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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2008 6:00:12 GMT
I've always wanted a Scythe, not like the kind for cutting crops and grass and such (i have one of those, really old hand made by my half brothers grandfather ..totaly covered in rust too ) always wanted a cool scythe that someone would think of when ever someone mentioned a scythe as a weapon. sadly it seems hard to get a good one =P
also i kinda think a scythe would be really hard to use for battle due to the fact that the weight would be odd ... unless some how you fixed it to the point where it had some kind of weight on the other end of the pole to balence it out ...
so what do you think about a Scythe as a weapon , cool and effective if built right and used properly (cuz we all know the attack possiblitys with a curved blade on a pole are almost endless =P tho ...lacks in the defence department ) or just a cool idea in video games and tv shows and nothing more.
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Post by rammstein on Dec 8, 2008 6:04:42 GMT
If a scythe was an effective weapon it would have been used as such historically in war, excepting random incidences of civilian usage which must have existed.
History is our best judge as to whether or not something was an effective weapon.
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Post by 293master293 on Dec 8, 2008 6:25:17 GMT
Yes Ramm, you are right. But new weapon technology is always coming out. Just because nobody thought of something, doesn't mean it wouldn't be an affective weapon. Just think, the Japanese Kama is basically just a very small scythe, and those are really effective weapons.
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Post by Erick R. on Dec 8, 2008 21:36:13 GMT
Yes Ramm, you are right. But new weapon technology is always coming out. Just because nobody thought of something, doesn't mean it wouldn't be an affective weapon. Just think, the Japanese Kama is basically just a very small scythe, and those are really effective weapons. ... and "MUCH" smaller man. hehe edit : The scythe is hardly new technology.....
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 8, 2008 21:40:11 GMT
I'm not sure how scythes became such popular weapons in the fantasy (ie. video games, anime, etc.) realm, but they sure caught on. Even I've found myself searching for a good "weapon" scythe. Not had any luck with it, though.
Heck, one of my favorite characters from one of my favorite shows (I have quite a few of each...) has a weapon that's some crazy mixture of science/technology and magic that can be either an axe, a scythe, or a friggin' huge sword, all with blades of whatever magical energy...thing, granted, but there it is. Funny part is the weapon's name is Bardiche. No, they aren't calling it a badiche, the item is named via it's programming, Bardiche.
Oh, anime~
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Post by Erick R. on Dec 8, 2008 21:47:40 GMT
www.scythesupply.com/in case you wanted to try some modifications. Note: Scythe "blades" were used in war, just the blades.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2008 21:12:26 GMT
If a scythe was an effective weapon it would have been used as such historically in war, excepting random incidences of civilian usage which must have existed. History is our best judge as to whether or not something was an effective weapon. I don’t know, there is certainly a history of using agricultural implants as weapons or the inspiration for weapons, such as the billhook. you could orientate a scythe vertically and attach it to a spear, it may make a reasonable pole arm. You might need a thicker blade then on your normal scythe. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guisarmeen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voulge
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Post by Erick R. on Dec 9, 2008 21:58:22 GMT
Well, I meant the blade were used still attached to poles, chariot wheels, etc. etc. but Not used as a traditional scythe used for agriculture.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2008 22:51:03 GMT
It would be possible to use a scythe as a weapon in war, its just that it was not found to be practical so no one bothered to train and develop it as a weapon . If you were to practice with it and develop a fighting style you could probably use it as such.
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Post by Erick R. on Dec 10, 2008 1:38:50 GMT
Well, that's the entire point... that it wasn't practical, making it unsuitable for war. I could develop a fighting style using a rake... that doesn't mean it would ever have been suitable as a weapon of war. Of course both could be used to kill.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2008 1:48:03 GMT
There was the Dacian Falx, and the related Rhomphaia of the Thracians. They're rather like scythe-blades mounted to two-handed hafts, and some historians suggest that they developed from the sickle. Trajan's legions even introduced new armor to deal specifically with them, and the Romans didn't introduce military innovations for just anybody.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FalxMarc
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Post by rammstein on Dec 10, 2008 2:11:32 GMT
Yes Ramm, you are right. But new weapon technology is always coming out. Just because nobody thought of something, doesn't mean it wouldn't be an affective weapon. Just think, the Japanese Kama is basically just a very small scythe, and those are really effective weapons. Kamas are effective weapons? I'm afraid I must disagree, or at least to a certain extent. Just because one can be trained in the use of kama and can kill someone doesn't make them effective. History would agree with this - I can't think of a single encounter where a large proportion of a trained army used kamas. There are plenty of weapons that have evolved from agricultural purposes, suc as the flail. As mentioned above by several people, there are weapons slightly similar to a scythe that still are effective in war. But the scyte, as an unmodified agricultural tool, is not an effective weapon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2008 2:35:30 GMT
I've handled a few of them. The hafts are to heavy and unbalanced to make an effective weapon. Almost all of the weight is down towards the blade. The blade could be turned into an effective polearm (lots of instances of this, particularly among the French and Polish, some in Colonial America too, I believe). A little modification to the blade could turn it into an effective polearm or sword. I've got a Dacian falx, it's a wicked cutter. The makers and I have done a fair bit of destructive testing, and It's a nasty blade. I've since stripped of the hardwood scales in lieu of a more practical (and comfortable) leather spiral-wrap. It's 5160 with bronze spacers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2008 3:35:55 GMT
The problem with using a scythe blade for a weapon is that it's also not balanced as a sword. The blades are generally made thin, with long, forged/stamped risers to keep their shape. What might look like a fuller on many is visible on the opposite side as a raised surface.
