Perception of ATrim swords

this is true, and we don't deny it. the point here is one must be careful how things are changed and if Gus went around changing things in a reactionary fashion it wouldn't take long before the swords he was making would no longer stand up to the standard he has set for his products. it is indeed a good time to be a consumer and we intend to make it a better time to be a consumer by doing our part in offering excellent quality swords that will continue to improve.

I firmly believe the golden age for ATrims is yet to come. more on this story as it develops.

It's been, like, over a year now. Isn't it about time we sweep that under the ru- ...bad choice of words.... :?

I've been lurking in this thread for a while and wasn't going to post anything, BUT if you are asking for feedback about the perception of the product you are selling; it is counterproductive in the extreme to get into an argument with someone about their perception. It's THEIR perception and its what YOU were asking to hear about. If you didn't want the feedback, you shouldn't have asked.

Try to take it constructively and learn from it. Arguing with someone over their opinion doesn't help anyone.

Not trying to stir things up, but I hate it when people ask for opinions and then seem to get upset when they hear them.

Now as far as feedback, I may be an oddity but if I'm going to pay $400 or so for a sword, I'm more likely to go ahead and pay double or triple that if necessary to get exactly what I want. That just happens to be my threshold price where I can't justify spending that much unless it has all the bells and whistles I want. Generally, I can always find a very good sword that meets my base requirements at around the $300-350 price point if i am patient and look around on the various classifieds.

ok guys this thread is starting to get a bit out of hand and tempers are flaring.

I wanted to address the idea that things were slapped together and I wanted to see if the impression of being slapped together was something that was more prevelant or maybe just a few people.

I now know that no-one really sees the swords as actually being slapped together but there is a small number of people who feel that they look like they were even though they know they weren't.

there's no need to argue about this opinions belong to their people.

we have received some valuable feedback from this thread and I apreciate the honesty and candor expressed here.

it seems to me that there is not being any real progress made any more so I'm going to make a statement and then a request.

statement: as I have said there is no problem that exists with our swords that Gus is not aware of even before the sword hits the shelves of TTA. there's no news flash here. we have been able with this thread to measure the amount of concern over certain features and we will take that concern into account. Mercenary swords will continue to be made and sold at the best price we can offer. as we build momentum and money we will embark on projects that will improve our offerings so there will be options for our customers to upgrade from the Mercenary level. we already are offering improved polishes and even though it isn't on our web site yet we can do permanent assembly. we aren't stopping there there's more to come. there's also new designs in the works and Gus recent designs have been far and away the best swords he's ever made.

Request: if you have something new to add here, if there is something about our swords you are concerned about, would like to see, believe to be true, etc. and it has not already been discussed please feel free to ask. I will not bite your head off for it no matter how crazy it might be. I might tell you that you are very much mistaken and I would like to inform you what the truth actually is, but I promise I will not be mean or disrespectful or anything nasty like that. we have beaten a few horses to death here and I think it is time they were buried.

thank you all for your input it is valued and valid.

This is where I totally agree with you. we'll get there. we will. not sure when but we will.

gotta realize there's a lot of growing going on here half of our business is brand new rookies and the other half is a seasoned vetran who's taken a beating and is working through the re-adjustment to climb back to the top. and somehow these rookies and the old vet have to find a way to work in harmony. don't worry, we got a good handle on it, I'm just saying there's still plenty of road before us.

Ding ding ding. You got it. This is absolutely 100% accurate.

No business controls their brand or image. A business can only hope to influence it. The debate and argument with customers and their perception of the products is not only counterproductive, it has the potential to cast a negative shadow onto the products themselves. I've been around for a long time, and I'll say that it's even got me a bit concerned.

Truth be told, the lack of accountability by the vendor as to how this topic has gone is fairly offensive to me.



That's a big pet peeve of mine, too. It seems very irrational.



It's a good thing having choices, huh?

The diversity of offerings that Angus Trim swords have provided has added quite a bit to the market landscape. We have options that range from bare-bones "performance" (I hate that term) offerings, to customized "aesthetically-pleasing" (I really hate this term) offerings, to factory-made swords based on Gus's designs, to ATrim blades mounted on fully-custom hilts, etc. etc. Even within Gus's carved-out niche, he's got quite a lot of touch-points to the industry as a whole.

Now if he could just align himself with an effective marketing and distribution side of the house, he'd be solid.

My impression of Angus Trim swords? Glad you asked.

