Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 8:05:22 GMT
Not to put any dampers on the scythe enthusiasm but from what I have experienced of scythes I am not sure they are quite cut out for "legging" horses. The will cut water bottles especially if you can get them as sharp as the good old boy farmers. Those scythes were enough to chop off fingers accidentally, I think that the scythe is the most wickedly sharp implement I have ever encountered.
|
|
|
Post by kidcasanova on Dec 16, 2008 0:29:15 GMT
If a scythe was an effective weapon it would have been used as such historically in war, excepting random incidences of civilian usage which must have existed. History is our best judge as to whether or not something was an effective weapon. If everyone only looked to history, we'd never have progressed past the stone age, and the Earth would still be the flat, center of the universe. Looking to the past to see what can work is one thing, but that doesnt mean one cannot innovate and expand upon existing work and theories. I just think your quick jump to "look at history" was unneeded when Ronin specifically said he wasn't looking for a historical agricultural scythe.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 16, 2008 0:34:38 GMT
If a scythe was an effective weapon it would have been used as such historically in war, excepting random incidences of civilian usage which must have existed. History is our best judge as to whether or not something was an effective weapon. If everyone only looked to history, we'd never have progressed past the stone age, and the Earth would still be the flat, center of the universe. Looking to the past to see what can work is one thing, but that doesnt mean one cannot innovate and expand upon existing work and theories. I just think your quick jump to "look at history" was unneeded when Ronin specifically said he wasn't looking for a historical agricultural scythe. Apparently the point flew right over your head. When looking at what was effective in the age of bladed weapons, one MUST assume that the warriors of old only used what was most effective. If a scythe was not used as a weapon, then OBVIOUSLY it was not effective. Too often people look at weapons for their coolness factor and not what actually works. QED.
|
|
|
Post by kidcasanova on Dec 16, 2008 1:24:18 GMT
I think you missed the point. I wasn't snarking at you or attempting to start something, but of course you invariably disregard that in favor of "I'm right you just didnt get my point."
If you notice, I actually agreed with what you were saying (what's that? Gasp!), I simply didn't think it was pertinent to the request made by the original poster. Like I said, he knew they were historically flimsy and ineffective. His request was for one that did not have these downfalls.
The Kama was brought up, which I agree is pretty far from a scythe, though some principles remain the same. And yet you virtually threw it in the posters face and said it wasnt applicable because a huge outfit of soldiers weren't fitted with them? When was the last time a massive amount of the US military was equipped with RPG's? Doesn't make them less effective simply because every single soldier didn't have one.
You admitted a person trained with a kama could kill a man with it. How is that not effective if he's trained to do it? A sword is an effective weapon, but an untrained man will not effectively kill a man with it.
I got your point a lot better than you'd imagine. It's just your attitude that gets me, the whole "holier-than-thou" thing you've got going on. I like your posts for the most part man, especially when they contain relevant information (because you are knowledgeable). But have some humility and modesty every now and then. The guy wasn't even asking about a historical piece.
I even used a smiley so you'd know I was just a light-hearted jab. But of course, that flew right over your head.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 6:08:26 GMT
sits back with popcorn
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 16, 2008 6:19:12 GMT
One can be killed by too much oxygen. That doesn't make oxygen overdose an effective way to kill someone in hand to hand combat. If the scyth was an effective weapon on the battlefiled...then damn, I think it might actually have seen use in organized armies.
An untrained person can'tkill effectively with a sword? ROFLCOPTER.
He asked if it was effective.
I said look to history.
End of story. This conversation is over. If all you want to do is pick fights, then I'm afraid you won't be too successful in your little endeavor. Good day.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 6:26:26 GMT
Funny that any time Ramm can't win an argument he tucks his tail between his legs and runs away. Step up to the plate mate.
Actually an untrained person can't kill as effectively as someone with the training, most untrained people if you gave them a sword swing it like a baseball bat.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 16, 2008 7:13:48 GMT
Funny that any time Ramm can't win an argument he tucks his tail between his legs and runs away. Step up to the plate mate That's a rather novel approach. I enter arguments I know are worthwhile. This argument was thrusted upon me, I did not start it - And because it's a mindless piece of drivel of a conflict, I see no reason to continue. I've alreay spelled out my point clearly enough for anyone to read as long as they have a desire to. And frankly, I'm right. call me close minded, but in this case I'm not willing to entertain the idea that I'm 100% incorrect. And if I'm not willing to entertain this idea, then I see no need to participate in this argument because I know that it will only lead to bad feelings and start a flame war. Now, if you consider my idea of avoiding unecessary conflict to be running away with my tail between my legs...then I'm sorry, but that says a lot about you more than me. If you want to continue this argument, please do so in PM. We are outright spamming at this point.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 7:48:38 GMT
Calm down mate, I am just yankin' ya chain, take a joke mate.
