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Post by MOK on Mar 30, 2011 13:22:59 GMT
I had time to waste yesterday and killed some of it by finally drawing He-Man a proper sword. Of course I posted it in my thread in the Members' Designs forum. But today I thought, hey, why not make this a thing? So this thread is for us all to dream up and present our interpretations of more or less classic fictional swords. The Master Sword, the Buster Sword, the Sword of Omens, Sting, whatever - think you could do better than it's been done before? Then draw it and post it! For my opening entry, see below for a copy of my post from yesterday. I'm biased, of course, but I think at least my re-conception looks like something that might actually have come from a castle shaped like a gigantic skull. --- By the power of Grayskull, I HAVE THE POWER! ...to redesign a classic cartoon sword.  Yeah, I was a big fan of Masters of the Universe as a kid. One thing that always bugged me, though, was the Power Sword. It just looked so blatantly like a toy, and an ugly one to boot, that I could never take the damn thing seriously, even way back when I didn't know the first thing about real swords. So since I've been idle and bored all day today, here's how I'd do it. Now, He-Man did have a shield (and an ax), but we almost never saw him using it in the comics or the cartoon, so the sword should be fit for use on its own: to this end, we'll make it somewhat bigger, a longsword suitable for one or two hands as the situation demands. The new Power Sword is 43 inches overall, including 28 inches of cutting edge and a 7-inch grip, with 6 inches of guard in between. The blade is of a flattened diamond cross-section with slightly convex bevels, quite broad and heavy, a good match for "the most powerful man in the Universe".   While still clearly not meant for intense blade-on-blade winding action, the redone guard could actually have at least some use in parrying due to its protruding ends. I've cut the round bits down to two, made them more sharply defined and decorated them with concentric circles in silver inlay to add just a little bit of flair. The slightly waisted grip is oval in cross-section, wrapped with leather, and has three metal spacers instead of raisers, one at each end and a third in the middle. The squashed disk pommel has somewhat beveled edges, making for an octagonal cross-section, and bears an inlaid copy of the insignia on He-Man's... uh... breastplate sort of thingy. Now... is it just me, or does it look like a mix of Ancient Mediterranean, Celtic and Medieval elements to you guys, too? |
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Mar 30, 2011 18:47:24 GMT
this could turn out to be a great thread,i cant take part due to ridiculously bad drawing/pc skills ,nice work though mok,a definate improvement on the original he man sword  |
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Post by MOK on Mar 30, 2011 20:23:26 GMT
Ah hell, talking with Vincent over in my design thread got me thinking and, well...  Here's the Buster Sword remade.  Overall length 64.3 inches, with a 40-inch blade and 18.3-inch grip. This is kinda more of an extremely short and heavy polearm than a normal sword. Two materia slots with re-inforcing langets around the cutouts to support the blade. The blade is 5 inches wide with no profile taper, but...  ...as the above schematic shows, plenty of distal taper, especially in the thick spine which starts out 0.6 inches thick at the shoulders and thins down to half of that right before the point section; aside from the spine, the blade is fairly thin, the central ridge starting out 0.2 inches thick at the shoulders and growing slightly thinner until the point. The blade's cross-section is sort of a T-shape with a wide fuller that takes up half the blade, to keep weight and balance manageable. The hilt is fairly massive as well, the oval grip 2 inches wide by 1 inch thick, about the biggest diameter handle I could comfortable hold and wield (yes, I tested). The tang is peened inside the ring pommel. The pommel is 1.6 inches thick, the guard 1.8 at its thickest points (the rivets and raised edges).  With all that mass in the hilt and the thin blade, I think the weight and balance should be just about fine. It's still an absolute beast of a blade, but I'm 80% sure this could actually be used as a weapon by a particularly strong normal human being (let alone a super-soldier like Cloud). It ended up looking kinda Chinese, don't you think? PS. Scale it down to 50 inches or so, and it could possibly be used by a normal human, period.  |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Mar 30, 2011 20:39:57 GMT
I think I want one...
