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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 5:15:52 GMT
I own 3 katana's, and I never really thought about other swords, but after looking around I am interested in getting something like a Cold steel Grosse Messer. I'm just wondering other people's general opinions on which swords they prefer?
From what I know katana's are sharper than those swords but not as tough, but after reading the review of the grosse messer on sbg and how they repeatedly mention it's sharp I'm beginning to wonder.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 5:40:30 GMT
Your comparing Apples to Oranges, I have studied/trained with the Katanna, and Fenced with the foil, now I am studying with one handed sword from the medieval period, with some bastard swords thrown in for good measure.
The two are completely different, and the Gross messer is a Falcion, made for chopping, With the Katanna, you use the sword as a shield, with the medieval swords, you fight with a shield in one hand, and the sword in the other, or have really good Armour.
There will be more help on this subject from others.......SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 5:54:03 GMT
IMHO, it's not about sharpness, toughness of a blade, etc, etc... It's, in a real life, only about your personal preferences. Most of the functional swords are sharp and durable in some points I've been in love with Japan for all my life, that's why I'm studying iaido and it will be very fanny if I'll bring in my Dojo a grosse messer I'm not a collector of any kind, so I only have what I do use for my classes, daito, shoto and tanto, no less, no more... Just my 5 yen ;D
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Post by rammstein on Dec 3, 2008 6:00:15 GMT
About all you can compare between the two preference-wise is aesthetics - and that's a strictly personal thing.
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Dec 3, 2008 8:35:20 GMT
I prefer both. As many of both as possible....meaning as many as my wife lets me! lol!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 9:04:10 GMT
[...]with the medieval swords, you fight with a shield in one hand, and the sword in the other, or have really good Armour.[...] Not really the case - if you direct your attention to the historical sword manuals you can see many uses of the european sword in defensive manoeuvres.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 9:52:58 GMT
[...]with the medieval swords, you fight with a shield in one hand, and the sword in the other, or have really good Armour.[...] Not really the case - if you direct your attention to the historical sword manuals you can see many uses of the european sword in defensive manoeuvres. That is getting in to later medieval times, post 1300's
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 9:57:28 GMT
Not really the case - if you direct your attention to the historical sword manuals you can see many uses of the european sword in defensive manoeuvres. That is getting in to later medieval times, post 1300's Well that is because there really isn't anything that survived BEFORE the 1300's. Other then I33.
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Post by salvatore on Dec 3, 2008 10:12:30 GMT
With all respect, I don't think we need another one of these threads. They tend to start flame wars and S**t fits, but as I've said once before, comparing the 2 swords is (Simply) stupid, as they are totally different and I pray another flame war doesn't break out.
Toughness depends on the smith, the era, and materials and generally technique used, so you can't really compare one class of sword to another without pissing someone off.
I prefer the katana, just because I think it is more beautiful and an graceful weapon. But that doesn't mean that any European sword can't be the same way, it is all preference.
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Post by shadowhowler on Dec 3, 2008 13:39:27 GMT
I love both... I don't think I have a prefrence. I enjoy Katana, Arming Swords, Long Swords, Sabers, Rapiers, Jian Swords, Scimitars, Daos, short swords... I love it ALL. Each weapon feels differant, requires differant skills and body postures... I have no favorites.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 3, 2008 14:02:30 GMT
I love all sword types but especially katanas and most of all single handed European Arming swords. I have more training and experience with western swords so I enjoy cutting with them more because I get better results but I love katanas too. any sword can be razor sharp just as much as a katana. I have an arming sword that has a nice appleseed shaped cutting surface just like good katana and it is sharpened just as razor sharp as all my katana and it slices through tatami as well as a katana. it even weighs within one ounce of the same weight as my favorite katana and has a similar balance point but I'll tell you what the two swords are completely different animals on how they act.
so, yes western swords can be just as sharp as katana, katana can be tough like westerns, but they really don't compare well to each other. they are just too different.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 14:08:18 GMT
As stated above, different philosophies and techniques. I simply prefer double edged 'European' swords because they harmonize with my ancestry. I feel a particular connection with these swords that just doesn't happen with others.
Until recent years, there used to be quite a few weapons vendors in my area, which allowed me to handle a wide variety of swords and daggers - making it far easier to establish my preferences. There's nothing like hands-on experience to help make up your mind.
