Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 23:42:07 GMT
I love all swords. No matter what style you give me, I can find beauty and grace in the design and how it handles.
and to jeffs post, I don't really think extensive and greuling martial arts practice is necessary to learn how to use a katana. Sure it helps to have a martial arts background, but it's more important to know Kendo, iato, whatever floats your boat really. Like chinese swordsmanship, there are multiple ways to effectively use a katana. And honestly, I don't think every soldier was a highly trained samurai. All you have to do is swing that thing around like crazy and you'll surely kill someone! hahaha
With that said, I find myself not attracted to what the sword is, more-so who it was made by, how it was made, and how it handles. Regardless as long as it makes my target regret the day I placed it upon my cutting stand, I like it.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 6, 2008 1:59:24 GMT
Well, from a historical stand point I would say I think the family of swords we call "Japanese swords" are generaly better at what they ares supposed to do than other blades of simular dimensions. Katanas are not like a one handed saber (Chinese taichi, scimitar, rapier etc) or a larger broad sword. They always struck me as a dedicated slashing weapon with some stabbing ability that worked well with advanced foot work and ducking / turning moves. I guess some of that could be done with a saber but at some of the angles these swords were used at I dont think they would have as much power or speed. From a historical standpoint, you'd be wrong. "larger broad sword"? Please clarify.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 7:45:16 GMT
Well, from a historical stand point I would say I think the family of swords we call "Japanese swords" are generaly better at what they ares supposed to do than other blades of simular dimensions. Katanas are not like a one handed saber (Chinese taichi, scimitar, rapier etc) or a larger broad sword. They always struck me as a dedicated slashing weapon with some stabbing ability that worked well with advanced foot work and ducking / turning moves. I guess some of that could be done with a saber but at some of the angles these swords were used at I dont think they would have as much power or speed. And you do realize that me with my 36 inch blade type XVa sword will laugh in glee at you as I POKE you to death...right? ALL swords do what they are designed to do very well. Toss in a shield and you will find katanas to be less then useful. Toss in late era plate...and once again, katanas...not so useful. And you don't think western swordmanship doesn't have advanced footwork?!? Or ducking and turning? Or grappling? Or kicking...or punching? See I do both...and there is a lot of similarities. A lot of the grapples and pins that Fiore does for instance looks a lot like the stuff we do in hap ki do for instance.
|
|
|
Post by brotherbanzai on Dec 6, 2008 15:26:30 GMT
The katana was my favorite for many years and I thoroughly enjoyed the years I spent doing Iaido. Now that I'm doing German Longsword, western longswords are my favorite. If at some time I take up fencing then I imagine that rapiers will be my thing.
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Dec 6, 2008 16:13:32 GMT
The katana was my favorite for many years and I thoroughly enjoyed the years I spent doing Iaido. Now that I'm doing German Longsword, western longswords are my favorite. If at some time I take up fencing then I imagine that rapiers will be my thing. Indeed... When I used to fence with my father... I was in love with Rapiers. Later when I was practicing Martial Arts, I was interested in the weapons associated with them... and my sword prefrences became Jian and Katana. Later, I became interested in Europian history and in my ancestory... and I started being more interested in Arming and Long swords, Tomahawks and knives. ...and so on. Nowdays, I love it all. I appricate the warrior spirit and practices of all cultures... and hope to collect weapons from many, many different places and periods in time. ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2008 3:04:59 GMT
i appreciate all styles of sword
but im a katana wielding iaidoka
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2008 4:24:07 GMT
I think many are in love with katanas because they are 'always' something spiritual. Samurai sword training is part of something bigger i.e. spiritual training. So, profound intimacy exists between the sword and the man. Moreover, katanas are not just tools; they deserve respect. Many things we own are personalized, of course. But, if my car is my friend, your car may simply be regarded as a tool. That's not the case with katanas. I don't know but I feel that 'European' swords have less spiritual touch. I believe they carried more spiritual meaning but this is not as widely publicized.
