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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 17:19:18 GMT
Good point. An untrained user probably isn't going to get into b) situations all that often. After playing around in Visio some this morning, I'm more convinced than ever that the mace is the way to go though. Here's my thought: Shaft would be constructed from 1-1/2"x10' pipe, available at the abandoned Home Depot. It would be cut to ~36" lengths and the ends threaded. End caps would be standard 1-1/2" pipe end caps, also available at the Home Depot. Flanges would be constructed from the 5mm plate; the plate would be cut into 2"x2" squares, then cut again along the diagonal. The resulting flanges would be welded to the pipe shaft at 60° increments. The grip would be friction tape over a cord or wire spiral (I didn't bother Visioing that bit.) I still believe this would be easier to produce in quantity than even a simple blade-shape, and far easier to train the average person in effective use. Now, once you've got the basics covered with something like this, then I could see trying to set up a more intricate manufacturing/training regime--and I think some of the blades displayed earlier would be great for that (I particularly liked the ones that included splitting and saw-toothed blades, I felt like those would be great hunter/gatherer/scout-type weapons.) Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 23:01:40 GMT
Been Interesting read, with a few really nice design concepts, and plenty to daydream on whenever bored! I had a few thoughts on the OP: -Seems like in such a situation described, electricity would be at jeopardy often. Perhaps a forged design would be better since the chisels, tool heads etc.,etc. at the "Home Depot" could be hammered flat and suitable steel. Otherwise perhaps weed-whackers and similar could be converted to cutting grinding tools for the milled or stock removal swords. -The 5mm plating might be better to use as armor plating on vehicles, or shields/ actual body armor -I like that the designs posted use 2 dimensional shapes to achieve balance, since taper would be difficult. (Unless forging, which defeats the purpose of the "plate"). However, straight edges ,rather than curved would be easier to cut out. -A sword ,especially a short sword around 2 feet would always be handy. BUT I can think of several propellants, and large bore (lower than modern firearm velocity stuff) that could be built easier than a sword even ...As well as some improvised high velocity designs using hydraulic fork lift fittings, etc. - It would be easier and simple as well to build a Flamethrower instead... :twisted: I daydreamed up a few simple designs thinking on this: For example using the pressure- washer nozzle, (they're around 4000 psi capable) :shock: Not sure how the fittings (o-rings, etc.) would hold up...and a click light torch for ignition. Various fire extinguishers could be sprayed off, the contents dumped, filled with denatured alcohol/napalm mixture from paint isle (since gasoline would be precious(?). The gauge removed and a small propane can piped in where the pressure gauge normally goes is using brass fittings. (Propane would yield around 80-130+ PSI depending on temperature) This would prevent a dangerous air (oxygen) and fuel mixture in the tank since the the mix is too rich to combust until hitting air. That would be the compact version w/ auto ignite propane torch as well , and regular extingiusher valve except metal nozzle attached. Flamethrower would be excellent "proximity weapon" since come close get fried ,stay away, fine...same thing I like about swords/ knives too. Except it can't be used in one's own dwelling though. Also if it's a lucky Home-Depot they'd have surgical tubing to propel all sorts of stuff (crossbows, slingshots, bows)... Or just hose-clamp the stuff onto a 1" PVCx about 6 inch long, with leather between the hose clamp, pouch like a slingshot and draw the arrow back and release like a simple harpoon ... I better stop before I mention too much, but it's been fun for EXCLUSIVELY entertainment purposes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 0:13:25 GMT
maybe this suggestion has been thrown in here, but why not have a short tactical sword with a female screw pattern at the bottom (it doesn't interfere with the tang. So if you find a broom or something just screw it on now you have a pole arm, pudao or Naginata) Of course when you see an attack the bad guys not going to stop so you can ready your pole arm, but if your going into senerio that a pole arms would be good and just happens you find a broom or mop..or in home depot. lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 11:22:10 GMT
Well, my first thought was something along those lines, but it doesn't quite fit the OP's criterion. See, what I was thinking was one of these: (I've got the Pattern 1913 bayonet sitting on my livingroom window sill at the moment--those things are just silly fun: 21-3/4" overall, 17" blade, designed for nothing but stabbing.) But since the OP specifically stipulates that private weapon ownership isn't allowed, the chance that I'd be able to scrounge a WWI trench gun with bayonet is pretty slim. I like the convertible idea, but I think a threaded pommel might take too long to attach/detach. I could see using a 19th century bayonet mount, though (one of the spring-loaded, push-in-and-twist-to-lock types.) Attachments:
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Post by bloodwraith on Oct 27, 2011 11:56:16 GMT
Shamshir: if you are genuinely after a duan dao, talk to Garrett at www.jin-shi.com/, he is fantastic to deal with and will go above and beyond to make sure you get what you want.
