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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Jun 23, 2016 13:37:56 GMT
Yes, I guess it is possible. Never said it wasn't. I just don't like the idea of it being a "first-line" strategy when facing a sword with a knife. If someone put a gun to my head and told me I must not use any other method of defending myself, then I'd give it a try. Otherwise I think there are much better options (much better meaning the odds against the sword still suck but just not as much).
Naturally, your mileage may vary. People have preferences in martial techniques as with everything else.
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Post by Derzis on Jun 23, 2016 18:05:09 GMT
Let yourself be stabbed with the sword in a non-fatal spot, then stab the sucker on the face and neck as many times as you can. /moviesolution What makes you think you will get stabbed before slashed/cut? If the guy wants to keep his advantage will never stab but slash. At least is how I would do. Keeping the sword in motion and cutting you 1000 times before stabbing you once.
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Post by Derzis on Jun 23, 2016 18:16:12 GMT
PS I am with Chenessfan in this one. Both vids are showing flaws in the way the sword-guy gets involved in the fight. In real life, running is the best solution. If you think aikido will help you against a real swordsman who wants to kill you, you are dreaming - or you think you are O Sensei. In worst case scenario - the one in which I can't run -I would try to take out my belt from my pants and use the length of it +buckle against his sword and the knife extra blade.
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Post by Cosmoline on Jun 23, 2016 18:24:03 GMT
If you're spry and can get into close measure, you can certainly win against a longsword. Esp. in harness where the longsword's attacks are limited. I've found it's actually more difficult to deal with a sword and buckler with the rondel.
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Post by Derzis on Jun 23, 2016 18:34:25 GMT
If you're spry and can get into close measure, you can certainly win against a longsword. In kata and prearranged scenarios maybe. In real life I doubt it. Nobody here consider the option in which the guy with the sword has even better skills than the knife guy. And in real life thinking you are better than the opponent is the path to the grave.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 23, 2016 19:23:23 GMT
At 3:27 you will see the dagger take out a spearman. Here the technique is different. The point is while not the weapon of choice a dagger is not impotent giving one a fighting chance.
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Post by Derzis on Jun 23, 2016 19:36:29 GMT
At 3:27 you will see the dagger take out a spearman. Here the technique is different. The point is while not the weapon of choice a dagger is not impotent giving one a fighting chance. Could you please make the difference between "someone who wants to kill you" and "sparring to see if I can get you"? Two different mind-sets. IF I really want to kill you and I have the sword, you will get killed - no matter how good you think you are. The opposite is available too, if I want to kill you with a knife, I will kill you when you are least expecting it, with sword on you or not. Both are talking about opportunities from attacker point of view and knowing when is the right moment to make the move because otherwise you are dead. Different than sparring for points shown in the vids, where the sword guy forgot to have the initiative since he is too confident. PS ANYTHING against sword is better than having empty hands and it gives you a fighting chance. But are you ready to bet your life on that chance? This is the real question for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 20:53:51 GMT
It isn't really worth worrying if the guy with the sword is better, if he's better he will probably win, that's kind of what "better" means.
if he's better than you, you're probably going to lose. Better luck next time should have trained harder. Doesn't matter if he's got a sword, a spear, or a fighter jet.
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Post by Derzis on Jun 23, 2016 20:55:51 GMT
It isn't really worth worrying if the guy with the sword is better, if he's better he will probably win, that's kind of what "better" means. if he's better than you, you're probably going to lose. Better luck next time should have trained harder. Doesn't matter if he's got a sword, a spear, or a fighter jet. "Probably" doesn't fit the description. "You are going to lose" is more accurate.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 20:59:11 GMT
Right, but there's always luck. If he had bad fish or drank too much the night before or has an aneurysm or something that doesn't mean you are better just lucky.
