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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 9, 2015 4:02:52 GMT
I didn't say that there was only one forge, I said that several vendors may share a single forge and claim that it is theirs. There are many forges, and vendors probably switch forges from time to time to save money, add variety, etc.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 9, 2015 4:08:53 GMT
Right, I suppose that makes sense. I still think the shipping information points ryan to be a reseller more than not. The Ryansword listings in there had multiple addresses (probably? they had the same zip). When my diasho comes in, I can check to see if Sheng's has changed at all. Then again, I suppose they could rent a building, name it X sword factory, and ship from there after they've resold it, it is just that I find one testimony to be more likely inaccurate than I do this large scheme that is being suggested where people rent out and/or buy buildings just to ship from. These guys are already making less a month than I do in retail on customs (assuming they make a half dozen swords along with mine), so it seems to that this would not be a good idea.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 9, 2015 4:50:24 GMT
Yep, I don't doubt that RS is a possible reseller. I also think that there a few of these vendors that do operate out of their own forge. I just don't know who is who.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 9, 2015 4:55:12 GMT
I just messaged Sheng and apologized for asking a weird question, but for him to show me a picture of his forge. I has seen pictures taken in what is supposedly his forge (ie, he pulled the blades out of the pile, tossed them on the floor and took a picture, and in another instance, had the polisher stop polishing, took a picture, then had him go back to polishing) but not of his forge itself. It seems to me that his casual "just take a picture of the sword from wherever it was instead of the studio" attitude he had during the start of this commission makes it appear as though he runs his own team. The setup in the background of these images looked similar to that of Paul's videos. I'll let you guys know what he responds with.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 9, 2015 5:01:02 GMT
Thanks, Kiyoshi.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Oct 9, 2015 11:37:51 GMT
That's big news since Donnie's vocal style worked for Ryan and worked to counteract this review. Here lemme post it in quotes: Now Donnie might be a bit fiery at times, and sometimes a bit aggressive, but I had always felt he was sincere in this Ryanswords gig. Good on him, and good on Digs for doing this for the community way before. So... while I sincerely (nice way of saying the absolutely do) believe that other sellers do fake sanmai, the part that bothers me is he says that all of those swords are made by ryan swords. My question becomes this, is he referring to JUST laminated blades or ALL blades? If all, I have a much harder time believing that. Swords are shipped from different locations, many of which are visible on google maps as separate factories. I find it hard to believe that they have several fake factories just to fake making things from different sellers who compete with each other for business and instead all swords are ryan swords swords. Why would there be such a big difference between mount and geometry quality between forges if they were all made by the same group? I can see mounts, ryanswords makes the blade, sends it, but the blades themselves are much different. Let's also not forget that there are video tours of multiple factories available on YouTube. This leads me to believe that either he is referring to all laminated blades only (which I doubt) or all blades, which to me seems stupendously unlikely. One can justify the competition with things like commission. One can justify mount quality with the factory that makes them doesn't mount them. However, I find it hardly likely that sellers would purchase a relatively steady quality of sword (many sellers have poor quality) and not what sells most. Yes, I believe that ryansword and really everyone else sells fake sanmai, but places like huawei, st-nihonto, and even-sword, don't sell blades of the same quality, nor are their production times the same. So unless I see more compelling evidence that they are the same, I will refrain from changing my view that they come from competing forges who all will rip you off if you attempt to buy laminated blades (except for huawei which doesn't offer them). Regarding Donnie's claim that all Ryan Swords, St. Nihonto and Swords of Northshire laminated blades are fake -- I think the greater majority are fake but not all. And this goes for most of the ebay sellers of LongQuan, China (perhaps other places as well). It's not the forges fault because the forges only forge the blades, it's the ebay sellers fault. The sellers are passing 100% damascus blades as sanmai, honsanmai, shihozume, etc. to make extra profit. At times ebay sellers might let a real laminated blade go to their friends, good customers, or business rep, but most are fake. You don't need a metallurgist, you don't need microscopes, you don't need lasers, and you don't need to cut the blade in half to tell if the blade is 100% damascus or if it has a unfolded steel core. It's obvious with plain sight. All you have to do is open your eyes and look at the blade. So I am not convinced that the sellers are not aware of what they are selling. . |
