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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 3:22:02 GMT
As long as it functions really good.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 26, 2009 3:32:47 GMT
I have it on good authority that the Antioch is the best type XII ever made by anybody. that it even out-cuts and hits harder than my favorite sword (which is very impressive) and that it is also lighter and faster than my favorite. My favorite sword is an AT1429 that Shooter Mike modified heavily. he changed it from a very heavy type XIV with a long hilt to a heavy-ish type XII with a 4 inch grip and a balance point about 4 inches from the hilt that is extremely responsive and fast for it's weight of 2 pounds 13-ish ounces. for a while I was calling it my "Was 1429" but that was rather large and I didn't like it. I now refer to it as my MHAT (Mike Harris Angus Trim) and I like the way "eM-Hat" sounds when said. whatever it may be called once I got a proper single-bevel edge on it I found that it cuts through anything I put in front of it with very little effort and it isn't even particularly sharp (by my standards). the Antioch being a better cutter that hits harder and moves faster is a big deal. I have committed to buy one on that alone.
I completely understand Jonathan's problem of having more swords he wants to buy than he can. I could make an extremely long list of good swords I really want that are available right now. but I had to prioritize and the Antioch got the nod even though I won't see it until March or so.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 13:08:29 GMT
I am getting interested in the VA line now. I know that the swords themselves are not quite as good as those made by AT himself, but with the scabbard and belt, they seem like a great deal. I wish that I knew when the Templar is going to be released, because it looks like a good sword that I might like. How you you guys compare the VA swords to AT swords?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 13:51:00 GMT
So am I. I have loved anything related to the Crusades for a few years now, ever since I read "The Celtic Crusades" by Stephen R. Lawhead. It was a great book series, and I recommend that you read it if you like the crusades. I even have a Knights Templar ring, although it is a very cheap (and obviously fake). It has the red cross on a white background, and engraven around it is "Sicillum Militum Xpisti" which reads "the seal of the soldier of christ" in Latin. On the back "Templar" is engraven. I know that the real Knights Templar ring had their emblem on it, the two knights on one horse, but I think my ring is cool because I have always like the red cross/white background. Anyways, that's a little off-subject. The point is - The Ebon Paladin is not alone. My tie clip and cuff links match your ring. I've been a studying the Crusades for the past few years; there's lots of information on it, some of it good, some of it not so. Check out Dr. Steven Runciman's History of the Crusades; sort of dry but very informative. As with all historical documentation, research other sources - you can't trust just one, you know? I believe that the VA Templar will have the same blade as what's on their practical longsword (1313 blade) but I could be wrong; it doesn't matter, I'm getting it. As Sean said...I have a thing for the Crusades. He likes wolves. Everyone's got their something, right? What is this Antioch I'm hearing about?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 15:11:05 GMT
ATrim Prestige line with C. Fletcher. You have a thread in makers and manufacturers part of the forum.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 15:22:47 GMT
The Antioch is supposed to be an XII type sword that would have been used during the crusades, hence its name. It has crosses on the grip, and it is supposed to be the best performing XII type sword out there. I think that I heard it will cost somewhere around $700, probably without the scabbard. Ebon Paladin, now you have me even more interested in the Templar sword. Oh well, I will probably get the Legacy Line 1313 though. I might get the Templar cross engraved in the pommel, you never know. I want to get a wood scabbard with black leather. Nothing fancy, just somthing sturdy that I can wear. Does anyone know where I can get one?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 15:31:08 GMT
Oh right...I DID see that one; was worried about those crosses in the leather of the handle. A beauty of a sword to be sure...
As for scabbards, you may or may not know this, but a good one can cost as much as the sword in some cases. I thank Christian Fletcher and Brian of DBK - both very good at what they do. Either one can make you a custom wood-cored scabbard specific to your sword-in-hand...you can even tell them exactly what you want down to the design and layout and they can work with that. Or, and this is what I plan to do, you give them the idea and let them come up with something unique for you.
Either one, you can't go wrong. There are some others on the site, like YeOldeGaffer and Odingaard who have already put up tutorials on how to make your own scabbard, complete with the leather wrapping and designs if you so desire.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 15:48:42 GMT
I can't afford to buy a 250 dollar scabbard. Like I said, I don't want anything too fancy. I don't want a custom scabbard, but CF only offers the leather ones on his website unless you go custom, which like you said, cost almost as much as the sword. I can't make my own either, because I lack the necessary tools. The ones that VA uses on their signature line look great, and I'm sure that they aren't too expensive. They don't sell them seperately though, and I don't know if they would fit the 1313.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 16:06:48 GMT
Well, if you're looking for a basic scabbard, you may want to opt for buying the VA AT304S, which is VA's version of the AT1313. It is a good sword, really good sword, especially at its price point and it comes with a custom fitted wood cored leather scabbard as part of the price.