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Post by MOK on Apr 1, 2011 17:01:54 GMT
Thanks! Oh and hey, people! If you really think you can't draw well enough to present your ideas (which, speaking as a professional artist, I honestly doubt) you can always make requests for swords you'd like to see redone, or describe your ideas and I or somebody else can visualize it. Or just comment on the already posted redesigns - after all, that's what they're posted for! Be harsh if you will, I for one promise I won't cry. Vincent mentioned the Sword of Omens - that's Lion-O's magical sword bearing the Eye of Thundera, from ThunderCats - in the other thread. But IMO it's actually a pretty solid design, off the top of my head I can only think of some cosmetic changes and I'm not even sure if they'd be for the better. But I'll give it some thought over the weekend, and maybe post something next week unless somebody beats me to it... *cough*hint!hint!*cough* Other than that... I was thinking of the Kurgan's sword, from Highlander. Nothing terribly wrong with the overall looks, really, but you're supposed to be able to take it apart and pack it in a suitcase, and the way it's done in the movie just plain wouldn't work in reality. I have some tentative ideas that might be worth fleshing out, but what would you guys suggest? |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 1, 2011 18:26:56 GMT
Ah! Thanks for reminding me about the Kurgan, MOK. I remember thinking that needed a serious redesign after watching Highlander recently. Obviously, it would need to be slightly redesigned, because the United Cutlery replica is almost 6lbs, which is very strange since it's about the size of a longsword. First off, I'd say flatten the guard; it's a respectable Style 8 guard, but it's a huge chunk of metal that probably weighs a pound on its own. Second, a different pommel; it looks like a Type R (the ball), which is fine, but it seems awfully small. Personally, I'd prefer something more along the lines of a Type J or J1, but the R would work. Third is the most obvious, I think: the grip. It's completely round, yet this is supposed to be a cutting sword, most likely an XIIa. So it'd need to become ovular or a flattened hexagon (I'm leaning towards the latter, myself). Basically, it'd be the Albion Baron, but with a Style 8 guard and maybe a Type R pommel. The guard blades could rest against the base of the blade and flip out with a button press. As for the grip, I think a cord marked leather grip would be best and, just as an aesthetic thing, I'd personally add a central ring like on the Christian Fletcher Borderwatch. But that's just me. Now, to the meat and potatoes: taking it down. The only way I could imagine that it would work in real life is if you sandwiched two pieces of steel together, leaving a very, very, very narrow hollow that had a small cutout in the fuller on each side of the blade (so you'd be able to see through the blade). Do the blade in 4-5 sections like this with an extended tang sticking out the bottom to slide into that slot and have a spring mounted locking mechanism on that pseudo-tang; it slides into the slot, the mechanism pops into the hole, and locks it up. You'd have to trust friction and the lock to keep it in place (the hilt you could use with like a hex nut and just disassemble it, leaving you with a tang that has the bottom 5-6" of the blade and the spikes). Mind you, we're talking something that would have never been practical in the real world; this is just a bit of spin to make it sound plausible, if not possible. Any of that sound like what you had in mind? |
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Apr 1, 2011 19:00:37 GMT
ok,now you're talking my language ,i agree with vincent on the grip,rounds a ridiculous design for a cutting sword,i would like the cross to retain its shape,but i agree its definately too big for mere mortals,it needs to retain the ball pommel i think,but again vincents right the one on the kurgans sword is too small to counterbalance that blade i've often sketched possible designs for a take down sword,but i dont think its remotely plausible in real life (unless the first half of the blade was made thick enough for the second portion to slot down maybe 8 inches and then be locked into place,grub screws that pass through pre drilled holes in the blade and a hex wrench to tighten it (basically a hollow bar to accept the blade) which isnt really a sword blade :? though it'll be fun seeing the designs for a take down assembly ,damn i wish i could draw  |
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Post by MOK on Apr 2, 2011 9:39:21 GMT
OK, one thing we need to decide on: how small is the container the disassembled sword must fit in? I mean, I could see the Kurgan carrying around a guitar case, it would fit his style far better than the little briefcase from the film, but that seems like cheating somehow... |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 2, 2011 10:51:55 GMT
A guitar case would suit him a lot better than a briefcase and when most people see a briefcase, they wonder what could be inside, because it seems every movie terrorist and their cat use briefcases for bombs. Guitar cases, on the other hand, everybody sees one and assumes a guitar. The only real exception that I know of are the Antonio Banderas Mariachi movies, where his guitar case houses dozens of guns. It may seem like cheating, but I think it'd be best. Plus, it's closer to the size of a sword, making the number of pieces it has to be taken down into less. The question, I think, then becomes: Molded or Slim? |
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Post by MOK on Apr 2, 2011 13:09:23 GMT
Molded, absolutely. Or I could go with a violin case. |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 2, 2011 20:52:09 GMT
Now that's cliche. :lol: I say go with the guitar case just because, the Kurgan never struck me as a violinist. I'd say make it a Russian guitar to keep with his origins or an electric bass to fit the modern world.
