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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 0:55:44 GMT
well a friend of mine stopped by today and he wanted to mess around with the bokken, i realized he was holding it oddly and his hands were way too close to one another and i showed him how mine were, he was having a hard time holding it like that when i realized, my friend is left handed and he was trying to hold it with his right hand up higher than his left hand and i was thinking , thats how i hold a sword cuz im right handed, so i hold with my right hand higher, but if your left handed do you hold it with your left hand higher ??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 1:09:12 GMT
if its a euro sword hey go for it, jsa though is only done right handed regardless of being a righty or lefty
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 1:26:10 GMT
if its a euro sword hey go for it, jsa though is only done right handed regardless of being a righty or lefty not true, i have met a lefty iaidoka who wears his sword on the right. its mad seriously, its like looking in a mirror. heres the pic, hes in the front row.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 1:41:54 GMT
Despite of the fact that your classmate wears and uses his katana lefty style (and surprisingly your sensei allows him to do so), a left handed style and grip is not taught within normal JSA. Therefore, technically there is no correct grip for a lefty but a right handed one. In JSA, traditionally, southpaws would just have to learn how to fight right handed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 1:50:35 GMT
Despite of the fact that your classmate wears and uses his katana lefty style (and surprisingly your sensei allows him to do so), a left handed style and grip is not taught within normal JSA. Therefore, technically there is no correct grip for a lefty but a right handed one. In JSA, traditionally, southpaws would just have to learn how to fight right handed. This is the truth. I was even reading somewhere (and it was quoted on this board in another thread), that Japanese mothers would smack the left hand of a child that had the tendency to use that hand more than the other, requiring them to be right handed. It's all a mental thing anyhow...I mean think about it for a moment...why is it more natural for us right handers to use our left hand to guide the butt of a Japanese sword? It's all in our heads =). You'd be doing your friend a favor by making him use his right hand on top. I can guarantee if he ever goes for real training, they're almost invariably going to make him do so, and if he's already begun forming the wrong habit...it's going to be hard for him to break. Cris
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 2:56:12 GMT
OK, this kinda makes me angry. This is the 21st century, not the 18th! The reason left-handedness was discouraged in the past was mostly because of superstition and ignorance. Yes, I know it's possible to switch over if there's enough "motivation", but this guy never said he was interested in doing any formal JSA. He probably just wants to cut up some bottles. Let him do it left-handed for Pete's sake!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 2:58:54 GMT
ah i see thanks for the help guys, =P hmm i wont -make- him do it the other way but i'll let him know =) =P i dont force it, its nice to 'spar' with friends when they do things im not used to lol , holding the bokken underhand for example ... thats weird to fight agenst lol =P maybe i just suck with a bokken xD (p.s. i like to use two swords =P its cool )
btw cool pic =D i see the one wearing his sword on the right side, that is quite different
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 22, 2008 3:31:41 GMT
I agree, let him use his left hand but make sure he knows that traditionally it would not be allowed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 3:31:54 GMT
OK, this kinda makes me angry. This is the 21st century, not the 18th! The reason left-handedness was discouraged in the past was mostly because of superstition and ignorance. Yes, I know it's possible to switch over if there's enough "motivation", but this guy never said he was interested in doing any formal JSA. He probably just wants to cut up some bottles. Let him do it left-handed for Pete's sake! Hmm...good thing you getting angry (over some words on a screen?) doesn't make me angry eh? As far as 'making' him do anything...I don't exactly have a gun to his head or a knife to his throat. I gave him some advice based on my experience with left handed swordsmen in a JSA atmosphere. My own Sensei (he's left handed btw), will not teach left handed, nor does any he knows, it's simply NOT part of the art. I didn't make up the rule, but I've certainly got to live by it. Good thing I'm right handed. BUT, if I WERE left handed...and just wanted to 'go out and cut some bottles', I'd probably still try to do it the 'right' way, as recognized by most of the known organizations teaching that type sword art...'just in case' I ever wanted formal education. Pretty simple concept really. I gave him some advice to try to make sure his horizons stay open for the future (and save him some work in the long run. You just somehow managed to get offended by it. The original poster asked 'do you hold it with your left hand higher?' Being as how he's holding a Japanese style blade, the answer, simply...is no. Cris
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Dec 22, 2008 4:09:09 GMT
OK, this kinda makes me angry. This is the 21st century, not the 18th! The reason left-handedness was discouraged in the past was mostly because of superstition and ignorance. Yes, I know it's possible to switch over if there's enough "motivation", but this guy never said he was interested in doing any formal JSA. He probably just wants to cut up some bottles. Let him do it left-handed for Pete's sake! Hmm...good thing you getting angry (over some words on a screen?) doesn't make me angry eh? As far as 'making' him do anything...I don't exactly have a gun to his head or a knife to his throat. I gave him some advice based on my experience with left handed swordsmen in a JSA atmosphere. My own Sensei (he's left handed btw), will not teach left handed, nor does any he knows, it's simply NOT part of the art. I didn't make up the rule, but I've certainly got to live by it. Good thing I'm right handed. BUT, if I WERE left handed...and just wanted to 'go out and cut some bottles', I'd probably still try to do it the 'right' way, as recognized by most of the known organizations teaching that type sword art...'just in case' I ever wanted formal education. Pretty simple concept really. I gave him some advice to try to make sure his horizons stay open for the future (and save him some work in the long run. You just somehow managed to get offended by it. The original poster asked 'do you hold it with your left hand higher?' Being as how he's holding a Japanese style blade, the answer, simply...is no. Cris I have to agree... Japanese swordsmanship is right-handed. The occasional practioner which does so left handed is an oddball exception and would not be welcome in most koryu... Might as well get angry at the tradition of wearing a wedding ring on the left-hand...
