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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 23:58:19 GMT
Hello, everyone,
I'm kinda new here, so forgive me if I'm covering ground that already been tread upon, or anything like that.
Like a lot of you, I've been fascinated with the Atlantean sword ever since I first saw Conan the Barbarian, and wanted to have it soooo much!! Well, now, 25 years later, we can finally get them. And we even have a choice between Albion, Museum Replicas, Marto, and the cheap Chinese versions, as well.
Because they were so cheap, I bought one of the cheap versions, and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed. Now rat tail tangs, and plastic handles and crooked fullers aside, with regard ONLY to the brass hilt and pommel, how much different are they really? I ask because In looking at the various images I've seen online of the Albion and Marto versions, they dont appear any better than the one in my hand, and in some cases, they seem lesser quality, even! I see crooked lines and small pits and holes and such, and I'm really having a hard time seeing or believing the brass furniture on the Albions or Martos is at all worth the substantially bigger cost.
Any feedback you guys have is greatly appreciated.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Dec 9, 2011 0:11:27 GMT
The main difference is the Albion one is built as a real sword... meaning it is solid, tempered, and meant to sustain actual USE. If you use your cheep knock off Atlantean sword for cutting you will quickly... and perhaps painfully... learn the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2011 0:29:41 GMT
"Please note: Film Swords recreations are NOT intended for use as a weapon. Any such use voids all warranties and no liability of any kind for such use can be assumed by Film Swords, LLC or its licensors." filmswords.com/index.html |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Dec 9, 2011 0:34:40 GMT
As Sean said, the Albion is a weapon (albeit a damn heavy one) while your knock off would like explode into cosmic dust if you looked at it wrong, maiming everyone in its blast radius. Here's the big difference with regards to fittings: the knock off is cheap brass quickly cast into shape, probably etched by a machine, and then slapped on a slab of 440 stainless. Albion's Atlantean was cast using the original molds under the direction of the late Jody Samson (aka, the dude who made the original prop and a legendary sword maker), with a blade of tempered carbon steel and a hefty tang. The fittings are solid bronze (not brass) while the runes are, I believe, hand engraved.
You're basically comparing a Da Vinci with a 3rd grader's doodles for art class.
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Post by mcapanelli on Dec 9, 2011 0:39:07 GMT
And in response to that............
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Post by mcapanelli on Dec 9, 2011 0:45:56 GMT
What your seeing on the cheap sword is a result o inferior material (die cast brass plated metal, pot metal, and so forth) and on the Marto it's cast brass, which will have some imperfections (don't quote me on this though. It's an educated guess on my part), and lastly on the albion your seeing casting marks from "lost wax" casting of the hilt parts. They are made of real bronze, not plated pot metal. There's also a tremendous difference in the man hours involved to assemble each sword. And don't let anyone give you that "CNC is not forged" crap either. Stock removal and grinding are no walk in the park and make for the larger portion of the labor involved in ANY sword. That type of labor is reflected in the price.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Dec 9, 2011 1:41:50 GMT
I hate that they use that disclaimer... but its just CYA legal crap they have to use... they still build the filmswords sword to the same level of functionality as their other lines.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2011 4:03:58 GMT
While I appreciate your input, no ones really answered my question. Or perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I'm not concerned with swinging it, or how well it holds up, in that regard. I'm also not concerned with the blade, what kind of steel it is, how well its made, or how long it took to make it.
My only concern is the fittings; specifically how accurate they are to the film version, and how well constructed they are. I see pits and inconsistencies in the photos I've seen of the Albion Atlantean, whereas the cheap chinese version I have has none of that. (on the other hand, mine has slightly visible join lines from the casting, but as cheap as it was, I can't complain) Frankly, I'm starting to wonder if the more expensive versions are even worth the price?
Has anyone made a side by side comparison? I'd love to see pics of that!
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Dec 9, 2011 4:31:18 GMT
Are you sure you're on the forum you think you're on?  All the reasons you dismissed are the reasons WHY the expensive versions are worth the price they charge. :roll: It's true that the Albion Conan swords don't have perfectly smooth casting (check out Jeffrey Robinson's Conan swords for the best in that department), but they are taken from the ORIGINAL molds used in the film, and it's much easier to get a clean cast on a cheap zinc-based pot metal (like your chinese-made sword) than on a solid and durable metal like bronze. I'd take the small imperfections on the bronze casts any day over a replica that doesn't even grind away the join lines. |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Dec 9, 2011 4:37:33 GMT
Thank god you showed up, Luna; I couldn't think of a way to answer this diplomatically.
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Dec 9, 2011 4:39:38 GMT
Actually, there *is* a photo of the fittings comparing a Jody Sampson/Albion, versus a Marto (or was it a Windlass?), versus a Chinese knock-off. It's somewhere around here in the forum, on one of the Conan sword threads, like this one. Off to go look for it.  (Edit: Found the post): viewtopic.php?f=43&t=5856&hilit=Windlass+Atlantean&start=40#p73362 --Note the differences in materials, detail, and quality among each Father's Sword replica: 'wallhanger' (aka Chinese knock-off), Marto, Windlass, and Albion. So far, though, I haven't seen any side-by-side pics of Atlanteans done this way. --Edward P.S. As you've noticed, our members are also severely interested in functionality. A member did a review of a Windlass Atlantean that shows, unfortunately, that it was put together rather poorly. The forum had hopes that the sword would be both pretty *and* functional . . . and the results said otherwise. |
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Dec 9, 2011 5:10:35 GMT
The blades, and the runes etched on the blade, are milled in a CNC machine --this is shown on the 1982 "Conan The Barbarian" Bluray. Granted, these come from Jody's Samson's workshop in New Glarus, WI, hence they have the authenticity of coming from *the* workshop that created the movie blades.