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Post by MOK on Apr 5, 2011 8:51:58 GMT
Alright, here's my makeover for the Kurgan.  This one is based on the guitar case idea. The whole things breaks down to three pieces, the largest of them being the blade, which at 35 inches should fit comfortably in any kind of guitar or bass case. The middle section consists of the guard and ricasso and the two little spring-loaded blades that snap out of the ricasso when a button on one side of the guard is pressed - I think their only real use would be to look wicked mean, but hey, it's a movie sword, that's a totally valid raison d'être. The grip consists of a fairly large ovoid pommel, a black leather wrap with a series of raisers and a single-piece metal core with langets that go through the guard and sandwich the base of the blade.  The assembled sword is 46.5 inches overall, with an 8-inch grip and a 5-inch ricasso that you can also grab if the springblades aren't deployed. The langets of the grip section are inserted through slots in the top of the guard, and will stick out about 10 inches past the end of the ricasso. Then the blade is inserted into the bottom of the ricasso between the langets; the base is thinner than the cutting section, and beyond it the langets run in a groove sunk into the blade between the edges so that they don't hamper cutting too much. There is no way for this thing to stay together with a quick and easy snap-on construction like in the movie, so my version is fixed together with three screws: one goes through the ricasso, both grip langets and the base of the blade, and the other two just the blade and the langets.  I think the key to making this work and not fall apart in use would be state-of-the-art space age machining with insanely tight tolerances. The parts must all fit together with 100.000000000% precision. If there's any play in any part of the assembly, the vibration from hitting things with it will wear it down and break it over time, and probably not a very long time, either. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 7, 2011 12:05:14 GMT
I got all insomniac again last night and needed something to do, so here's a quickie. You know how in The 13th Warrior Buliwyf has that big two-hander that looks more like a crossbreed of the Buster Sword and the swords from the Conan movies than anything actually used in the period the story is supposedly set in? .jpeg) Yeah, I know the arms and armour in this movie are an anachronistic mess, ranging all over the place from a thousand years too late to half a millennium too early. It was a textbook case of executive meddling: the execs thought the characters were too hard to tell apart and insisted on fixing that by giving them wildly different gear. But Buliwyf's sword and that damned pseudo-scimitar are the only purely fictional weapons used by the heroes - all the others come from some real, recognizable place and time (and the baddies get a break for being entirely fictional to begin with). I'd like to avoid grinding my teeth flat so I'm not gonna touch the scimitar thing, but Buliwyf's sword...  There, doesn't that look a whole lot more like an actual Norse two-hander? Actually, the style is more Migration Era, 'cos it's an old heirloom sword - he probably made like most Viking heroes and pilfered it from some ancestral tomb, likely kicking the dead guy's ass in the process. Man, the Vikings really took mugging the elderly to a whole new level. Overall length is a hair over 51 inches, with a pattern-welded blade a hair under 40 inches long and 2.5 inches wide at the guard, and a 9-inch grip. It looks slender because of the overall proportions, but lemme tell you, that's a big blade. Let's call it Oakeshott type Xc (the c stands for Cinematic). The pommel and guards are gilt steel, with iron plates in between and iron bands fixing the pommel to the upper guard. The scabbard is wood wrapped in leather, with a gilt steel chape and baldric slide (I know the slide is usually wood or bone, but I thought the gold added a nice touch). And yes, I'm very fond of oxblood leather.  |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 7, 2011 18:01:30 GMT
Now that looks like what Buliwyf should have used!
