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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2009 2:52:52 GMT
You know, I was thinking, if you put a smaller scythe blade on a tear-drop cross-section staff (say, around 24 inches) with a completely wedge cross-section, that could actually work really well. Especially if you put a counterweight on the end and a very small hammer head on the other side of the blade. You could use it sort of like a really really long poll spike but with the ability to cut with a hooking motion. Just a thought. Also, in response to an earlier post, I'd have to disagree and say that the kama WAS and effective weapon. My friend trains with a pair and they're really really nasty close quarters blades. I get the impression that they were a fairly specialized weapon though, maybe accounting for their relatively unknown nature.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2009 12:12:17 GMT
Hmm Ramm just can't stand to be wrong and even when given evidence he will still argue til he is blue in the face.
Bro B: the video of the sickle scythe is just someone adapting naginata/bo techniques and using a scythe.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2009 22:12:01 GMT
I'm getting the feeling the fellow in the second video appears to have a sort of Chinese influence on his movements, and perhaps even attire... Just a feeling I get, but I wonder how far off I am? I'm really quite curious to the origin of his movements. For all I know, everything is completely original... Sure enough he doesn't seem to be having any problems handling that thing, and I don't see much variation from original design in the manuscripts shown, either. Definitely some stuff for some of us to think about. He's wearing a Tang (the shirt) and what I have only found to be called "China Dolls" in English (the shoes). Picture's too grainy to tell about the pants, but I'll bet the match the rest. The movements are from the Bo staff. I would think that basing the movements on a quarterstaff might be more effective due to weight and (lack of) speed and handling.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 9:57:19 GMT
the grim reaper doesnt seem to have any problem with the scythe.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 5:59:10 GMT
Kama, I've read, are actually unmodified traditional asian farming implements, turned weapon of war. You don't see armies carrying Kama because they're close-quarter weapons, not battlefield weapons, and there is a big difference between what we see warriors use on the battlefield, and what assassins use in the confined space of a building. Personally, I wouldn't want to use a greatsword or a polearm in a hallway when I don't know what door my enemy is behind.
As far as farm-tool-turned-weapon, I've also read of Ninja using things along the lines of large hedge-trimmers (much like giant scissors) as a weapon. These were mostly used in attack-from-disguise situations, but some suggest (not sure if I believe this part) that they could be used to twist a sword from a samurai's hands and then, easily take out said samurai with a swift thrust to the face. (Face part yes, disarm part, maybe not, though I've never tried).
The door for weapons of war is wide open, Just because a weapon isn't used on a battlefield, does not by any means imply that it was not a common weapon. I say that a properly counterweighted scythe could be taken seriously as a weapon, not just a tool, and actually, I have been interested in making one for some time.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2009 19:58:20 GMT
i agree with the greatsword/polearms thing indoors, thats just common sense. but seriously a scythe, it has an edge on the inside of the blade only, plus, said edge is facing towards you, the wielder, it has a rediculous number of disadvantages, one being that you cannot thrust with it, only swing, and once you have swung, if you miss and come back with a back swing, you are effectively going to...in the best circumstances smack them with a stick......how much damage is that going to do? basically none because if the person you are fighting has any kind of combat experiance at all hes going to evade your first swing and then just hack your pole in half, rendering you helpless. there just isnt enough directional control (straight staff, or curved cultural staff) to ever be able to effectively use a scythe unless u did what the poor people did and remount the blade straight. why do you think they did it? because a scythe is a $#*tty weapon. i'd laugh at someone trying to attack me with a scythe, that would be like the easiest weapon to avoid and disarm someone using it. im not saying at all that you couldnt kill the crap out of someone with it, just that its EXTREMELY impractical
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2009 4:39:04 GMT
You understand the downfalls of the scythe as a combat weapon, but you fail to understand how the same basic disadvantages apply to that ridiculous "claymore of carnage" thing?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2009 16:53:37 GMT
How do you figure the edge is facing you? Traditionally speaking yes, but if applied as a weapon you would wield it differently. You can thrust with a scythe, the same way you thrust with a quarterstaff, you use a scythe the same way you would use a bo staff or a quarter staff, same principle although a scythe blade would be most effective for hooking. You underestimate the damage a good staff can do, there is a reason that peasants with quarter staffs were feared and why the staff in many martial arts is considered the king of weapons. I am hearing a great deal of inexperienced blah blah, I can tell you for a fact that it is much harder to hack through a pole than the movies make it out to be, especially considering a weapon like a staff or spear or scythe should always be in motion. No the scythe is an extremely good weapon if you use it right, the proper application for the scythe would be much like the ge used in ancient china which was effectively a scythe. If you use the scythe for hooking limbs and necks and such it would be highly effective. Easiest weapon to avoid and disarm? Not sure what planet you live on but I would say that because of the unpredictable nature of using a scythe or fighting one it would be anything but easy. I find it rather rich that you of all people are commenting of the impracticalities of weapons, that is just funny
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2009 7:48:48 GMT
You understand the downfalls of the scythe as a combat weapon, but you fail to understand how the same basic disadvantages apply to that ridiculous "claymore of carnage" thing? completely untrue, that blade is double edged and has double hooks, you can swing it more efficiently than a single edge blade because you dont have to completly flip the edge orientantion to make a follow up or a back stroke cut. its simple logic and its much smoother and less tireing and follow up cuts, thrusts, or parry/hooking/disarming is easy due to the six inch spikes on the hilt, once you get in a clinch and thieir blade slides down to your ricasso, say they try to stab you, all you have to do is twist the weapon out of the way while at the same time hacking their midsection or legs out while still maintaining safe distance from them. im not an idoit that just swings a huge slab of steel around. i know what im doing from experience and practice, i love bo staffs, i never said anything particularly bad towards it except that, basically IMO a bo staff compared to a big sword is way less lethal, and dude, bloodwraith, no offense man, but i grew up with a machete and a hand axe, there isnt a bo staff i could not hack through. especially with a big sword. i have a claymore/greatsword i made and i split logs with it a foot long and 5 inches around. are you seriously trying to tell me you could take a guy in platemail with a greatsword, you, unarmored with a 5 ft quarterstaff? i didnt say a staff wasnt effective. if it was a length of good thick walled pipe with say a big trailer hitch ball welded to each end for damage maximization, then your talking about standing a chance. the all steel construction IMO makes all the difference.