|
|
|
Post by septofclansinclair on Dec 16, 2008 7:50:46 GMT
The last 4 posts (at least) should have been in PM. Knock it off, guys, and keep to the original topic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 10:15:54 GMT
So getting back to scythes. The mechanics of cutting through a water bottle with a scythe might prove more difficult than you think, whether you are using a straight shaft or a traditional ag shaft I might prove extremely hard to align the cut properly which could cause some issues. A short scythe with a short scythe blade might cut it. Oh and here is a picture of a unit with war scythes;
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2008 1:28:41 GMT
WOW, bloodwraith that's a funny/cool picture!
I've never seen that weapon before. Do you know the history behind it ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2008 13:58:45 GMT
I was skeptical, but I guess scythes really WERE used in an armed unit... of polish peasants. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scytheI wouldn't want to fight against that.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 20, 2008 3:35:07 GMT
Looks to me like it's heavily modified from a scythe, to the point of me question whether or not it could even be called a scythe. It's essentially just another glaive variant, and I think we're all in agreement about the effectiveness of glaives.
|
|
|
Post by kidcasanova on Dec 20, 2008 15:41:54 GMT
It appears (and I could be wrong, hey) that the only real modification is the remounting of the blade at a more effective angle. I believe this was your biggest concern, but it might have been someone else that brought it up Ramm (sorry if that's the case). Also someone mentioned blade integrity. I believe if it was used, then the blade was at least effective, though I'd agree it would not be effective enough to replace more widely-used infantry weapons.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 20, 2008 19:14:25 GMT
Exactly, but then wouldn't it be rather far removed from a scythe? I think that scythe is given it's name only when its design can accomplish it's task - harvesting wheat. I don't think these modified scythes would be terribly good at that...? Another major difference is the straight shaft.
I'd call these weapons"scythe inspired" but not actually scythes. Their use bypeasants suggest that that was all that they had to work with and made the effective weapons possible. If scythes were terribly effective, wouldn't thesepolish peasants have just used unmodified versions?
|
|
|
Post by brotherbanzai on Dec 20, 2008 23:41:59 GMT
I just came across these and thought they would fit well into this post. The first one is from a Paulus Hector Mair text. Though I don't study Mair in my longsword training I know some do. Also, I'm not familiar with this Mair text so I have no idea of the context. The second one is a guy using a scythe as if it's a staff or spear like weapon.
I have no opinion on their effectiveness as a weapon but always thought they were cool and could see engineering one as a usable (though probably somewhat unwieldy) weapon.
|
|
|
Post by sparky on Dec 22, 2008 22:47:28 GMT
Who would of thought??? Very interesting posts.
I was going to add I have used a scythe, on my Grandparents farm, and I would rather use a long heavy stick as a weapon. Because I don't think the "enemy" would really care to let me get into the rhythm of the tool "scythe" kwim. Can't go to fast and you can't go to slow, at least with plant life.
Anyway thanks for the post I got to see some cool stuff!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 0:28:13 GMT
I've always wanted a Scythe, not like the kind for cutting crops and grass and such (i have one of those, really old hand made by my half brothers grandfather ..totaly covered in rust too ) always wanted a cool scythe that someone would think of when ever someone mentioned a scythe as a weapon. sadly it seems hard to get a good one =P also i kinda think a scythe would be really hard to use for battle due to the fact that the weight would be odd ... unless some how you fixed it to the point where it had some kind of weight on the other end of the pole to balence it out ... so what do you think about a Scythe as a weapon , cool and effective if built right and used properly (cuz we all know the attack possiblitys with a curved blade on a pole are almost endless =P tho ...lacks in the defence department ) or just a cool idea in video games and tv shows and nothing more. why do i get the feeling that you are, like me a frustrated buffy fan looking for an inexpensive and practical alternative to some cheap replica of her fantasy battle axe most famously named "The Scythe".
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Dec 23, 2008 3:36:27 GMT
Wow, actual historic documentation, eh? Intriguing. Some rather humorous stuff in there, too. I'm getting the feeling the fellow in the second video appears to have a sort of Chinese influence on his movements, and perhaps even attire... Just a feeling I get, but I wonder how far off I am? I'm really quite curious to the origin of his movements. For all I know, everything is completely original... Sure enough he doesn't seem to be having any problems handling that thing, and I don't see much variation from original design in the manuscripts shown, either. Definitely some stuff for some of us to think about.
|
|