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Dec 7, 2008 5:18:19 GMT
I think many are in love with katanas because they are 'always' something spiritual. Samurai sword training is part of something bigger i.e. spiritual training. So, profound intimacy exists between the sword and the man. Moreover, katanas are not just tools; they deserve respect. Many things we own are personalized, of course. But, if my car is my friend, your car may simply be regarded as a tool. That's not the case with katanas. I don't know but I feel that 'European' swords have less spiritual touch. I believe they carried more spiritual meaning but this is not as widely publicized. I'd have to dissagree just a little bit... I don't think the spiritual link that you refer to existing between man and katana has anything to do with the sword... but more with the bushido philosophy of the Samurai with whom the katana are associated. A jag off with a katana is just as much of a jag off as one with a Europian Arming sword, for example. I think a lot of people really dig the bushido/samurai vibe (or at least the hollywood version of it most have come to know) and thus seek to be a part of that by having a katana. I'm not saying ALL people are like this... on this forum alone there are many, many people who collect katana who also study the martial arts and mind sets of the historic samurai. I'm just saying the buying public as a whole is likely this way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2008 5:21:59 GMT
i think one thing we can all agree on is our love for sharpend pieces of steel no matter what shape or size. guns really bum me out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2008 6:39:15 GMT
I like all swords though since I only really understand the use of katana I'll only buy katana. If in time I learn european sword arts, I will probably start buying those.
I agree with the whole idea that a lot of people are drawn toward katana because of Hollywood. I was drawn to the martial arts because of Hollywood. After I studied for a long while I learned more than what Hollywood tells us and now I appreciate such weapons far more than what I used to.
Guns do not bum me out - except in the idea that I can't afford more of them. I love guns - loved guns before I got into martial arts actually. If I had a choice between a sword and a gun, I'd have to say I'll choose the gun... and I have already.
Ah hell, I just love deadly weapons in general. lol
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2008 17:33:36 GMT
Guns. Very important weapons. I used to own... don't now... strongly desire that others retain the right to bear arms. Taking away weapons is the first step to taking away freedom. I discovered that I am not the right sort to own guns. I must have weapons that require me to stop, think and focus before using them... at least a little bit. A berserker, when it comes to physical confrontation. A peaceful philosopher, if allowed. But don't try to tell one of my fellows that European swords don't carry a deep spiritual connection for some; particularly when referencing a katana... apples and oranges. This also is not the right venue/board for that kind of discussion. It's all about the appeal of steel - especially the sub $300 beauties that most of us can afford! ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2008 3:09:32 GMT
Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to throw my two cents in. I like the katana, and I like single handed eruopean swords. I seem to have a more natural affinaty to fencing type swords but am mentaly and emotional drawn to the katana. The curvature of the blade just captivates me. but if a european swrod and akatan both weilded by equally skilled swordsmen where to be in battle, I belive it would come down to a stale mate. who even could land the first blow would win. hell, some one with boken in theroy could beat some one with a katana. (I love my cheap army surplus boken..) Thanks for listening
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2008 4:27:51 GMT
For the sake of thread is it understood that we're comparing the iconic 'longsword' with the Katana or is it a massive melee of katana vs falchion, rapier, etc?
Mediaeval swords are every bit as graceful and complex as the Japanese katana. Read any Tobler lately guys? I'd say that they're even more culturally symbolic considering that they have roots in France, Germany, Italy, England, Spain, etc.
Addressing the other question (utility) I don't see much point in comparing Katana and Mediaeval swords, the categories are a bit too broad. It seems to be saying that there is a base model for 'katana' or 'European sword'.
Flaming: How much influence does ANIME have on the katana lovers, and how many of the 'European sword' guys are playing D&D as we SPEAK???