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Post by randomnobody on May 17, 2009 16:15:46 GMT
I don't know about all that...but I think I'll not get involved in this one.
Suffice to say the argument is old but will never be done.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2009 22:41:45 GMT
i didnt mean you cant thrust with it, just that you cannot score a stabbing impale that way
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Post by randomnobody on May 30, 2009 23:23:22 GMT
You could. Itld be tricky, and not something one would necessarily want to do with any weapon, but I imagine it could be done.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2009 4:52:28 GMT
Just saw this video of a German group demonstrating some of Mair's scythe techniques, thought it would be relevant to this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2009 19:02:02 GMT
So cool. I want one.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 20:40:29 GMT
why would the guy in white attack the right side of the red shirt man? thats the strong side where his scythe is positioned, why not swing at his side that would take longer to maneuver his weapon around to block. Oh, thats right, these guys choreographed the whole thing. none of that semprini would happen in a real fight. the scythe is not a good weapon. face it. unless its all steel, the handle shaft is going to break after repeated bashing and blocking of other weapons. he used the only metal part on the whole thing only for a tiny second while he "pulled" or "hooked" the other guy over on the ground. thats the only time the metal ever made contact with the other combatant. A skilled swordsman with a greatsword would have no trouble at all pwning someone with a scythe, scythes are limited in the ways and directions it can be swung, blocked with, and deal effective damage. just use a poleaxe with a long backspike.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 22:19:03 GMT
why would the guy in white attack the right side of the red shirt man? thats the strong side where his scythe is positioned, why not swing at his side that would take longer to maneuver his weapon around to block. Oh, thats right, these guys choreographed the whole thing. none of that semprini would happen in a real fight. the scythe is not a good weapon. face it. unless its all steel, the handle shaft is going to break after repeated bashing and blocking of other weapons. he used the only metal part on the whole thing only for a tiny second while he "pulled" or "hooked" the other guy over on the ground. thats the only time the metal ever made contact with the other combatant. A skilled swordsman with a greatsword would have no trouble at all pwning someone with a scythe, scythes are limited in the ways and directions it can be swung, blocked with, and deal effective damage. just use a poleaxe with a long backspike. Yawn. It's not a bout "Is a scythe better than a sword?" It's about the merits of a scythe as a weapon, and it has some. Maybe not as versatile as a sword, but then again, not many things are. Your point about having a wooden shaft is not valid, because history shows the substantial amount of pole weapons - most of which were made using a wooden shaft, and wood striking an un-armored opponent can still be brutal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2009 6:54:29 GMT
Wood striking an armoured opponent can be brutal too, if you know how and where to strike.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2009 16:50:06 GMT
i never said wood was not or could not be "brutal" to hit someone with, ive been smoked in the face with a wooden baseball bat. did it hurt? @$%^ yes it hurt! i didnt say it simply could not inflict damage, i said it was not as durable as steel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2009 19:13:03 GMT
Wood's also lighter than steel; when you're talking about a polearm, 6' or better, all-steel construction would make it unwieldy at best. You have to realize, making it hollow probably wasn't an option so a solid steel pipe at that length, even w/out any counterweights like a blade and ball end, would've been ridiculously heavy. Not to mention costly to make- steel was more scarce than it is now.
A scythe was a farming tool that got 'conscripted' into wartime applications simply because the user probably didn't have access to any other type of weaponry, being a farmer, you know?
I would wager that someone who was suitably trained in the use of scythe could give a claymore-wielder some trouble, especially since you could use both ends of the scythe, one to bludgeon, the other to cut- and there are ways to catch or foil a blade w/out getting the scythe cut in half. I mean, if someone were to try and block an overhand strike from a sword at a perpendicular angle is looking to get that pole cut in half- I would think that'd be on purpose, not by accident. Not to mention, they could use the scythe as a foil to divert the blade and spin the staff to bring the other end up for an attack.
I'm not skilled with a scythe or polearms in general, just offering a different outlook.
HR, you had me rollin...the claymore of carnage lol
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2009 19:45:04 GMT
mock my claymore all you please, you will all be awed by its greatness in a matter of weeks when its completed. and I shrunk the blade dimensions to make it weildable. ill post videos demonstrating its uses as an ultimate pole weapon and two handed sword. the battle trident i designed will be completed soon also. pictures and videos will follow.
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