But for the most part yes.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 23, 2016 23:08:12 GMT
I have never advocated in using a knife as such, read my posts. While saying a dagger is not a weapon of choice I showed a technique possible to gave some type of defence, as requested, as a last ditch method. Another video also shows that it can be done, not with 100% certainty, and another his experience with katana vs wakizashi. And I have said there is no guarantee. As with any combat victory depends on luck and skill. Let’s go back to the original post in this thread; Demonking asks “i was wondering how would a knife user defend himself against a sword user”. And I showed a technique, plane and simple. Whatever is being posted other than in response to the question in the original post is missing the point, or adlibbing . Personally in a pinch I would use anything available to fight with rather than saying “you got me, say good-bye, and offer my opponent a free cut”, because my weapon is inferior, not me.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 23, 2016 23:22:14 GMT
I have to wonder if it wouldn't really be better to simply throw the knife from just outside sword range, then try to tackle the swordsman. Blocking the sword arm and taking him down unarmed doesn't seem that different from doing it with a knife in hand, and getting the sword guy to hesitate might be key. Certainty of death? Small chance of success? What are we waiting for?
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Post by Derzis on Jun 23, 2016 23:40:31 GMT
Let’s go back to the original post in this thread; Demonking asks “i was wondering how would a knife user defend himself against a sword user”. And I showed a technique, plane and simple. Whatever is being posted other than in response to the question in the original post is missing the point, or adlibbing . A simple question has a simple answer: Q: -“i was wondering how would a knife user defend himself against a sword user”. A: - "with very limited chances to survive" When you post a vid, is no more plane and simple. The defending option proposed is not realistic. There is no intention from the sword guy to hurt you. Actually there is no intention whatsoever from his point of view. Your chances to get him as you are showing at a sparring speed are slim to none if he is equal skilled as you. And knife doesn't equal with dagger, if you really want to go there, talking about ad-libbing or missing the point.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 23, 2016 23:47:55 GMT
I have to wonder if it wouldn't really be better to simply throw the knife from just outside sword range, then try to tackle the swordsman. ... or keep the knife, and just tackle the swordsman. Tackling can work, and has worked in real life, in real fights, against opponents armed with real swords. If the swordsman raises the blade for a downward cut. Otherwise, throwing the knife at the face might provide a suitable distraction (and bring the hands and blade up).
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Post by Derzis on Jun 24, 2016 0:04:34 GMT
Timo, is not the tackling that worked in real life. Is the "SURPRISE ELEMENT" that worked. A knee on your face or a punch with the empty hand when the sword guy sees you bending forward will make the tackling worthless. Find and exploit surprise element and you will get less harmed from a sempriniesque situation.
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Post by Croccifixio on Jun 24, 2016 0:56:25 GMT
Let yourself be stabbed with the sword in a non-fatal spot, then stab the sucker on the face and neck as many times as you can. /moviesolution What makes you think you will get stabbed before slashed/cut? If the guy wants to keep his advantage will never stab but slash. At least is how I would do. Keeping the sword in motion and cutting you 1000 times before stabbing you once. That's too logical for a movie.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jun 24, 2016 1:29:36 GMT
Let yourself be stabbed with the sword in a non-fatal spot, then stab the sucker on the face and neck as many times as you can. /moviesolution What makes you think you will get stabbed before slashed/cut? If the guy wants to keep his advantage will never stab but slash. At least is how I would do. Keeping the sword in motion and cutting you 1000 times before stabbing you once. You seem to be under the impression that he was actually advocating this tactic. I'd check that assumption. 😂
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 24, 2016 2:42:40 GMT
Here is a video that maybe helpful. Although it is designed from the rapier’s point of view a knife fighter will find some useful tips. There is also a sequel concerning dagger and sabre. I don’t agree entirely seeing in some cases where a modification would be an improvement. But for what it’s worth.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 24, 2016 2:56:38 GMT
Timo, is not the tackling that worked in real life. Is the "SURPRISE ELEMENT" that worked. Same thing with any technique. If a punch lands, it's because the opponent was surprised enough that they failed to defend themselves adequately. Ditto for kicks, takedowns, sweeps, thrusts, cuts, etc. Despite the importance of surprise, it's still normal to say that the punch worked. A knee on your face or a punch with the empty hand when the sword guy sees you bending forward will make the tackling worthless. I'd worry more about the sword than a fist or knee. Sidestep to avoid the tackle and a cut would ruin your day. (Knee to face can work as takedown defence, but IMO better to stop the takedown first (e.g., sprawl), and then knee them.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 11:25:18 GMT
There isn't a single thing that cannot be countered. It might not be easy to recognize what you should do, or easy to do it, but there's always something that can or could have been done.
Two perfect fighters where neither makes a single mistake gets you a stalemate. Unstoppable force on an unmovable object - maybe interesting to wonder about but we can't really do a whole lot with it.
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