Or at least, they used to. Someone correct me on this? I don't know if Filmswords/Albion continues to make the Atlantean, Father's, Valeria's, and Subotai's blades anymore.
--Edward
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Post by mcapanelli on Dec 9, 2011 5:40:12 GMT
well if your only concern is the fittings then Albion wins again because the man who designed the Albion version IS the man that designed and made the movie swords, fittings and all. The one and only Jody Sampson.
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Post by mcapanelli on Dec 9, 2011 5:42:22 GMT
They have the rights back and are producing the Conan swords off of Jody's original castings again.
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Dec 9, 2011 5:47:45 GMT
This makes me a happy, happy man . Time to save up the $ to buy one. --Edward |
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Dec 9, 2011 6:05:35 GMT
Yeh... I've little to add that has not been said.
If you don't care how well the over all sword is made... it its tempered and made from a high carbon steel, if its designed to be solid and functional... if all you care about is something that looks like the sword in the movie... as long as you don't swing it like the sword in the movie... then the Albion and other custom options WOULD be a huge rip off and waste of money for you.
On this forum, we are dedicated to finding affordable, FUNCTIONAL swords... swords that can actually be used safely to do what swords were meant to do... cut things. If your interest is not in that... then we can not help you much.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2011 13:54:23 GMT
Well, I was hoping I was on a forum that would have knowledge and be happy to pass that knowledge on--not tell me what i already know. Im not asking about blade quality because I already know that info. Im not asking about swinging it around, because I already know that info too. It just the furniture I don't know about.
I appreciate your addressing the issue. Do we (the collective "we") know that the cheap versions are just zinc based pot metal?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2011 14:02:14 GMT
Hello, Edward. Thanks for your input. I did in fact see that photo (I did search before asking) and whereas it does show the stylistic differences between the different swords, I cant tell by those photos how the quality itself differs. Or materials ffor that matter. Looking at the pommels, for example, all but Albions profile is identical; Albions is not as smooth/straight. I'll need to look at the sword in the movie to determine which is actually more accurate to the screen version.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2011 14:25:24 GMT
With all due respect to those of you who are fans of these swords as much as I am, The swords weren't made in WI, they were made(assembled) in Jody's shop in Burbank, 20 years before there was even an Albion Swords. And he didn't design the swords--Ron Cobb did. Nor did he cast the furniture. Jody's job was to grind, fit, make the blades and assemble the swords. ( He never took credit for designing them.) I was also able to handle one of the broken Fibreglass Fathers swords before he sold it to a friend of mine, many years ago (He beat me to it by hours, dammit!)
I was good friends with Jody, back when he shared a shop with Alex Collins, well before he shared a shop with Tony Swatton or Rosa Kuziak, and before he relocated to WI to work for Albion.
I can also tell you that Jody told me there were some changes from the film version to the Albion version, though offhand I don't recall what they were, my gut tells me they were more pragmatic and not aesthetic changes, AND they had to redo the molds, as well. (20 year old molds didn't hold up well)
I haven't been able to literally sit down and compare side by side the different versions, nor have I seen good close up photos of the different versions, side by side. I haven't had the opportunity to see in person and Albion or a Marto, but I thought as much interest as I saw on this site for the Conan swords, I thought there might be a few of you who have/handled the different versions and could offer your feedback on my original question.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Dec 9, 2011 15:56:31 GMT
Yes the fittings of the cheap versions are very different from the Albion versions. As far as I have seen at this time, ONLY Albion has ever used the version based directly on the film swords. Even Marto didn't use the good version. Cheap wallhanger of unknown make.  Marto version.  Albion version.  Yes the Albion has some small casting flaws, it also has a tremendiously greater amount of detail. They are also real bronze, not die cast metal.There are some closer pics of the Windlass Atlantean around here on the site. Thanks for the plug Luna  In Albions defense when compared to the ones I made, Albion's are still a production sword and it likely wouldn't be cost effective for them to spend all the time that would be required to make sculptural quality castings, especially after paying the licensing fees. On a somewhat related note in case anyone was wanting one (turned down several requests already), I don't make them for sale since Albion has the rights again. What I was showing on the pics that Edward linked to on another thread was how the cheap wallhanger, the Matro, and the Windlass, all looked very much like each other and not like the Albion/original. Here are the cheap fathers parts.    Here is a pic of the Albion fathers.  To me, the cheap parts bear only a passing resemblance to the original and the Albion. Some may find this resemblance to be "close enough". If you know what the sword is supposed to look like, it's probably not going to be close enough. To me, the cheap parts look awful and just cheap. Opinions vary. I've seen people with big horrible $200 brass sculptures in their yards that they paid $4000 for because they didn't know the difference between that and the real thing. Anyone with some familiarity with sculpture would know, but that isn't everyone. The same is true for swords or anything else. If what you want is this-  -but you don't care about actual performance or handling and just want sopmething that basically looks like it, you might be happy with this-  I'm sure plenty of people could look at those pictures and say, "what, I don't see the difference?" But a real car guy is going to say, "ugh, I wouldn't even park the vehicle in that second pic in front of my house as an April fools joke." So yes, there is a difference in quality and appearance. Whether or not that appearance is "close enough" is entirely subjective. In my personal opinion, the non-Albion versions are like a cartoon of the real thing. They have a clear resemblance but don't even capture the feel of the original. |
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(Edit: Found the post): 
In Albions defense when compared to the ones I made, Albion's are still a production sword and it likely wouldn't be cost effective for them to spend all the time that would be required to make sculptural quality castings, especially after paying the licensing fees. On a somewhat related note in case anyone was wanting one (turned down several requests already), I don't make them for sale since Albion has the rights again.
