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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 20:27:16 GMT
I wouldn't jump at Canaduh, I think he posted his experience politely and that he has the right to inform us of his dealings with Wiwingti Sword Supply. IMHO, one or two e-mails from Marc, just to clarify a few things, may have saved Canaduh some trouble and would've been more polite than refunding and not saying anything. It was Marc's right to cancel this sale, but it could have been done more politely (again, IMHO).
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 20:30:29 GMT
This whole thing between buyer and seller seems to be a tangled mess assumptions and mis communications. Sad, but this sort of thing causes so much distrust and so many problems.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 20:34:42 GMT
Perhaps we can use this bad experience from both customer and vendor perspective. we could start a thread and stickie post on education for new buyers on how to inspect a new sword and make sure they got a good deal without doing something that would void warranty so if they do find something wrong it will be returnable with out voiding the vendors return. sounds like the misunderstanding sucks for both, but can be used as a learning tool. sirtre, i think that is a wonderful idea. ;D A nice helpful guide of questions to ask, how to inspect a new purchase, etc... I think you have seen this for what it should be, a chance to improve ourselves, and get better. I could see how that could be helpful in more ways than one. I imagine all our vendors would have some good helpful tips and and forumites would appreciate not having to always say the same things every week.
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Post by randomnobody on May 15, 2010 20:41:33 GMT
I love when these threads pop up ever month or so. Makes me all warm and fuzzy, it does.
There's a difference between asking questions, and being a bloody nuisance. I'm tempted to side with Marc on this one...17 emails? Really? How many of those could have been condensed? Why wasn't the first one all of the questions you had, but COULDN'T FIND ANSWERS for? Most of the answers are readily accessible elsewhere...the only thing you need to ask a vendor is "Do you have it, are you able to check it (to the best of your ability) for flaws before sending it, and am I able to return it should I not be satisfied, provided I have not clearly misused it."
Now, the checking for flaws may amount to removing a tsuka to look inside to see any visible cracks, certainly there is no need to unravel the ito...but this all comes down to whether the "dealer" even gets to see the sword before it ships out. Not every company president is sitting in the warehouse, you know. On the other hand, a simple note that any alteration to the original product voids any and all guarantee/warranty/return/exchange should be present somewhere on the site or at least mentioned via email during these exchanges.
So really...who's wrong here? Well...you have two choices, clearly...but it's not the choices you're thinking. It's not "dealer" or "cusomer"...it's both or neither.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 20:43:19 GMT
I think a new forum about what to ask etc is a great idea and apparently much needed. It would have prevented all of this.
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Post by shadowhowler on May 15, 2010 20:44:52 GMT
I wouldn't jump at Canaduh, I think he posted his experience politely and that he has the right to inform us of his dealings with Wiwingti Sword Supply. IMHO, one or two e-mails from Marc, just to clarify a few things, may have saved Canaduh some trouble and would've been more polite than refunding and not saying anything. It was Marc's right to cancel this sale, but it could have been done more politely (again, IMHO). I disagree. I feel the tone of his posts here and elsewhere were VERY insulting to Marc. 17 e-mails? When I bought my first swords never did I barrage a seller with THAT many, I really feel that is a bit much. Way to much IMO. Marc has demonstrated, hands down, the most prolific examples of standing behind what you sell after the fact, and has gone above and beyond to make sure anyone who had issues was taken care of. Sometimes that customer services comes right out of his pocket. I think if a customer demonstrated they may be problematic, by asking SO many questions as to need 17 e-mails to order a single sword, If I were Marc I would decide not to risk selling to that guy myself, it might cost me more money down the road. I Sell/Trade a LOT of swords here and on other sites, I used to buy and sell cars as a side job as well. If I had a potential customer asking me THAT many questions, I could almost promise you I would just decide NOT to sell/trade to them... its not worth the risk... because if I *DO* sell/trade to thema nd they have issues... I have to make good, its my reputation and personal honor on the line... and a potential customer asking that much is too much of a risk for me. Sorry... on this one I just don't see the OP's side of it at all... there are so many crappy sellers out there who will take advantage of people... Marc and Wiwingti have shown time and time again to be one of, if not THE best there is. After being barraged like this and screwed over so many times, I don't blame him at all for taking a pass and giving a full refund.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 20:47:21 GMT
Agreed. I think that calling this a "WARNING" is wrong.