Road trip, anyone?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 20:39:27 GMT
Western longswords are my absolute favorites. I could go on about things like versatility and whatnot, but the truth is they just do something for me. Not sure why. I just love 'em. I want to branch out and learn others, but the longsword remains my first love.
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Post by jasmineleaf on Dec 4, 2008 7:15:51 GMT
I personally respect both types of swords, although I do greatly prefer Katanas. I appreciate the atmosphere and culture surrounding the Japanese Katana more so than I do Knights / Castles of Medieval Europe. With that said, I have encountered certain phases in my life where both were equally as intriguing, but I think from here-on-in, I am sticking with the Katana.
As for sharpness / strength of blade / speed, etc. I think it all depends on the wielder of the sword. A sword is only good as its swordsman, and so it is really hard to compare the both. As someone said earlier, you really are comparing "apples and oranges."
There are certain advantages that European weapons had over the Katana, and some the Katana had over the European. However, as for today, both weapon types are virtually the same (at least I think so). Modern steel is much more resilient and durable than the steel they used back in "ancient" times, and some designs have been improved upon on both ends. With that in mind, you're going to see agile European swords as much as you do Katanas; so it's all really a matter of personal opinion regarding the culture and not the swords themselves. Although, I would like to believe the Katana was as legendary as the hype often says!
Hehe. Asian pride ^_^! /~o~
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 8:17:43 GMT
I am going to have to go with Greco-Roman and western swords in general over the katana. Not that a katana is not an effective and deadly sword, but it is intended to be used with the kind of martial arts training that is both grueling and extensive. Since I do not have that kind of training, I feel to own one would be an insult to those who have taken the time and really "earned" the right to own such a sword. Western swords, I feel, required far less training, are meant to deal with body armor to some degree, and if need be, an untrained person could still be rather effective with one on the battlefield.
Then again, who knows? It's not as though every soldier on the Asian battlefield was a trained Samurai since that would take a lot of time to make sure those guys were all properly trained, and the learning curve for eastern martial arts swordsmanship is long and steep. You'd basically have to be a black belt as a foundation for them to even start you on real sword training. There may have been plenty of guys on the pre-firearm Japanese battlefield who were just out there swinging and hacking away for their lives while only a few actually handled their rigs like Jet Li.
I should mention that in some cases, the Japanese effectively employed samurai swords in WW II, showing that even in modern battles, the sword is still a capable weapon. The combat tomahawk is still being used in Trashcanistan too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 18:42:21 GMT
Well, from a historical stand point I would say I think the family of swords we call "Japanese swords" are generaly better at what they ares supposed to do than other blades of simular dimensions.
Katanas are not like a one handed saber (Chinese taichi, scimitar, rapier etc) or a larger broad sword. They always struck me as a dedicated slashing weapon with some stabbing ability that worked well with advanced foot work and ducking / turning moves. I guess some of that could be done with a saber but at some of the angles these swords were used at I dont think they would have as much power or speed.
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Post by alvin on Dec 4, 2008 19:18:26 GMT
Dang...some great posts !!! And no flame wars or semprini fits either !!! This is great ! I especially enjoyed Jasmineleaf's post. I agree 100% with the main points made there. + 1 2 U. As to my favorite type/style/period/culture sword, I really enjoy the swords of the so-called "Viking Age" as, to paraphrase Hammersword, they are more in line with my ancestry and soul. And they were pretty darn effective too ! Effective and beautiful to my eyes and spirit. That said, I think that a well done Katana - without the squiggly lines on the blade - are definitely works of art and effective weapons too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 21:40:42 GMT
I love katana's as well, they are so graceful and it does require a lot of training to be used properly. I also think they have a lot of history and culture behind them. And of course they are razor sharp and can CUT. This is why I have been fascinated with katana's for a long time and have spent more money than I should have on them...
However, I don't think a katana can do what some other swords can do. They just aren't made as tough as other swords from what I know. And they definitely are more expensive. I'm getting a dynasty forge bushi class katana and that is considered a mid level katana and costs around 500.
Whereas I can just get something like this for 160 and this seems to be a lot tougher, see video below. (it's a Grosse Messer from cold steel cutting a phonebook in half!)
This was making me wonder if I should just not spend 500 on a DF katana and spend 160 on this, and use it as my "cutter" sword.
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Dec 4, 2008 23:21:31 GMT
You'll probably end up doing like I did.....................buying both!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 23:33:06 GMT
haha I wish, but unfortunately I don't have that much spare cash.
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