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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 17:18:35 GMT
Frankly, if I had to fight someone in the 10th century, with witch hunts in full swing, and I had magical powers, I'd still use the sword. Plus, I think it'd have to be a very sturdy design since, according to lore, it's made of goblin-forged silver. I have no idea what kind of temper or edge retention properties silver would have if made into a blade, but I'm thinking not that great. Something as thin as that would probably shatter (or at least bend beyond repair) the first time it was used.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 12, 2011 17:22:13 GMT
When you throw in the silver bit... well, again, I throw the magic bit out there. You could use magic to forge a blade out of water or Jello, and it'd be as good as a steel sword.
Magic's an interesting subject in how it changes the dynamics of various situations... this is just one example. Unfortunately, it makes things frustratingly unquantifiable-- half the time the only explanation you have is "it does this cause it's magic!". Satisfying? Not really, but it's what we get.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 17:46:10 GMT
True enough. Which is why I don't like using magic in my books unless it has some serious downfalls.
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 17:53:55 GMT
Godric didn't make it, though - as Vincent pointed out, it was goblin-made. Edge retention would be no problem, even with the sword being made out of silver, since being made by goblins it's basically indestructible along with other magical properties. You'll never even need to sharpen it, nor would you be able to.  Anyway, here's a quick draft of the basic design without any bling. It's based on a number of swords photographed by Istvan Racz, mainly plate XVI from Viikinkien perintö.  A type XI blade 35 inches long, 41.3 inches overall. The hilt has a total of eight hollows for things like suitably cut rubies to be set in. Note that the pommel is not perfectly round, but slightly squashed on the grip side. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 17:58:20 GMT
Eh, magic becomes a do-anything-any-way-you-want card only if you're lazy about it and don't respect your own internal consistency. Not only do most magic systems have their own laws about how the whole thing works, but far more fundamentally, the actual things you do with magic have just as much impact on a story as things done by any other means; if they don't, why the hell are you wasting my time telling me about it? |
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 12, 2011 18:02:11 GMT
Well, that's a pretty good point right there. Too many authors are just of the whole 'magic can do whatever' school of thought. That's something that impressed me with Harry Potter, the author recognized that magic does have limitations, the greatest one being that the magical community comes to depend upon it so much that without it they're lost.
Literary criticism aside, have you ever considered sketching out a few Wheel of Time swords or similar?
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 18:23:56 GMT
Pretty much. I've got a novel in the works that somewhat subscribes to the "magic can do whatever" school of thought; it's also an every day thing that anyone can learn if taught, but it has several nasty downsides that would prevent one from becoming dependent on it (I won't say what, though). There are also a little invention in it I call spellstones, which is essentially magic encapsulated in crystals that can allow the common man with no training to use it, but they're single use only and quite expensive (enough so that they can be used in place of currency if you don't have conventional coin). What the magic can do is really only limited by your imagination, but you have to write out a working formula that describes exactly what you want to do (think arcane circles or transmutation circles from FMA) and you have to memorize it precisely down to the most minute detail so you can call it up from your memory in an instant. Suddenly, the fact that it can do anything ain't so impressive now, is it?
As to the blade, do your talents know no bounds, MOK? I could definitely see that being the Sword of Gryffindor. It looks like a great cutter, easily defeating leather armor, while having a more acute point to combat chain. It would also look very distinguished with the rubies inserted on the guard and pommel.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 12, 2011 18:30:05 GMT
MOK, by the way, did you ever say what program you use to draw these? Does it happen to be freely obtainable? I've been thinking about getting back into digital drawing for a little while... thanks!
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 18:30:33 GMT
The thought crossed my mind earlier, the heron mark sword being apparently fairly iconic these days, but...
a) I don't like the books. They just drag on and on and on and on with inane boys-vs-girls squabbling (it's worse than in the Belgariad, for crying out loud!) and irrelevant detail upon irrelevant detail - I seriously don't care how the toggles on somebody's coat in this scene are different from the one he was was wearing earlier, just get on with what he's doing already, damnit! I've never seen so many words used to describe nothing much happening at such length.
b) I wouldn't even know where to begin, since the only defining thing these swords have in common is the heron mark upon the blade - other than that, they could be like anything. I think Tam's sword is the only one described in any detail. (Where's all that gratuitous cosmetic detail now when I actually need it?! Gods darn you to heck, Jordan, you're really tempting me to speak ill of the dead, here! As if your Conan pastiches weren't bad enough...)
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 18:34:36 GMT
Heh, thanks. I'd better be good, I do this for a living. Or I used to... haven't had much work lately. Oh well, more time for doodling swords! Oh yeah, it'd have to be a good cutter - whenever it's around they're always decapitating one thing or another with it.  Inkscape! It is indeed freeware, and almost as good as Illustrator (not that I wouldn't still give my left pinkie for the latest CS release, if anyone would sell it for that price). |
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 12, 2011 18:53:43 GMT
I actually happened to like those Conan books... Jordan wasn't a *bad* author-- his problem is, he didn't have an editor. Or rather, his editor was his wife... who basically did *nothing* to change what he'd written other than spell checking and what not. What he really needed was someone objective to put the smackdown on his extended descriptions, pointless discourse, and endless female-superiority complexes. It's rather telling, I think, that the latest two Wheel of Time books, written by Brandon Sanderson, have been better received than Jordan's later books were.