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 9, 2015 12:08:48 GMT
I'm not disagreeing that the laminated blades are fake. What I find hard to believe is that they are all being produced by the same factory. Sheng said that his forge and theirs was not the same, they were two in the same city. I asked him again for pictures so we'll see if I ever get them.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Oct 9, 2015 15:38:42 GMT
It should be noted that reviews on this board do have an impact and do provide a service to the public. Note the feedback comment left by the 'buyer' (FYI: this buyer is not me).  . |
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 9, 2015 17:03:14 GMT
Note that swordmaker688 san-mai blades have been shown to be real.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Oct 9, 2015 17:33:43 GMT
Guess that's another closed facebook group where the cool kids hang out... There are so many of those closed facebook groups and I guess I ain't one of the cool kids.  Would be much more fun to discuss this matter if Donnie was writing that on this forum. For example I can't see what has been discussed in the other place, so I don't want to get involved and I kinda feel pro-SBG. |
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 9, 2015 17:59:36 GMT
Don't worry Jussi, I have no interest in blowing up my feed with another group so I have no clue either. I'd rather the information be open or on this board as well. I was under the assumption that the links posted were in an attempt to get us to join said group until someone mentioned what was going on in the group. I still have no intention of joining though.
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Post by Croccifixio on Oct 9, 2015 18:23:35 GMT
He posted it in the SBG group run by Daniel though.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Oct 9, 2015 18:39:24 GMT
Well I was slightly kidding but I am not a fan of all the closed facebook groups, not even the SBG group.  It's good thing that we are discussing this issue in here. I think that it's good to have discussion in the forum, I've noticed that it's been quite quiet in here lately. My assumption was people were discussing in facebook groups or somewhere else? Guess I needed to make an anti-facebook rant.  I'm bit surprised how heated the relation between Donnie & Ryansword seems to have evolved but I can't say it was a huge surprise in the end, after all business is business. Production sword world seems quite hostile in the recent years, that or I'm just getting old and remembering the "golden years" better than they were (and I didn't know as much back then). |
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 9, 2015 22:56:34 GMT
I'm not in the SBG facebook group either. >>
Would anyone care to tell an uneducated person like me who donnie is and his relationship with ryansword?
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Oct 9, 2015 23:07:02 GMT
I'm not in the SBG facebook group either. >> Would anyone care to tell an uneducated person like me who donnie is and his relationship with ryansword? Donnie was the USA rep for Ryanswords until they had a falling out. Probably due to the realization that the laminated swords are fake and RS does not want to change their fraudulent activities. |
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 9, 2015 23:08:31 GMT
Thanks. I figured by the information posted here that he worked from them, I just didn't know how. On the group, did he ever clarify if all blades were supposedly made by ryanswords, just the laminated ones, or was that misinformation?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 9, 2015 23:20:56 GMT
Donnie is MadDogDonnieReed here. He became the stateside rep for Ryansword for a time. Based on his comments, he discovered that Digs' findings concerning the false claims of lamination were true, and that not all the orders he's taken and submitted have been filled by RS, who seem to have taken the position that he is lying and simply took the money for the non-filled orders. He has subsequently left the organization, and is working towards rectifying any damages/loss that customers incurred on his watch. He has limited his scope to RS, st-nihonto and Swords of Northshire as the businesses that operate under RS. I took that he meant that it was any blade that they sell as laminated that are being falsely advertised. I believe the claim is that they are mostly all the same blades as the $100 folded 1060 line, just given aesthetic treatments to appear laminated. I may not be 100% accurate in my statements though. It may behoove anybody who wants totally accurate information to ask Donnie himself. It may take him a bit to respond, as he's trying to tie up loose ends business-wise and reported that he is suffering some health issues, but I imagine that he'll get back to you.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 9, 2015 23:24:03 GMT
I see. I'll have to give him a message and see then. Thanks for the information. |
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Post by Kiyoshi on Oct 10, 2015 16:47:22 GMT
I've heard back from Sheng. He says that he has sent my swords in the mail and he will take a picture of his forge tomorrow. He is not always the best at sending pictures on time, so it might be a few days but at the least, he is willing to send one.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 10, 2015 23:43:07 GMT
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