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Post by randomnobody on May 15, 2010 20:47:46 GMT
I think a new forum about what to ask etc is a great idea and apparently much needed. It would have prevented all of this. These things have been addressed numerous times in numerous ways, places, and I can go on. The thing is...YOU have to LOOK for it, generally YOURSELF. Don't expect to be spoonfed...you're a big boy/girl/person. Homework doesn't stop when you hang that certificate on the wall or stuff it in a closet, like I did.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 20:50:19 GMT
I think a new forum about what to ask etc is a great idea and apparently much needed. It would have prevented all of this. The forum and all of its members LOVE to answer questions already. Everyone is more than willing to help and answer question after question from new users asking about the first sword they should buy.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 20:51:21 GMT
I guess I should be a little clearer here for some people. I did NOT complain about loosing any money, I did NOT complain about being ripped off in anyway and if someone has read into that, well they should read a little more carefully. Although you did not complain about losing money or being ripped off, your "WARNING" was, in my opinion, premature and in poor taste. It appears to me that you simply wanted to vent your frustrations because someone told you "NO". Going after the vendors reputation over something so simple is borderline malicious. If the "dealer" was so worried about getting stuck with having to refund the money, why did he not just say something as simple as "I can't guarantee anything so maybe you would be better off choosing another Katana" Or how about "I think you will be a problem, I don't really want to sell you the sword anymore". Either would have been fine. You know what, maybe he should have gone that far and told you those things. However, he did not have an obligation to do so. What makes sense to me in this situation is exactly what he said: he was tired of answering all your questions most of which could have probably been avoided had you better educated yourself on the type of blade you are ordering. Nevertheless, had he sent you the reason for his action do you want us to believe that this thread would not be here? Not likely, either way I believe you were going to be "offended". So your point is moot My concerns fell when I asked the questions I was advised to ask in regards to purchasing a Katana, the dealer did not communicate with me and just dumped the sale. It is the customer service issue and the complete and utter lack of respect I am complaining about. Now is a time when you need to be VERY careful with the words that you use. The above statement insinuates that the vendor NEVER answered ANY of your questions. Is this the case sir? Did he not answer ANY of your questions, or did he answer ALL of them right until the end when he was fed up dealing with you. The vendor is not a personal shopper and although you have the right to some questions, you also have the responsibility to educate yourself on the product from independent sources. ......I posted this to warn members as I thought I was entitled to do. I guess not? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and I actually feel more ignorant for having read it. If that sentence was true you WOULD NOT have titled your post the way you did. Your title would have read "unhappy" or "disappointed". But no, your post was "WARNING" which as you well know construes a message of impropriety. It is clear to me that you were simply lashing out at some who had the "nerve" for not wanting to do business with YOU....a "customer service manager"...how dare he! Lets call a spade a spade here and not a SHOVEL...shall we? I am a consumer, I am entitled to ask these questions and if they were too much for you why didn't you just say so? Again, you are correct, you are entitled to ask anything you want, however, you are not entitled to an answer. Nor do you have the right to go after someone's reputation for THEIR CHOICE in not wanting to do business with you, for whatever the reason. When one of my customers is spending their hard earned cash to purchase something I am selling, I will answer 100 of their emails if that helps them and puts their mind at ease. This may very well be true, but I will find it hard to believe that you have never dealt with a customer that, no matter what you said, was never going to be happy. If a vendor believes this is likely to happen they have the right to refuse service. Especially when dealing with customs and crossing international lines can make a deal with a customer FAR more trouble than it is worth. Now with all that said above, let me close by saying this. I have NEVER purchased a product from the vendor in question. However, I did receive a DVD from him and the communication was adequate and friendly. Perhaps that is because I wasn't asking how well the DVD will hold up in UV light, what cleaner is best used to maintain it or what happens if I leave the country - will I be able to return it for a European coded disk? Perhaps wiwingti is a shady dealer, I cant speak to that from personal experience. However having been a member of this forum for the time I have, I CAN say that I have not seen that to be the case. He is an active member here with positive reviews and a friendly personality. If you are looking for absolutes, good luck, because there are NONE in this business. The only thing you can do is EDUCATE yourself to the best of your ability before you start spending you "hard earned money", and consequently, when making a purchase it is never a good idea to put all your faith into the word of someone who is trying to sell it. Doing so, will only lead to a higher chance of getting ripped off since many vendors will tell the customer exactly what they want to hear since "profit" is their main goal, not your happiness. If you don't realize that is the world you are living in then TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS. My long winded .02
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 21:02:31 GMT
ineffableone---I have spoken to Marc on the phone on more than one occasion,and I can assure you while Marcs English isnt horrible, its far from great,even in pm's from him I have sometimes had to say Marc what did you mean by that more than once.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 21:06:50 GMT
I also agree warning is a very strong word.I was ticked when I saw the post and then I found out who it was and well just figured Marc had his reasons or something wasnt being said.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 21:09:55 GMT
You guys need to look at it from Canduh's point of view. Alot of the last posts have been just as much of attacks on him as you guys saying hes being wrong with his "warning". From what I gathered Canduh was refunded his money then all communication was stopped at that point, which is why Canduh made this thread to try to get an answer why there was no response which we have found out was because Marc blocked his email right after. I'm sure regardless of how many emails you sent someone, after you paid for something then being refunded and blocked out you would be curious as to why also.