As for the swords, that's a good point-- he really doesn't describe them in much depth. The one used on map illustrations in the books reminds me of a curved type XVIII, though. Various cultures throughout the book are described-- perhaps you could try doing, say, an interpretation of a curved saber as made by renaissance-era Spanish smiths (Tear, I believe)? Or even buck the trend of curved swords and try doing a fancy straight blade with Chinese-style fittings, or what have you... just glom the little heron mark on there and you're good :wink:
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 19:01:57 GMT
True enough. Stabbing basilisks, destroying jewelry, decapitating snakes. They should have a new saying: It's all fun and games 'til someone decapitates a snake... Then it's EPIC! Now if only I could use Inkscape half as well as you... As to Illustrator, I could potentially find it for free for you. jEFF: Stop it~ I just read the first one awhile back and am looking forward to getting others, but I'm dreading the later books. Although, speaking of fantasy swords rarely described, we could always give him the challenge of sketching up some of the ShardBlades from Sanderson's Way of Kings or the Koloss swords from his Mistborn trilogy. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 20:40:14 GMT
OK, here's the sword all blinged up, with the rubies and some crossed risers to juice up the grip. If you look closely, you might be able to make out Godric's name running down the first third of the fuller (in Copperplate Gothic because that was the closest font I had to something that might have been inlaid centuries ago - time to go raiding the web for some new typefaces, again).  |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 20:53:57 GMT
You, sir, are wrong. Entitled to your opinion, naturally, but nevertheless awfully, terribly, dead wrong.  AMEN. He needed a good editor more desperately than Stephen King - and that's saying a lot. We'll see. If I happen to get an inspiration, I'll put something together... but don't hold your breath. I've been trying very hard to forget all the time I wasted with those books. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 20:54:21 GMT
Why not. It always worked for Conan. Legally? 'Cos otherwise I'll have to report you to my beloved corporate overlords. All hail Adobe! (Plus I gotta do actual work with it, too, and using two almost identical applications at the same time is an incredible pain in the ass.) Gah, that'd mean I'd have to read those first... how are they? |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 21:10:29 GMT
Oooh! Now that is a nice sword. I normally hate bejeweled swords since they tend to look gaudy and useless (the only reason to encrust your sword's hilt in gold is because you're so obscenely rich, you can use a weapon as decoration), but I must say, this pulls it off nicely. I especially like the x-risers and studs on the grip. They draw a bit of attention away from the rubies, so the sword as a whole seems like an art piece (as much as a weapon), rather than just focusing it on the guard and pommel. You should really make a tutorial or something if you can so us art-impaired folks can do stuff like this, too. By the way, bit off topic, but that Asian Lakonia and Migration Bowie you posted in your design thread; would you mind if I added those to the list of customs I want? Legally? Not exactly... *Shifty eyes* Get away! :lol: Well, I'm a hard person to please when it comes to fantasy books (I've got a bookcase almost full of books, but only 15 different authors) and Sanderson's books are my favorite. He's put enough creativity and imagination into 6 books than Stephen King's put into his whole career. He also came up with two entirely unique systems of magic for both Mistborn and Warbreaker that you never would have dreamed of. He's also got this way to make a strong female character without making her entire personality revolve around "I am woman, here me roar!" He can also make them utterly helpless while seeming strong, never quite taking that step towards damsel in distress that some use. If you enjoy fantasy that's complex, somewhat unpredictable, and the character's predicament somewhat hopeless at times, you'll enjoy his books. But that said, I was making a joke about it since there's no reason to really redesign them; Koloss swords are monstrous pieces of steel 8-9ft+ long since they're wielded by inhuman monsters that can get up to 20ft tall with superhuman strength. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 21:46:56 GMT
I dunno, there probably already are a metric ton of good tutorials somewhere on the web. I'll do some digging, see if I can't find some that would be helpful. Sure, go right ahead. But I will insist on lots of high quality photos! Hey, that's a whole lot of imagination! (To clarify on my earlier statement, I love Stephen King, I really do; it's just that he himself never fails to mention, at the slightest opportunity, how badly he needs a good editor who's not afraid to tell a bestselling celebrity to stop rambling and get to the damn point. And he's right. ) Oh, well, those should be easy to design, then, without the limitations of puny human physique. |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 21:56:06 GMT
Thanks! I'd love to get my designs off of graph paper and onto decent renders. But of course. That's no less than I ask of anyone who wants to use one of my non-novel designs (my novel designs are for me only... At least until I have my own; then others can have them ). Well, I could be exaggerating, but considering how many books King has written, he must have thousands of mice with typewriters clacking away in his head 24/7. :lol: Like I said, no real reason to redesign them as this is the official design of the koloss sword (as well as Vin, the protagonist of Mistborn; for reference, she's a puny 5ft teenage girl):  |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 22:17:59 GMT
And she's not even Japanese? I'm impressed!
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 22:24:15 GMT
It comes from the system of magic he developed for the story, but I won't go ruining it for ya. :lol:
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