|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 15, 2015 21:52:52 GMT
Funny thing is that I've bought blades advertised as "folded" and gotten sanmai (with folded sides).
|
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Jul 16, 2015 2:36:14 GMT
Funny thing is that I've bought blades advertised as "folded" and gotten sanmai (with folded sides). Ah the life of the ebay forge. Honestly, I think a lot of the time (and no matter how hard you try), there's gonna be a language barrier as to what one wants. I think for these chinatanas, you're always gonna be better off asking for simple construction since you're less likely to be disappointed with the blade (and the pricing). |
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on Jul 16, 2015 3:16:14 GMT
How are we supposed to even believe the steel type being advertised? If one feature is being falsified what's to stop the vendor, whomever it may be, from lying about another?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 4:35:10 GMT
How are we supposed to even believe the steel type being advertised? If one feature is being falsified what's to stop the vendor, whomever it may be, from lying about another? that really is a frightening question right now... i just cancelled my remaining orders and gonna try something from Zhi Forge or Jkoo who have at least a much better reputation... |
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Jul 16, 2015 9:07:50 GMT
That's the beauty of the SBG review system. Any ebay production will normally run the gauntlet of the SBG reviews, and will gain a reputation for either consistent excellence (as in the case of Huawei), good value for money (as in the case of Hanbon/St-Nihonto), or inconsistency at best (Ryansword). The less known ones are harder to pin down, but so long as people care enough, their rep will eventually be established by hands-on reviews.
Anyone can put up a forge and fudge their ratings. I've found ebay's rating to be extremely unreliable, as most customers won't know better - they think that the sword is already good enough - and will give high ratings. It's really the methodical analysis of SBG (and some other similar sites) which matters in the long run.
|
|
|
|
Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 16, 2015 11:15:52 GMT
yeah, right...but most of the chinese sellers do this type of "fraud"...so why pick out Ryan Swords again? Possibly because Ryan sword seem to make a habit of doing this sort of thing, I mean when you try to make sure they understand and still send a fake it gets a bit wearing  |
|
|
|
Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 16, 2015 11:47:20 GMT
That's the beauty of the SBG review system. Any ebay production will normally run the gauntlet of the SBG reviews, and will gain a reputation for either consistent excellence (as in the case of Huawei), good value for money (as in the case of Hanbon/St-Nihonto), or inconsistency at best (Ryansword). The less known ones are harder to pin down, but so long as people care enough, their rep will eventually be established by hands-on reviews. Anyone can put up a forge and fudge their ratings. I've found ebay's rating to be extremely unreliable, as most customers won't know better - they think that the sword is already good enough - and will give high ratings. It's really the methodical analysis of SBG (and some other similar sites) which matters in the long run. We should also give kudos to swordmaker688/Hanbon, because he will do Sanmai blades and they are real, no they are not cheap either, but great for the price.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 12:42:03 GMT
Pity and strange that swordmaker688 doesnt deliver to Germany...:-(...at least Huawei does...
|
|
|
|
Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jul 16, 2015 13:01:07 GMT
Ive heard good things about Huawei
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 1:03:34 GMT
May I ask does anyone know why the folded steel for the jacket in the first place on the real sanmai blades? I thought sanmai was for structural purposes? Is it that it just makes the real ones, like the knife, stand out more? But for a sword, if you're going to do a lamination, isn't it less work and more benefit to throw some plain-jane 9260 around some T10, for example? Digs I feel your pain in the search. here I'd love a real sanmai blade, but especially after these, the ubiquitous folded steel seems downright shady, even for the real ones. Sorry you got burnt again:( Due Diligence indeed, thanks for the continued effort. Hard issue because there are real sanmai out there, so people will think "mine is real therefore all are real" or "mine is fake therefore all are fake". would be great if you could buy one with confidence:/ oh and what's this I hear about huawei? jk jk, poking fun at the "fav ebay seller" phenomenon |
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 17, 2015 1:21:24 GMT
If using bloomery steel/iron (e.g., tamahagane), you fold to get rid of slag, and to make the steel/iron more homogeneous. So bloomery steel/iron sanmai/sanmei will have folded centre and folded sides. If using de-carburised cast iron (Chinese practice from hid-Han, and also modern steels), then you don't need to fold. But one could still do folded sides for decorative purposes. Common enough on traditionally made Chinese swords (though unfolded sides were also done), and other Asian sanmei blades. (Monosteel edge and decorative folded body is also seen in Chinese and Philippine blades.)