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Post by MOK on Oct 27, 2011 17:31:43 GMT
More to the point, we're going for low-down dirty asymmetric skirmish warfare, here, not chivalric man-to-man bouts on an open field. If the enemy actually has a chance to take a swipe at you, you've already screwed up. Well... to produce a simple blade all you have to do is cut a shape out of sheet metal and grind it sharp. For this mace you have to cut six shapes out of sheet metal, cut a length of pipe, and weld the bits of sheet metal to the pipe. And you have to be meticulous about it because every weld will be under considerable stress and is a major potential breaking point. More parts means more chances for failure, both in production and in use. If we're taking the impact weapons route, I'd rather go for something like a goedendag - just five feet of sturdy wood with a spike and a reinforcing metal band at one end. It can stab as well as clobber, has more reach and is simpler to make than a flanged mace, and if it breaks all you have to do is make a new haft. They were popular with militias for good reason.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 19:15:51 GMT
True, but each cut is far simpler than a single blade would be, and you don't so much have to be meticulous with the welding--we're not looking for any aesthetic prizes here--you just have to be heavy-handed with the stuff. I've got an old blunt Euro sword intended for helping new live-steel reenactors get a feel for a blade. It's literally a blade welded to a crossbar which is in turn welded to something resembling what a tang ought to look like (originally wrapped in burlap, I rewrapped it in suede for a more comfortable grip.) The thing is ugly as sin, balance is terrible, and if you had any other option you'd chuck the thing for scrap in a heartbeat...but it's solid, and more importantly, it works, and that's what we're going for here. Ah, but the beauty of the flanged mace design is that the flanges are just icing on the cake--if one breaks off in your opponent...well, you've still got a 3' long steel pipe. Keep hitting until they stop moving. Maybe adding a bit of weight to the end by partially filling it with concrete would be more effective than the flanges though...certainly faster and easier from a construction point of view. The goedendag does sound like an equally good idea. Though at that point we're almost back to "Home Depot has machetes, let's just lash one to a pole--presto, instant glaive (or naginata, if you prefer Eastern equivalences.)" While that meets the OP's stipulations, I kind of feel like it's cheating the intent of the thread.
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Post by Neovenetar on Oct 27, 2011 19:24:05 GMT
I say that a crude machete with a gaurd and a spear would be a good approach. Though I'm sure with more time you could make crossbows and even firearms as someone said.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 20:44:21 GMT
thanks yeah im he will be my go to when i have the dosh to back it up.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Oct 27, 2011 21:17:30 GMT
Well... it's a lot more complex than that. While you probably could just grind out a blade and put an edge to it, it will probably cut just as well as a metal club. Blade geometry is a lot more than just grinding it sharp. Don't forget heat treating, too, the biggest hurdle in blade making. And while you could kill a zombie with a piece of cut out and sharpened mild steel, in the apocalypse you're fighting for your life and want the best tool possible. If you can't get a GOOD sword it's better to have none at all and rather go for something simple as a mace. Welding something solidly isn't half as difficult as making a blade you can trust in a life to death situation.
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Post by MOK on Oct 28, 2011 2:58:42 GMT
It doesn't have to be. Look at modern machetes, for example - they are, almost by definition, just punched out of sheet metal and ground sharp along one of more edges. I specifically said "a simple blade" for a reason. Yeah, but the scenario specifically states we have the capacity to heat treat our blades. And it's easier to set up a standard process for heat treating batches of blades than for manually welding together flanged maces (and depending on the exact sort of steel we're working with, those could well need heat treatment, too). Still, I would more readily trust a single solid piece of steel than seven separate pieces welded together. Every joint is another chance for something to go wrong at some point, no matter how thorough and careful you are, and when you're churning out large numbers of these things in a hurry...