I associate Angus Trim with Western European medieval swords, cut from high quality steel, magnificently heat treated, with blades that are designed with attention to details of distal taper, profile taper, and blade geometry. My perception is that the finish will be slightly coarse, and that the fittings are designed far more for proper weight than for aesthetics. They are well made and well fitted, but fairly plain and there is no great variety in the pommels or guards. Similarly, to my untrained eye the grips seem to be fairly uniform throughout the range, and I believe I have read that Gus regards grips (both the wood and the leather) as very secondary to his main interest.

Those, then, are my impressions. Now the color commentary! None of the critiques I advanced earlier sour me on Gus Trim swords. If swords can be associated with a personality, Angus Trim swords seem to me to be the kind that a "cagey veteran" would choose, maybe not a knight but a man-at-arms, the kind who today would be a senior NCO. Nothing flashy, all business.

If wishes were horses, and beggars did ride, what would I like to see from T&TA and Gus Trim swords?

Perhaps simplest, I'd like to see the swords offered either without grips or, as Mike Harris indicated above, with only an unshaped wood block for a grip. I'm a firm believer that "doing for yourself" is a positive in and of itself, and I bet most people who buy an Atrim could put together a nice grip, suited to their tastes. (If I can do it, I figure anyone can.)

More problematic, I'd like to see a greater variety of fittings offered. Based on this thread, my perception is that Gus Trim isn't especially interested in doing this himself. Perhaps a collaboration with a cutler could be arranged? I know that there are people here on the forum who have the eye and the metal working skills to produce pommels and guards, and so long as the weights were correct I don't think there'd be a problem. (Of course, I could be overlooking subtleties.) Purely as an example, I know John Graybeard is investigating producing properly weighted pommels and guards of brass for the H/T line. Whether at that level, or a collaboration with Sonny Suttles along the lines of the Chimera swords, either could be a solution.

Further, I'd like to see bare blades offered. Some of my favorite modern swords of all time have been collaborations between Angus Trim and custom vendors like Phoenix Metal Creations and E. B. Erickson, simply gorgeous compound hilts fitted with simply fabulous Atrim blades. I fitted a Valiant AT303 blade to a Hanwei compound hilt and was tickled pink with the results. If it was possible to buy, say, an AT backsword blade (with a note such as "hilt should weigh 17 ounces total, 7 ounces of guard and ten ounces of pommel"), I'd be all over it.

Finally, I'd really like to see a scabbard/sheath option.

In recapitulation, then. I regard Angus Trim swords as well designed and well made from quality materials, albeit fairly plain. I have tremendous respect for the Atrim swords, although I only own one (and it's an older one). I'm tremendously excited by T&TA, and hope, like the old song says, the future's so bright we gotta wear shades.

I should preface this by saying that I do not actually own any ATrims. My impression based on what I've seen of ATrims is as follows:

They are everything you want in a sword... performance wise. They handle great, cut well, and are as tough as you could hope for. But they do lack a certain variety and visual appeal. There are a few exceptions - the XIIa.4 looks beautiful to me and the recent multi-fullered versions are attractive in their own way, but majority of classic ATrim swords to my eyes just don't look very appealing or particularly historical.

I don't know if it's feasible, but ideally what I would like to see is something similar to what Christian Fletcher had with his "build a sword" type thing - mostly because I kind of get lost in various sword ID#s and whatnot and often times I see blades that I like but fittings that I don't and short of sending it to the CSS or something or slaving over it myself I don't have much option. That way I could use an ATrim blade combined with my choice of fittings to give it the look that I like. Yes, I know that certain fittings might not be a perfect fit for certain blades due to weight, and balance issues from a performance standpoint but that is something I'd be willing to live with - maybe you could include Gus' recommendations based on the blade selected as in "You've selected a heavy XIIa blade, Gus recommends a style 1 cross, ______ handle and a type J pommel". You could even have your "munitions, mercenary, tried and true" production grades each with a different cost associated with them... and then offer the final product threaded or peened.

I have wanted an Atrim Sword for about 5 years now, I have read countless reviews of how good they are and yet I have only recently just bought one, because to me they have always been lacking something visually. I want a sword to be more than just a great blade it has to appeal to me on all levels and that includes how it looks. Recently Tried and True have been giving A Trims a lot of exposure here at SBG so with my long time interest I decide to buy one. Now with all respect to Gus as a Swordmaker, the Sword I bought was a second hand Rehilted Christian Fletcher Blade. For the price I could have bought a New one, but I bought the sword that appealed to me the most overall even though it was more expensive.
I hope Gus along with Tried and True can continue making these improvements to what most agree are exception blades, hopefully next time I buy an Atrim Sword it will be from the man who made it.