Weigh the options; an Atrim is an excellent sword, no matter what model you get- but if you think about it, a sword that performs at least at 80% of the Atrim for only half the cost (or even less) AND comes with a wood-cored scabbard specific to that sword and you just may change your mind.
I know I did. I wanted the AT1315 for some time...then I got ahold of a Custom tuned AT303S...suffice it to say, I didn't feel the need to have that Atrim anymore. The 1315 will run you something like $450 or $470 just for the sword; less than half the price ready to cut out of the box and I got, in my opinion, so much more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 16:15:16 GMT
It is proving to be a very difficult decision. Except that instead of getting the 304S, I would probably get the Kriegschwert or the Templar. I have my doubts about the VA line. That 20% might actually be worth it in the long run.
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Post by Sonny Suttles on Jun 26, 2009 17:19:33 GMT
I am amazed at the depth of this thread. This is an example of why SBG is so very useful to the sword community. Just a thought I felt like sharing.
Jonathan, you seem to be doing more research than most on your first sword. I admire that. Many people just jump in with whatever they see that first catches their attention.
Sonny
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Post by shadowhowler on Jun 26, 2009 17:26:32 GMT
So am I. I have loved anything related to the Crusades for a few years now, ever since I read "The Celtic Crusades" by Stephen R. Lawhead. It was a great book series, and I recommend that you read it if you like the crusades. I even have a Knights Templar ring, although it is a very cheap (and obviously fake). It has the red cross on a white background, and engraven around it is "Sicillum Militum Xpisti" which reads "the seal of the soldier of christ" in Latin. On the back "Templar" is engraven. I know that the real Knights Templar ring had their emblem on it, the two knights on one horse, but I think my ring is cool because I have always like the red cross/white background. Anyways, that's a little off-subject. The point is - The Ebon Paladin is not alone. Yeah... not a big fan of the Crusades myself... killing raping and pillaging in the name of god, not high on my list of good ideas. As to your thoughts about the VA line... it comes down to priorities. The Krieg might be just what your looking for... it felt a bit beefier then the regular VA Longsword, it's VERY attractive, and can be had, with wood cored leather covered scabbard and sword belt for around 400, which is about 150 less then a similar Atrim longsword without scabbard. You may miss the 20% in pure blade performance... but it's a balance question... is that 20% worth the the extra 100 - 150 dollars AND the scabbard AND the belt? You have a lot of options.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 18:02:56 GMT
And I am pretty darn sure you will not be disappointed with the Kreig's cutting ability. Atrims are great and worth every penny, but for your first sword I think it might be a good idea to go with the VA line. Good swords at a great price. Your next sword can be an Atrim. Yes, you will want more
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 26, 2009 18:14:52 GMT
this mythical 20% number comes from Shooter Mike's estimation just so everyone knows. I think most of us do know but Jonathan may not. now I'm trying to remember but I THOUGHT the 80% estimation was in regards to ONE PARTICULAR AT304s but it may not be. the AT303S (first generation anyway) was nowhere near 80% of a true Atrim. the new generation of AT303s sounds, to me to be MUCH closer to the original ATrim 1315.
either way the 304S is a very good sword for a p[roduction model. in fact, I can quote myself as saying "The Valiant Armory Practical series swords are the BEST production swords available for under $400, the fact that they are barely more than $200 in most cases makes them a no-brainer purchase for any budget-minded sword enthiusiast." I still believe this. I think the Kreig has similar quality though I have not touched one. I have no doubts that a begining swordsman, (or even an advanced one) would find a lot to love in any of the VA longswords be they Practical series or signature. they will not perform to the level of a true ATrim but they have their advantages and Shadowhowler covers them well. the V.A. signature and practical swords all (except for the early generation Castiles) come with a very good edge on them, and anyone who knows me knows I'm an edge geometry snob and that statement says a lot. I'll say this: the VA practical swords are the ONLY production European style swords I have ever owned, seen, or touched, that I felt were good enough to use right out of the box with no work from me at all. and of Katana brands only Hanwei has given me the same happy feeling right out of the box. there are brands out there that I don't know enough about to comment on, but I hope to narrow that gap more and more all the time.