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Post by MOK on Oct 28, 2011 3:27:28 GMT
Well, sure. But the way I see it, you'll have to do all that welding by hand. We could set up a series of guides for cutting blanks and grinding out blades, make it almost automatic, but I can't think of any way to automatize welding without a dedicated industrial assembly line. And since we want to arm lots of people fast, it'll get to be a lot of work in little time... and unlike refining an edge, there's no way for the users in the field to finish the work on any weld that happens to be lacking. And then, would you really want to use that thing as a weapon? I mean, I'm sure it's solid, but so's a dumbbell... there's a (not so) fine line between sturdy and overbuilt. Yeah, that's my issue with it: why bother with the flanges at all? We don't need to split heavy armour, just flesh and craniums. Seriously, stick a spike halfway into the end of a wooden dowel, fix half a foot of pipe around it to prevent splitting, and presto! You've got a goedendag: a mace and a spear in one! It's a lot easier to make than an all-metal mace, lighter to carry, easier to repair or replace, reaches much further and can double as a hunting weapon, walking stick or generic blunt instrument (for hammering in tent poles and such). You could even fix the reinforcing band with a couple of sharp studs - just drive some nine-inch nails all the way through and leave the protruding ends sharp - if you want that small area of impact. In order to avoid completely undermining the basic premise of the thread, let's just assume that the Home Depot we have access to does not have an endless supply of readily weaponizable gardening tools in store, so sooner or later we'll have to start making our own. OK?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2011 13:16:50 GMT
Hahaha, fair enough. In that case, I'll go along with the goedendag idea--it deals with a lot of the disadvantages I see inherent in a bladed design* and it sounds like it'd be pretty easy to crank out a neighborhood's worth of 'em.
* At least in a short-term situation, in a longer term one the blade's disadvantages can be overcome with training.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2011 9:32:02 GMT
after looking at MOK designs again, i want a hanwei banshee now...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2011 15:00:52 GMT
My design. bottom can be used as a hammer Attachments:
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Post by swordmaster0813 on Dec 17, 2011 20:41:39 GMT
il give u a custom tactical sword may not be the iron spike very quick construction but shes a beauty i had the guys at zombie tools do up a custom apokatana for me based offa my own specs requests they normally NEVER NEVER EVER do custom work but im an old costumer and in 2011 there into me for like $2000 so they made an exception for i had em do the formal apokatana with slightly less curve but not a straight sword by any means then add an inch to the hilt and an inch of blade and there version is acid etched with a tanto point i had em do a hand hammered weathered finish and a tip exchange like that of the beastmaster sword scimitar style almost
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Post by Derzis on Jan 4, 2012 2:23:07 GMT
I don't have time now for drawing, but my tactical sword would be a katana geometry blade and this kind of tsuka wrapping:
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Post by KentsOkay on Aug 8, 2012 14:34:30 GMT
My name, is Necro! As much as I would like to have a tactical side sword, this would probably be beyond the means of of the weapon smiths. I'd have them turn out their best impression of the Zombie Tools D'Captain, and I would outfit it with homebrew micarta grips: I would wield it with a hatchet to make a sweet fighting pair. Now if we are started organizing militia, I'd see them outfitted with hoplite shields and the smith's best crack at the Phalanx, also with micarta grips. When I finish deciding what a tactical sidesword looks like, I shall post it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 15:21:42 GMT
Some interesting ideas brought forth on the first page (sorry I don't have time to read all the posts in between). Somebody designed a sword which is effectively a short sword, and another brought up the use of spears. I agree with the point on why a sword is better for defense against armed bandits than a spear, but also think that short swords may fit the scenario better than full-length swords. Short swords are much easier to make, take less resources, and are easier to learn for those who have never handled a sword before. They're also good for fighting in closer quarters and are safer for your comrades fighting beside you if you don't know what you're doing so well...
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Post by K. Vander Linde on Aug 22, 2012 2:38:26 GMT
i would simply make dagers in the rondel style, teach some basic grapling and endurence, then send them on their way. Why? because I'd try to make one of these again www.instructables.com/id/Hand-Held-Ballista/me and my friend T. King made this in our high school tech class. it can be easly made by hand insted of CNC. Bilistics and CQC, what more do you need? and i know a bow would be easer to make.
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