At least some, if not most, really cheap sanmei blades are mostly just cosmetic. Heat treated on the soft side, so no advantage is had from the potentially harder centre piece. If you want to push it to the limit, you use iron sides, steel centre - quench and don't bother tempering. Done on some kitchen knives (and we also see sanmei kitchen knives where the sides are stainless for corrosion resistance).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 2:52:06 GMT
How are we supposed to even believe the steel type being advertised? If one feature is being falsified what's to stop the vendor, whomever it may be, from lying about another? You can't really, all Chinese T10 steel is not the T10 steel you get in the US, it's closer to the US made W1 steel for a start :) |
|
|
|
Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 17, 2015 6:07:46 GMT
How are we supposed to even believe the steel type being advertised? If one feature is being falsified what's to stop the vendor, whomever it may be, from lying about another? You can't really, all Chinese T10 steel is not the T10 steel you get in the US, it's closer to the US made W1 steel for a start The standard T10 includes Tungsten + 1% carbon (plus others) - Chinese T10 does not include ANY Tungsten, - Chinese T10 is a spring steel alloy C = 1% Si = .32% Mn= .36 P = .031 S = .029 Tungsten Symbol: W Melting point: 3,422 °C Atomic number: 74 Boiling point: 5,555 °C |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 6:27:20 GMT
So, Chinese t10 is never regular T10, and sanmai is not always sanmai...
In general, it looks like the cheaper forges give you good value for the sub-$300 swords, but when you start looking for fancier laminations and better steels, it's a good idea to look to the larger Chinese forges for custom or production blades, though it appears there are some exceptions. This has been a very informative thread!
|
|
Greg E
Member
little bit of this... and a whole lot of that
Posts: 1,353 
|
Post by Greg E on Jul 17, 2015 12:27:37 GMT
Who makes real sanmai and kobus and reverse kobus? That is a question this thread haa led me to ask.
|
|
|
|
Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Jul 17, 2015 12:32:52 GMT
Who makes real sanmai and kobus and reverse kobus? That is a question this thread haa led me to ask. Ronin Katana Elite with Soshu Kitae lamination. Deferentially hardened tri-steel blade (1045/1060/1095). I have given up with ebay sellers. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 22:43:15 GMT
I have a folded steel dao that may or may not be from ryanswords (ebay seller lifushiangdian [sp?] ) Not sure if they're the same forge or not, but it sure looks like the RS version, right down to the style of hamon.
Either way it was sold to me as 1060/1095 folded steel, 1024 layers and DH
and now I'm wondering just for kicks if I could purpsosely fake a sanmai-look to match the ebay pics we see of the katanas with the fake lams. Gonna give it a try, see if I can 'fool' you guys with how it looks. A project for the next rainy day. would be interesting if I could, by some combination of etching and polishing, tho would be prolly impossible to fake the spine
|
|
|
|
Post by jrock on Jul 18, 2015 20:28:29 GMT
I was contemplating about getting a RS. After reading and seeing all the bad press about them im not giving them a second thought. If you cant trust the vendor you cant trust the product. End of story.
Now what makes me wonder about these ebay vendors is that they seem to have no real clue about the products they sell. They just seem to get contracts to sell and they use whatever terminology they can to sell product. Its like saying a dodge is the same as a Mercedes just because the same company makes both at different factories.
The absolute plethora of blades coming out of china these days the value is almost none existent. Some makers however are the exeption because they take care and pride into making something thats worth investing in. RS is not one of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by jrock on Jul 18, 2015 22:07:14 GMT
I have a folded blade from musashi i got from trueswords. Its description on their website is exactly what i got. No gimmicks or lies about manufactor. I couldnt be happier with it considering the price i paid mainly because i knew exactly what i was getting. Folded blades shouldnt be expensive anymore because theyre made by the buttloads in china know. Getting one thats made, tempered, and fitted well all depends on the amount of pride and thought thats put into it. If someones out there just looking to make a few bucks or a hundred and dont care about the product or more importantly the customer has no place on my table.
I personally am glad that respected ppl take the time to call these "frauds" out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cottontail Customs on Jul 18, 2015 22:43:43 GMT
If you cant trust the vendor you cant trust the product. End of story. I don't agree with this altogether. When buying from a seller such as Kult of Athena, I completely trust the vendor even if I might not totally trust the product. When purchasing from an ebay seller, the same applies if I've had good cs and trust the seller will take care of any issues, but the products can still be somewhat of a crap shoot. I've purchased from Huawei many times and have been very happy so far but I won't go so far as to say all their products will be great all of the time. I think this should apply all across the board when buying production swords and wouldn't trust a seller saying anything different or making guarantees other than for returns and cs. -Josh |
|