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Apr 7, 2011 18:05:10 GMT
gorgeous design |
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Post by Talon on Apr 8, 2011 5:24:12 GMT
im still drooling over that kurgan design im still not sure how durable it would be ,but as long as the tolerances were close enough ,i could see it working,its at times like these i wish i had access to a fully kitted out machine shop |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 15:33:48 GMT
While casting about for swords to redesign, I looked upon my DVD rack and spotted Harry Potter. Being as it's the only fantasy sword I can think of that'd be easy to redesign since it didn't have, to me, a solid design in the first place, I decided to tinker around with the Sword of Godric Gryffindor. Many of you who have seen the movies remember this dinky little toy, right?  Personally, this thing wouldn't be such a horrible design if it didn't have the solid metal handle encrusted with rubies, since it's actually fairly close to a Type XIX, which is a good style (and one of my favorites). But, that really doesn't fit in with the time period the sword would have been forged in as the XIX first came about, most likely in the late 14th century, whereas Godric Gryffindor lived in the late 10th century (1,000 years prior to the story, which takes place in the early 1990s). Looking at Oakeshott's typology, an X or Xa would be more appropriate. I did a quick mock-up using the Albion Norman with the pommel of the Kingmaker, which I thought was perfect for a ruby inset, although with my skills, I couldn't do such a feature. Anyways, without further bluster, here it is:  Now it looks like a fighting weapon; something a wizard in hiding would want by his side. If anyone wants to take a better crack at it, feel free. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2011 16:31:17 GMT
Well, I've seen jewel-encrusted all-metal hilts on historical swords before - there's a whole thread full of them on myArmoury.com - but you're right, it's completely anachronistic for its supposed origin. And to me there's just something annoyingly, very slightly off about the lines and proportions, like a millimeter's change or a one-degree curve here or there could make the whole thing flow, make it look miles better and more elegant. It vexes me, all the more because the flaws are so elusive and nigh-trivial; it wouldn't be all that bad, as such, for a Renaissance court sword, but I just don't like it. I have photos of some more ornate 11th Century swords found in Finland; I'll look them up and see what I can come up with. |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 12, 2011 16:49:20 GMT
Yeah. As a Renaissance court sword, probably French or Italian, it would work fairly well, but as a 10th century fighting weapon? It'd kill enemies only by virtue of them laughing themselves to death.
I think the movie design would flow a lot better if the blade was just a bit wider, the point just a bit pointier, the ricasso quite a bit shorter, and the blade overall featuring the design elements of an XIX (the incised designs on the ricasso to name one), the name etched down the fuller in a not-quite-so-obvious manner, as even an eight year old would spot those huge letters just looking at the sword; Harry had to have it pointed out to him. Again, a leather wrapped wood guard, maybe with ruby studs (think the Hanwei Dark Sentinel), a scent-stopper pommel with ruby inset (on the bottom), with something like a VA Malatesta guard, but instead of leaving the trefoils open, small rubies inset. That'd certainly give it that ruby encrusted style without being overpowering. I think it'd also look quite nice like that.
But, with that said, that'd be if it was a Renaissance era sword that'd be at home in court or on a knight's hip on the battlefield, not a Dark Ages sword expected to cleave through mail and leather and flesh and bone on perhaps a regular basis.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 12, 2011 16:57:26 GMT
Remember that Gryffindor was a wizard, though-- he doesn't HAVE to use a sword like that. He can very well just point and shoot with a wand. If he wants to make something that'd be a toy by the standards of the time, he's entitled to.
Mind you, for 10th century it's not very period at all. I'd have expected something more like, say, the Sutton Hoo sword, or the Valkyrjia, or perhaps even a langseax of some kind... a long-knife would make sense, honestly, as Gryffindor could have used it like a large athame. Harry Potter magic doesn't draw much from Wiccan/pagan tradition though, so I don't know about them using athames...
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