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Post by genocideseth on Feb 1, 2010 20:52:45 GMT
How do you guys think I feel? I QUIT junkfood, and have to watch my friends snack on it every time I visit.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 1, 2010 20:59:16 GMT
If I ever get any cookies, Seth, I'll have one more for you. I might even cut it with a katana. ...or not.
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Post by genocideseth on Feb 1, 2010 21:01:15 GMT
I might even cut it with a katana. ...or not. I know you don't care for the karma system, but have a karma! ;D I got a good chuckle out of this...
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 1, 2010 21:04:45 GMT
Gives a whole new meaning to "cookie cutter"...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2010 22:13:38 GMT
Funny part here is, the design is what lends the properties. If it's made the same, it'll act the same. Granted, what you mean is no Musashi will ever be a true, high-quality Japanese sword...but they'll cut mats and such just the same. Yeah, but you miss my point. Saying "all katana are awesome" is just as inaccurate as saying "all katana are horrible" or "all katana are Musashi's." It's a logical fallacy. I'd rather say: It's a sword. I like to avoid mixing the word "just" into it, because I don't like what it seems to imply. A sword doesn't need to aspire to be more then a sword. Yes, but you can't say all katana are equal. That's what I'm trying to get to here. There's more then one kind. What they are designed for doesn't really factor into it. Frankly, all tools should be expected to perform the tasks they are designed for: That's no logical basis for glorification. Some rapiers were better cutters then others, though, just as some katana, I believe, were better thrusters then other. Yeah, well, I don't really care about the myths themselves. They can be annoying when taken to extremes, but I believe they are part of a healthy human psyche. Endorse them or denounce them, whatever. I'm just saying that the way people believe in the myths makes no sense to me. If it was a matter of saying: "The best sword in the world is a katana", then I could get behind it. That makes sense to me, even if I don't necessarily believe it myself. But saying: "The katana, as a category, are the best swords in the world", well, that's just crazy talk. I'd like to say the analogy doesn't work, but then again, cookies are not created equal either. Store-bought doesn't taste home-baked, no matter what the package says.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2010 22:18:26 GMT
How do you guys think I feel? I QUIT junkfood, and have to watch my friends snack on it every time I visit. quitters never win.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2010 22:22:31 GMT
How do you guys think I feel? I QUIT junkfood, and have to watch my friends snack on it every time I visit. quitters never win. Only quitters quit!
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 1, 2010 22:58:42 GMT
Anders, I think we're more in agreement than I'm able to have you realize.
My own key point was the generalization angle, and I even used generalization in my approach.
Sure, every sword is precisely what it is, no more, no less. There are "types" or "categories" that are very broad. Taking the cutting rapier angle again, to you, me, most members here, this is nothing major to grasp. There are others out there, though, that couldn't tell a rapier from an estoc from a crowbar.
Of course...it IS still a matter of design, more than anything else. But we can set that note aside for now.
I like my cookie approach. It's yummy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 2:04:48 GMT
I've seen that video before, definitely worth a laugh. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 2:20:44 GMT
I just wanted to mention that, despite the fact that due to the ore supplies in Japan it was necessary, folding steel is a very dangerous technique to go about in producing a sword, since carbon is lost every time you fold it (I think Dan Davis mentioned this in another thread, name could be wrong, but not info), which is why the Celts and other Nordic tribes dumped it for the more intricate pattern-welding technique, so katana quality in its time was hit-and-miss. Granted, a good sword-smith would be able to get it right with practice, but nonetheless quality would be in question, which is probably the reason why katanas are generally thicker than Euro swords and were not used for stabbing (when you stab, especially against armor, it puts a lot of stress on the sword, which makes it break easier) imo... so it's rather hard to cut through a machine-gun barrel with it, as is with any other sword in creation...