I think you could really enjoy a VA signature Krieg or Practical Long sword, I'm not sure how much you would or would not miss the infamous 20% as that depends on you. some people will never know the difference, some people will find it almost intolerable.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 26, 2009 18:17:19 GMT
Well, if you're looking for a basic scabbard, you may want to opt for buying the VA AT304S, which is VA's version of the AT1313. It is a good sword, really good sword, especially at its price point and it comes with a custom fitted wood cored leather scabbard as part of the price. All very true, except the part about the AT-1313. It's my understanding that the AT-designed longsword blades on swords available from Valiant Armoury have, so far, been loosely based on that of the Legacy Line AT-1415. The VA swords are not exactly the same, and not interchangeable with respect to scabbards. But fairly close in design.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 23:46:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2009 23:52:36 GMT
I do plan on collecting more than one sword, but like I said earlier - I will only have this one sword for a long time. I really want the 1313, but it makes me sad that I will not have a scabbard or belt. I like the Kriegschwert better than the 1313 aesthetically, but I don't know if I want to sacrifice a better sword for a scabbard and belt. On one hand I have a great sword, and on the other hand I have a good sword, a good scabbard, and a belt to go with it. I will love cutting with the 1313, but I will miss not being able to strap it onto my side and going on an adventure. I could always buy the 1313 now, and get a scabbard and belt later. I don't want to pay $300 for a scabbard though, which is undoubtedly what a CF scabbard would cost me. I know that which ever thing I choose will make me happy, but sad in a way.
Again, thank you all for your invaluable assistance. And Sonny, I respect you for reading this thread and complimenting me when it would have been very easy to persuade me to go with your sword.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 27, 2009 3:21:00 GMT
Actually Jonathan, you are a little short on the scabbard estimate. Christian Fletcher told me that a basic wood core scabbard with metal chape starts at $400. starts. so yeah he does amazing work as seen on his web site but it doesn't come cheap. personally, I don't wear my swords anywhere so scabbards and belts are just not important to me. If you plan on going to a ren-fair or attending a function of some re-enactment/re-creation group wearing your beautiful sword, I would advise you to check the rules pertaining to live weapons. many places and groups do not allow them. but if you just want it to wear because you love it, then yeah, good deal go for it.
EDIT: Also, Sonny has done so many people on this forum so right that it would be almost wrong for me to not tell to buy one of his swords. one thing you can be sure of when you get a Valiant Armory sword: if (heaven forbid) anything IS wrong with it, Sonny will take care of you. he has proven his commitment to us many times. Sonny is a rare man in the business world. so if you decide to go that route you can rest easy about quality control. I think you will be happy either way. if you get the Atrim you will likely be so amazed by the quality of the sword that you tell yourself anything less is unthinkable and you'll be happy to give up the scabbard for performance. on the other hand if you get the V.A. you'll likely think: "Can a sword really be better than this? this amazing sword AND this really cool belt and scabbard? man, I got the good deal here. why would anyone want to pay all that extra for just a sword. ok maybe you won't think any of this, but you might. a first real sword is a very impressive thing, a first real good sword is even more so and all over again. to experience both at the same time. . . makes me wonder if this is how sword-snobs are made. not to say you will be one, but. . . just wondering.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2009 3:30:23 GMT
I would want to wear it because I think that pretending to be a warrior (just like a kid) would be fun. I live in an area that has fairly thick woods, and I would enjoy wandering through them with my sword at my side. Naturally, I can't do this unless I have a scabbard. I want the 1313 bad, but I can't pay 400 dollars for a scabbard. I would just ask CF to make me a plain wood scabbard, mabe even some cheap black leather, but I don't think that he would, at least not for cheap. I still don't trust the swords made in China. The scabbards and furniture on the signature line more than meet my needs, but the sword itself is what I am more concerned about. So there you have it - I am going to have to sacrifice one thing for another, unless I can somehow get a cheap scabbard. Like I said, I don't need anything fancy, just a wood scabbard would do. I don't understand how I will obtain this for a low price if the leather ones are $95.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 27, 2009 3:50:03 GMT
yeah leather sheaths aren't as cool. there's no suspension system to wear them with. you could tuck it under a belt on your blue-jeans but that just isn't the same. I'm sorry, but if I had a better answer on a cheap wood core scabbard other than learn to make your own, I'd be using that info myself.
Tom < who suddenly wants to learn to make scabbards
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