Also, the edges are not made to deal with the targets that a sword cuts. The edges are made softer, so sharpening is a quick and easy process in the field(where one could be quite a distance from a workshop, with only a small stone in their pocket). Major sharpening wasn't done through material removal, but peening to thin the edge.
On order to be an effective weapon, the blade would have to be forged from scratch, from sword-worthy steel, and would essentially JUST be a sword with an opposite curve. A scythe by technicality, but nothing like the agricultural tool.
I have an old, rusty scythe blade I found in the woods(found tucked into the makeshift woodshed by an old hunting cabin, unused since the mid 70's). The edge is thin, and made for cutting thin, soft targets like grasses and weeds. Though sitting and rusting for 30 some years, it's still sharp enough to be used for it's intended purpose.
The geometry, though, would be awful for trying to pass through a thick target like flesh or Tatami. I actually saw some amateur smith had made one years ago, removing a portion of the blade to allow for a grip, and carving a simple horse/dragon into the angles portion of the tang(the part that actually secures to the haft). Though a novel idea, the average scythe blade just would not make for an effective weapon.
And as a scythe itself, it would only be effective if you're enemy was really scrawny, and had no qualms about sitting still while you attempt to harvest them, literally threshing at their ankles because that's the natural motion of using one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2008 4:21:35 GMT
Agricultural scythes are nothing like kama (which have more in common with the sickle). A scythe would be a terrible weapon. If you have ever seen someone harvest with a scythe you will understand why. I'm not saying you couldn't kill a man with one (they are good at killing snakes that sit up before they strike) but it is unwieldy as an agricultural implement, trying to perform precise attacks with one would be an exercise in futility. Scythe blades are also fairly heavy which makes it even worse. You also need to continue the physical dynamic that a scythe is built to perform. In other words for a scythe to be a useful weapon you need that sweeping motion. Kama are good scythe like weapons but most of the swords you see with a reversed edge have a thick spine for applying the necessary weight to cut through whatever you are striking.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2008 2:51:40 GMT
wow lots of great thoughts going here. i think i'm going to have to figure out a way to effectively use a scythe (on tatami and water bottles lol) =D first i gotta get me a good scythe , if i ever do i'll post vids =)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2008 14:33:07 GMT
Actually I would be hesitant to say a scythe is no good weapon. My grandparents come from a really secluded town in the Romanian Carpathians were they were still using scythes in their day. I remember them speaking with great respect of the scythes because it has happened more than once that somebody cut off his fingers when trying to sharpen them. A scythe therefore always held an aura of wicked cutting power for me, of course the blade is rather fragile. And there I think is one of the two reasons scythes never really saw war use. 1) The blade would have problems with armor and soldiers tend to have their vital parts protected. 2) You need a lot of free space around yourself to swing the scythe without harming your companions. Like the rather long swords of the Celts forced the warriors to stand in wide lines, a unit armed with scythes would stand wide apart from each other, easily overwhelmed between two strikes. While this makes the scythe unusable for war it doesn't automatically makes it unusable as a weapon. Actually the joke about swinging the scythe at the ankles of your enemies brought an image to my mind. As the Pu Dao in China was used to dismount a rider by chopping of his horses legs, a scythe could do exactly the same deed. Of course I have no historical verification for this, but why shouldn't a peasant have the same idea when he prepares himself for an uprising
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Post by rammstein on Dec 13, 2008 17:58:13 GMT
Actually I would be hesitant to say a scythe is no good weapon. My grandparents come from a really secluded town in the Romanian Carpathians were they were still using scythes in their day. I remember them speaking with great respect of the scythes because it has happened more than once that somebody cut off his fingers when trying to sharpen them. A scythe therefore always held an aura of wicked cutting power for me, of course the blade is rather fragile. And there I think is one of the two reasons scythes never really saw war use. 1) The blade would have problems with armor and soldiers tend to have their vital parts protected. 2) You need a lot of free space around yourself to swing the scythe without harming your companions. Like the rather long swords of the Celts forced the warriors to stand in wide lines, a unit armed with scythes would stand wide apart from each other, easily overwhelmed between two strikes. While this makes the scythe unusable for war it doesn't automatically makes it unusable as a weapon. Actually the joke about swinging the scythe at the ankles of your enemies brought an image to my mind. As the Pu Dao in China was used to dismount a rider by chopping of his horses legs, a scythe could do exactly the same deed. Of course I have no historical verification for this, but why shouldn't a peasant have the same idea when he prepares himself for an uprising Interesting thought and I agree with the last part. I think a peasant WOULD have that thought indeed, but not a professional soldier. +1 for a good point.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2008 21:25:09 GMT
Thanks for the Karma, Rammstein.
I tried to think about the scythe as an improvised weapon, not a weapon of war. I mean, Ronin is trying to find out if he can cut our beloved enemy the water bottles. Not trying to get an army of alternative weapon nuts together to fight in ranks with scythes... even though this would make a pretty cool picture.
And in the end it all boils down to the fact that you can kill a human with nearly everything, so why not a scythe.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 3:08:18 GMT
I agree that a scythe would make a sad weapon but I also agree that they are cool-looking. I found this one on this sight- ollinsworddesign.com/osd-contemporary.html#EvolutionFor something that's pretty much a decoration, I think that's a crazy price but it sure is a beauty Check it out,(if you're still there.)
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