anyway, long intro to my point, I hate myths about all swords... especially when people believe them because they are from a foreign culture, in this case Japan, but throughout history ppl have have this kind of BS and I'm sick of it...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 2:25:38 GMT
I think a Bronze Falcata could beat a Katana in a Tank cutting compitions any day!!!! ;D..............SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 3:09:18 GMT
I think a Bronze Falcata could beat a Katana in a Tank cutting compitions any day!!!! ;D..............SanMarc. only if there is no temper on the bronze Falcata...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 3:56:11 GMT
I think a Bronze Falcata could beat a Katana in a Tank cutting compitions any day!!!! ;D..............SanMarc. only if there is no temper on the bronze Falcata... Or it is super-duper megaultra cryotreated-tempred to UNDER 9000 degrees then heated to considerable OVER 9000 again! And then quenched in the blood of the most beautiful and innocent virgins! On a full moon! At night!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 4:02:01 GMT
in a bat cave...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 4:19:43 GMT
I just wanted to mention that, despite the fact that due to the ore supplies in Japan it was necessary, folding steel is a very dangerous technique to go about in producing a sword, since carbon is lost every time you fold it (I think Dan Davis mentioned this in another thread, name could be wrong, but not info), which is why the Celts and other Nordic tribes dumped it for the more intricate pattern-welding technique, so katana quality in its time was hit-and-miss. Granted, a good sword-smith would be able to get it right with practice, but nonetheless quality would be in question, which is probably the reason why katanas are generally thicker than Euro swords and were not used for stabbing (when you stab, especially against armor, it puts a lot of stress on the sword, which makes it break easier). Depends what you define as dangerous? Folding steel isn't "dangerous" at all. Yes carbon is lost when you fold it, but you just add it back in. I don't think the celts and the norse people ever folded their blades, I haven't come across anything to ever say they even tried it because they were so good at pattern-welding and their iron was of much better quality. However it wasn't that the japanese ore was bad, it was that it took so much effort to seperate the good stuff out into a workable ingot. Katana quality was not hit or miss, unless you are talking about the katana used during world war 2 which were not made in the traditional method. As to folded katana being hit or miss, I disagree with your assessment.
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Post by sparky on Feb 2, 2010 21:43:28 GMT
That said, excuse me while I oil my abs. ...okay my ab. That's right; he might think his six-pack is sexy, but I've got a KEG. LOL! ;D The rest of the post was pretty good too. I like that a car wasn't used as an analogy. I'm weird but I like chips ahoy! Best sword um I mean cookie made.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 22:19:26 GMT
Say what you will, but Bren Foster is a 5th dan in Taekwondo, and I'm pretty sure he'd have little to no problem in beating the tar out of any of you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 22:29:24 GMT
Say what you will, but Bren Foster is a 5th dan in Taekwondo, and I'm pretty sure he'd have little to no problem in beating the tar out of any of you. Look! Overgeneralization, again! I'd be happy to bet a large sum of money in opposition of that. Back to the original topic of the katana and science in regards to that vid, it has been scientifically proven that katana caused the creation of the universe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 22:39:49 GMT
Say what you will, but Bren Foster is a 5th dan in Taekwondo, and I'm pretty sure he'd have little to no problem in beating the tar out of any of you. Look! Overgeneralization, again! I'd be happy to bet a large sum of money in opposition of that. Back to the original topic of the katana and science in regards to that vid, it has been scientifically proven that katana caused the creation of the universe. And as it turns out, said katana was from MetaUniversalBudk
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2010 22:44:32 GMT
I just wanted to mention that, despite the fact that due to the ore supplies in Japan it was necessary, folding steel is a very dangerous technique to go about in producing a sword, since carbon is lost every time you fold it (I think Dan Davis mentioned this in another thread, name could be wrong, but not info), which is why the Celts and other Nordic tribes dumped it for the more intricate pattern-welding technique, so katana quality in its time was hit-and-miss. Granted, a good sword-smith would be able to get it right with practice, but nonetheless quality would be in question, which is probably the reason why katanas are generally thicker than Euro swords and were not used for stabbing (when you stab, especially against armor, it puts a lot of stress on the sword, which makes it break easier). Depends what you define as dangerous? Folding steel isn't "dangerous" at all. Yes carbon is lost when you fold it, but you just add it back in. I don't think the celts and the norse people ever folded their blades, I haven't come across anything to ever say they even tried it because they were so good at pattern-welding and their iron was of much better quality. However it wasn't that the japanese ore was bad, it was that it took so much effort to seperate the good stuff out into a workable ingot. Katana quality was not hit or miss, unless you are talking about the katana used during world war 2 which were not made in the traditional method. As to folded katana being hit or miss, I disagree with your assessment. The Norse folded before they pattern-welded (which is in a way a more complicated form of folding, because you still get to fold, hammer and create layers and stuff, they are related) All I am saying is there is a high degree of risk that the amount of carbon put in will be more/less than what it is supposed to be, so chances are you might end up with a sword that is substandard because of it. As I said before, smiths were experienced enough to deal with this problem, but nonetheless possibility exists. Norse people dealt with this by mixing vortices with "too much" and "too little" carbon, so the outcome was one with less risk. Anyway though, I am not going to argue with you about it. I'm not really impressed... taekundo is a fine martial art, but I'm positive 99.9% of the people here could stick a sword right through him on the double... as for myself, I am a tighhead prop in rugby, and if you don't know what that is, I am the guy whose job is to get hit by the 250+ lb players, so unless you wanna tell me that he is somehow going to hit me in such a way that he is going to hit me in such a way that will be more painful than a big guy slamming you in the stomach with the whole weight of his body and while running full speed, then I really hope the liquid katana oozing out of his pores will be enough to shield him
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