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Post by YlliwCir on Dec 22, 2008 4:18:33 GMT
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
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slav
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Post by slav on Dec 22, 2008 5:29:14 GMT
OK, this kinda makes me angry. This is the 21st century, not the 18th! The reason left-handedness was discouraged in the past was mostly because of superstition and ignorance. Yes, I know it's possible to switch over if there's enough "motivation", but this guy never said he was interested in doing any formal JSA. He probably just wants to cut up some bottles. Let him do it left-handed for Pete's sake! You're right, this is the 21st century, not the 18th... So why the heck are people still using swords at all??? Because they are concerned with tradition. And since they are concerned with tradition, then they should hold their katana right-handed. It's a pretty simple concept, really, and nothing that you should get angry over. Now, I have to agree that if this guy is just looking to get into some casual cutting for fun, then he can hold the blade however he wants. Good point, as many of the finer aspets of JSA (or any other formalized sword art) are practiced for the sake of tradition, and are not physically required in order to cut or wield a sword effectively. In fact, I am a big fan of informal cutting styles as well as formal training. The JSA formality discussion was brought up after the OP. Don't get angry just because people are trying to clarify the issue....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 6:04:42 GMT
"JSA Shmayashay" that's what the great mushasi would have said, he who mastered the art of fighting with two swords and wrote the book of the five rings, One great Ronin who didn't follow tradition!
............SanMarc
I'm ambidextrous by the way and can flip a sword to the other hand if I want.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 6:08:34 GMT
"JSA Shmayashay" that's what the great mushasi would have said, he who mastered the art of fighting with two swords and wrote the book of the five rings, One great Ronin who didn't follow tradition! ............SanMarc I'm ambidextrous by the way and can flip a sword to the other hand if I want. Ahhh! But I bet you $50 that the great Musashi learned with his right hand first lol. I highly doubt he just started inventing his additional style(s) without having learned all of the basics in a more traditional manner =). Also, I agree about learning both hands. I sort of intended to do something like this myself down the road (maybe)...but not until I've mastered the basics, in a traditional manner. Cris
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slav
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Post by slav on Dec 22, 2008 6:14:48 GMT
That's all well and good. But bear in mind that the great Musashi would also take cheap-shots, and intentionally show up way late for duels just to un-nerve his opponents so he could win.
Off topic, but I used to be a HUGE Musashi fan. Read the entire book and all. But as I grow older, he seems like more and more of a goon to me. ...still the best novel I ever read, though.
Anyways: Bottomline is that traditional JSA is practiced right-handed, but there are infinite ways to propel a blade towards its target.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 6:15:58 GMT
Arrgghh! I think your right! (he may have been influenced by the Florentine style the Portuguese used) But the Bushido code was written to constrict the Samurai (To serve) when Nippon cut it self of from the world, the Ronin were discouraged and had to settle down with a master, I could go on, but I type with two fingers, so I'm slow, but the info is out there on the Samurai life and culture.
........SanMarc.
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slav
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Post by slav on Dec 22, 2008 6:30:11 GMT
I have read and/or own much of that material on the Samurai life and culture.
You kinda have it backwards. Samurai were not Ronin who were forced to settle down; Ronin were former Samurai who became masterless. If you look into the history of the Samurai, the Ronin ideal came into prominence during Japan's time of unity, when warriors were no longer needed and the Samurai as a class began to die out. You might want to check out your references again; especially your dates and times...
But again, this is hella off-topic.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 6:48:00 GMT
Ah, your right, it's been a long time since I've studded this subject, but back on topic, Ya, if you want to go up against something different, then a lefty or switch hitter will give you the challenge, just remember to let him know that if he decides to train ells where, he will have to learn the do it right handed.....SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 10:14:24 GMT
...This is the 21st century, not the 18th! ...this guy never said he was interested in doing any formal JSA. He probably just wants to cut up some bottles... Agreed. Since this is the 21st century and since he isn't interested in JMA, that man may like to cut bottles with a laser-cutter instead. Or a chainsaw. Sorry, guys: a katana, even a bad copy of a katana is still a kind of traditional weapon and has to be treated with respect. That means also: use it in a traditional and proper way - which includes proper way of holding it.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 22, 2008 15:21:47 GMT
ok well here we go: the Bujinkan federation teaches a mix of nine differnt martial arts some of which date back to Sengoku Jidai (hopefully I spelled that close to right)or the era of civil war before the Shogunate was established and settled things down some. ok so that places their teachings well into tradition and they teach a few techniques using a katana with the left hand or in an upside-down grip. these are not "use them all the time" normal practices but they have been in use for a long time so there is a basis to argue that a katana may be used in the left hand and still be used correctly to tradition. you just need to decide WHICH tradition to follow.
I think there are lots of ways to respect a weapon and they don't require it to be used right handed.
SAFETY POINT! if the guy is left handed and has no training cajoling him into using it right handed is possibly dangerous since he has less fine control that way. for casual cutting one should use the hand orientation they are most comfortable and have the best control with. safety first folks.
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