, 2019 15:02:31 GMT
I like spadroons and have two. Universal’s P1796 and a Windlass, now being called the Ames Model 1840 NCO. Matt Easton has three videos involving spaldroons, principally the P1796 where he goes from disfavour on up. My P1796 I believe exceeded Universal’s tolerances and should not have been released. It’s a beautiful sword and I love looking at it but in the end it’s a wall hanger. The blade specs on my are greater the KoA’s by a good margin throwing the balance and handling off. In fact the blade would not fit into the sheath another reason I think it should have been a second. The EN9 metal is too soft to hold an edge. All of that being said it will out penetrate anything I have. I would buy another if they would produce it in 1055 or better steel as it appears is the direction Universal is going. Windlass’ Ames model is no more than their old standard version in new clothes, principally offering it in a leather sheath. For a little eye candy they have reproduced an original’s manufacturing markings on both sides of the ricasso. So it’s no different really than their less expensive, older version that comes in a white metal scabbard. I chose the Ames version because of the leather sheath. The blade will remain sharper longer in leather. Some will like the leather because it is more historically correct for the earlier issues and when they went to a steel scabbard it wasn’t a white metal. I love that sword and it’s amongst my favourites. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/56791/windlass-new-m1840-sword-5000836?page=2
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 15:10:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 15:58:23 GMT
I have yet to encounter a person who is a fan of the spadroon. The general consensus seems to be that the spadroon was designed to look pretty and to be used very rarely in the act of self defense, and in that sense it was far better than a rock or a blade of grass. Furthermore, most people I talk to about the weapon think it is rubbish at cutting and equally rubbish at thrusting.
So, are there any spadroons that don't suck? Why or why not?
You don't know me very well, do you? Also, I might ask. You don't know spadroons very well do you? Cheers GC
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 16:03:36 GMT
I have yet to encounter a person who is a fan of the spadroon. The general consensus seems to be that the spadroon was designed to look pretty and to be used very rarely in the act of self defense, and in that sense it was far better than a rock or a blade of grass. Furthermore, most people I talk to about the weapon think it is rubbish at cutting and equally rubbish at thrusting.
So, are there any spadroons that don't suck? Why or why not?
You don't know me very well, do you? Also, I might ask. You don't know spadroons very well do you? Cheers GC Admittedly, I know very little about spadroons, but I would like to learn more. Ideally, I would like to own a replica spadroon that is not complete rubbish. So I am soliciting some wisdom here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 16:20:02 GMT
Btw, while many are adoring the US m1840 nco, they are not amongst my own favorites. It is easy enough to start a debate on spadroons (and I can point to quite a few here at SBG alone) but it is an entirely different matter to put things in context and list examples, inclusions and actual personal experience with antiques. I'll leave the semantic and characterization as to "what is a spadroon?" to the needy of debate and simply point to the search function. Cheers GC I own a great many more true spadroons than these three quite sturdy guys below and simply reiterate that many simply don't know what they are talking about. If one wants to then debate any number of straight swords, this swamp only gets more mired in misconceptions. The word spadroon is easily entered in any search function.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 16:28:48 GMT
Lovely photos! Thanks, man. Also, what a gorgeous yataghan in the last photo!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 16:29:05 GMT
As to reproductions, I'll leave it to those owning them (I don't own any reproduction spadroons).
A period U.S. m1840 nco or shorter musicians sword are often found in the $200 range without a scabbard. They are an ok start for those entering the antique field and as most aren't exactly rare, are quite capable to be sharpened and used.
Cheers GC
I own many more spadroons than fingers on my hands, again posted frequently.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 28, 2019 16:38:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 16:57:17 GMT
Lovely photos! Thanks, man. Also, what a gorgeous yataghan in the last photo! A sidebar in and of itself, my first sword length antique blade. Less than the cost of many reproduction swords. I watched that on a dealer's site for a few years before taking the plunge. I've never really looked back in the past decade or so but have picked up some bargain modern stuff from time to time. To be honest, the best buzzes lately for a straight early modern sword revolve around the mortuary and other baskethilt backswords. The us m1840 reproductions are cheap. Honestly, if I were looking at a straight bladed reproduction right now it would be www.theroyalsword.com/swords/french-soldier-sword-with-half-counterguard.htmlA stouter and slightly shorter blade. My latest antique short straight job from the Mexican War period and these are quite stabby swords. The later longer blades have all the faults of flexible flyers. No, I have not sharpened my flock of them. I do cut with some sharp antiques (spadroons and sabres). Between condo life and other limitations, my cutting days are infrequent at best. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/58148/another-centurion-pommel-mexican-periodFound at the price of the Windlass NCO and also most of the swords I picture in that thread. We open our wallets and make our choices. What are you going to do with it? I'll bet Deepeeka has one. Cheers GC
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 28, 2019 17:31:19 GMT
Lovely photos! Thanks, man. Also, what a gorgeous yataghan in the last photo! I'll bet Deepeeka has one. And it could be yours for $30.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Aug 28, 2019 17:34:31 GMT
Well, well. I just 30 minutes ago bought this French Consulat / First Empire Dragoon Officers 7 ball spadroon with a 83 cm blade and now there is spadroon dissing going on? I like spadroons very much and some are very well made fighting swords. Then again some people get it and some don't.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 28, 2019 17:44:41 GMT
A while back there was a nice Rose NCO sword replica in eBay that I believe Edelweiss posted. That would've been my candidate for a good spadroon readily available but I can't find it now...
The 1840 NCO is a good sword, in my opinion it's the "militarized smallsword" taken to a better height. It doesn't do so well cutting I think, but it can, and actually is a good thruster due to its stiffness lent by the cross section of a long central fuller and basically no real cutting foible.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 18:56:33 GMT
A while back there was a nice Rose NCO sword replica in eBay that I believe Edelweiss posted. That would've been my candidate for a good spadroon readily available but I can't find it now... The 1840 NCO is a good sword, in my opinion it's the "militarized smallsword" taken to a better height. It doesn't do so well cutting I think, but it can, and actually is a good thruster due to its stiffness lent by the cross section of a long central fuller and basically no real cutting foible. The Rose reproductions sold out, I think there were three or four that sold over the summer. www.ebay.com/sch/paint2/m.html?Cheers GC RoseTHOUGHTS ON THE MODEL 1812 NON-COMMISSI....pdf (241.9 KB)
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Post by howler on Aug 28, 2019 19:09:12 GMT
If robust enough, spadroons seem pretty deadly to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 19:24:23 GMT
Troubles parsing attachments but the above should be right now. My 1820 dated m1818 STARR nco artllery/infantry sword and a context for Lewis&Clark and STARR swords. STARR had swords much like the Rose contracts over the decades. Just a note to add that my Starr above is not the twin of the one currently on ebay, that also has a frog and minty look. The earlier models of the STARR hanger had a plain sheet counterguard instead of the later plain stirrup. My older French hanger, from the early 18th century, a granddaddy to these 19th century swords. Cheers GC
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