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Post by mythosequidae on May 15, 2010 21:19:55 GMT
Monsieur Lacompte was correct to avoid this customer. He was told repeatedly that if there was one single flaw, it would be returned. Huge hassle. I am a Canadian who has purchased one Hanwei from Mr. Lacompte. The shipping cost was high because Hanwei refuses to ship directly to me in Canada. Therefore, Marc must pay UPS to ship it to him, then he must ship to me via Canada Post. Expensive. For a return, reverse that.
I have not seen a flawless Hanwei, so trouble was imminent.
My purchase was quite a while ago, so maybe shipping is different for Marc now, but the man is good.
Marc felt so bad for having to charge me for the UPS BS that he sent me several apologetic notes. It really pained him. The man is only selling swords because he loves them. He is making maybe $30 per sword. Two hours of emailing is not worth $30.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 21:29:07 GMT
I wouldn't jump at Canaduh, I think he posted his experience politely and that he has the right to inform us of his dealings with Wiwingti Sword Supply. IMHO, one or two e-mails from Marc, just to clarify a few things, may have saved Canaduh some trouble and would've been more polite than refunding and not saying anything. It was Marc's right to cancel this sale, but it could have been done more politely (again, IMHO). I disagree. I feel the tone of his posts here and elsewhere were VERY insulting to Marc. 17 e-mails? When I bought my first swords never did I barrage a seller with THAT many, I really feel that is a bit much. Way to much IMO. Marc has demonstrated, hands down, the most prolific examples of standing behind what you sell after the fact, and has gone above and beyond to make sure anyone who had issues was taken care of. Sometimes that customer services comes right out of his pocket. I think if a customer demonstrated they may be problematic, by asking SO many questions as to need 17 e-mails to order a single sword, If I were Marc I would decide not to risk selling to that guy myself, it might cost me more money down the road. I Sell/Trade a LOT of swords here and on other sites, I used to buy and sell cars as a side job as well. If I had a potential customer asking me THAT many questions, I could almost promise you I would just decide NOT to sell/trade to them... its not worth the risk... because if I *DO* sell/trade to thema nd they have issues... I have to make good, its my reputation and personal honor on the line... and a potential customer asking that much is too much of a risk for me. Sorry... on this one I just don't see the OP's side of it at all... there are so many crappy sellers out there who will take advantage of people... Marc and Wiwingti have shown time and time again to be one of, if not THE best there is. After being barraged like this and screwed over so many times, I don't blame him at all for taking a pass and giving a full refund. I disagree. I don't think Canaduh was impolite and I don't think asking 15+ questions is a sure sign that a customer is going to be trouble. I believe sending an e-mail explaining things a bit further would've been better, from Marc's. Or maybe a phone call. I don't know, but just dropping the thing and leaving it alone seems a bit off to me, even if it's no big deal, considering Canaduh didn't loose a single penny. Besides, I don't think Canaduh had any ill intent toward Marc's, although that his my personnal opinion and nothing more. Personnaly, I am annoyed to see people go berzerk just because a customer claims he had a mediocre experience with Wiwingti, like he is some kind of saint that can't be critised (and don't go assuming that I just said that Marc is a mediocre seller, I think his commitment, his prices and his customer support are near-impossible to beat). I don't think Marc is beyond doing a misstep, just once in a while, hell, every seller, anyone who works with his/her customer may make a mistake, and I think Marc just made a small one (which almost surely won't hurt his reputation, IMO). Besides, if you want some real good old insulting remark, scroll down ... I guess I should be a little clearer here for some people. I did NOT complain about loosing any money, I did NOT complain about being ripped off in anyway and if someone has read into that, well they should read a little more carefully. Although you did not complain about losing money or being ripped off, your "WARNING" was, in my opinion, premature and in poor taste. It appears to me that you simply wanted to vent your frustrations because someone told you "NO". Going after the vendors reputation over something so simple is borderline malicious. You know what, maybe he should have gone that far and told you those things. However, he did not have an obligation to do so. What makes sense to me in this situation is exactly what he said: he was tired of answering all your questions most of which could have probably been avoided had you better educated yourself on the type of blade you are ordering. Nevertheless, had he sent you the reason for his action do you want us to believe that this thread would not be here? Not likely, either way I believe you were going to be "offended". So your point is moot Now is a time when you need to be VERY careful with the words that you use. The above statement insinuates that the vendor NEVER answered ANY of your questions. Is this the case sir? Did he not answer ANY of your questions, or did he answer ALL of them right until the end when he was fed up dealing with you. The vendor is not a personal shopper and although you have the right to some questions, you also have the responsibility to educate yourself on the product from independent sources. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and I actually feel more ignorant for having read it. If that sentence was true you WOULD NOT have titled your post the way you did. Your title would have read "unhappy" or "disappointed". But no, your post was "WARNING" which as you well know construes a message of impropriety. It is clear to me that you were simply lashing out at some who had the "nerve" for not wanting to do business with YOU....a "customer service manager"...how dare he! Lets call a spade a spade here and not a SHOVEL...shall we? Again, you are correct, you are entitled to ask anything you want, however, you are not entitled to an answer. Nor do you have the right to go after someone's reputation for THEIR CHOICE in not wanting to do business with you, for whatever the reason. When one of my customers is spending their hard earned cash to purchase something I am selling, I will answer 100 of their emails if that helps them and puts their mind at ease. This may very well be true, but I will find it hard to believe that you have never dealt with a customer that, no matter what you said, was never going to be happy. If a vendor believes this is likely to happen they have the right to refuse service. Especially when dealing with customs and crossing international lines can make a deal with a customer FAR more trouble than it is worth. Now with all that said above, let me close by saying this. I have NEVER purchased a product from the vendor in question. However, I did receive a DVD from him and the communication was adequate and friendly. Perhaps that is because I wasn't asking how well the DVD will hold up in UV light, what cleaner is best used to maintain it or what happens if I leave the country - will I be able to return it for a European coded disk? Perhaps wiwingti is a shady dealer, I cant speak to that from personal experience. However having been a member of this forum for the time I have, I CAN say that I have not seen that to be the case. He is an active member here with positive reviews and a friendly personality. If you are looking for absolutes, good luck, because there are NONE in this business. The only thing you can do is EDUCATE yourself to the best of your ability before you start spending you "hard earned money", and consequently, when making a purchase it is never a good idea to put all your faith into the word of someone who is trying to sell it. Doing so, will only lead to a higher chance of getting ripped off since many vendors will tell the customer exactly what they want to hear since "profit" is their main goal, not your happiness. If you don't realize that is the world you are living in then TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS. My long winded .02 That was disrespectful, uncalled for, IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 21:36:07 GMT
Once again I agree with sebastian. When I was buying my Munetoshi's , it started with 10 emails between me and customer service asking about returning my musashi with a cracked tsuka, once that was settled there was another 24 emails exchanged between me and Midori about the swords, then finally the phone call to place the order and stuff. I even asked Midori to personally inspect the blades for me before they left. I think thats alot more emails and time taken than canduh spent and we had no problems and I think both partys ended up happy and I know for sure im going to be buying from them again just because of the great service and for putting up with all my questions and stuff lol.
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Post by YlliwCir on May 15, 2010 21:43:50 GMT
Looks like some overreactions on both sides about something that was basically settled.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 21:49:28 GMT
Alright, so while we may all have strong opinions, I feel it is time to step in a remind people of something. The spirit of this forum is friendliness and accessibility, and to maintain this, we all have to be more than civil. Civility is very easy to mistake for terse replies. I would like to remind members that it takes maybe 15 seconds to type "with all due respect". It takes less time to type "I have a different opinion" rather than "you're wrong". So, please, be pleasant! It makes this forum a much much better place to come on a regular basis. Thank you,
Bryn
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Post by mythosequidae on May 15, 2010 22:04:37 GMT
No. We thrive on poisoned drama. Newspapers, reality TV, fighting sports. It is the poisonous threads that never die, until locked. We love it, and look for it. You cannot stop it.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 22:09:24 GMT
Having an arguing match may bring its share of dark joys, but I think we should get that joy from playing GTA 4 or first-person shooters rather than throwing our bile at each other.
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