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2008 6:22:09 GMT
anime may have some impact, I love anime, as do most of my friends, but they want the crazy swords that would not be usable at all that anime has created... I want to throw fireballs if I had the choice, DBZ power over sword any day LOL.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 5:42:40 GMT
i prefer the katana. fast , sharp , good looking ...cant go wrong imo
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 3:59:42 GMT
European, for the fact some of my ancestors (may have) lived and died with them. I also personally can't see holding the killing arts as, a veritable "almost" religion. I got cut in a fight once, nothing religious about it, trust me. I love katana they ARE elegant, but so is the sword Albion based their Munich on. That sword is double edged SWEETNESS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 4:47:47 GMT
Katana or Longsword, like Coke or Pepsi either ones bad in your stomach I think that the katana is great if your a light and speedy guy, single hand and shield if you got the strong arms, I have trained in curved sabre and I'm a short stocky guy which I never felt immediately suited me but I've got good speed and precision these days....... I think its like any weapons discipline a trained katana user will likely kill the thug with the longsword and vice versa .....
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Dec 23, 2008 4:49:35 GMT
A sword is a sword man. I love them all, non more or less. I prefer Japanese Katanas In the sense you could get a quality one for a good price. European swords cost a bit more, but I may prefer one if I were to choose between two free swords.
|
|
Con
Member
Review Points: 60
Posts: 97
|
Post by Con on Dec 24, 2008 1:25:45 GMT
European for me, but again like everyones saying, it's simple preference. I just like the style. Japanese katana's are so-so for me. But if someone offered me one for free... ... ... no hesitation... ... ...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 2:35:27 GMT
I am going to have to go with Greco-Roman and western swords in general over the katana. Not that a katana is not an effective and deadly sword, but it is intended to be used with the kind of martial arts training that is both grueling and extensive. Since I do not have that kind of training, I feel to own one would be an insult to those who have taken the time and really "earned" the right to own such a sword. Western swords, I feel, required far less training, are meant to deal with body armor to some degree, and if need be, an untrained person could still be rather effective with one on the battlefield. I should mention that in some cases, the Japanese effectively employed samurai swords in WW II, showing that even in modern battles, the sword is still a capable weapon. The combat tomahawk is still being used in Trashcanistan too. Toyama Ryu was designed to be used (quite effectively) within a few short months of training. That was also the style that was likely used by those WWII soldiers you mentioned if I recall correctly. Perfecting it however, is a life's work. I think many are in love with katanas because they are 'always' something spiritual. Samurai sword training is part of something bigger i.e. spiritual training. So, profound intimacy exists between the sword and the man. Moreover, katanas are not just tools; they deserve respect. Many things we own are personalized, of course. But, if my car is my friend, your car may simply be regarded as a tool. That's not the case with katanas. I don't know but I feel that 'European' swords have less spiritual touch. I believe they carried more spiritual meaning but this is not as widely publicized. I think I can agree with this. Let me clarify. As has been said, any moron with a katana is just that, a moron with a katana, same for western blades. However, in the popular media...we have MANY many many books, movies, tv programs, documentaries, and the like where a western longsword, bastard sword, short sword, 2h sword, whatever you like...is just a bar of sharpened steel used for killing someone else. A tool. Now, think of a book, movie, tv program, or documentary where a katana/japanese style blade is used. In almost none of them is there any question that the sword is anything less than a very important centerpiece to the plot, main character, or overall development of the story/history/etc. Even in the Last Samurai...where the katana was downplayed to an incredible level (which I thought was very cool)...its importance is STILL stressed via plot development. Even the end of the movie drives it home. This is of course not a universal thing...but the traits are there and far more likely to be picked up on by the general public than the reverse. Now am I saying that that is the way it was, and how we should all feel? HELL no lol. Just saying that that's how most people are going to feel about it as outsiders looking in. Most people don't connect the cruciform of a western longsword with the church and religion (even though there were whole militant orders founded with this as a center piece if i recall), but you can bet every single true knight throughout history did. The connection for modern society just isn't there. But everyone on the planet knows that the katana is the 'soul' of a samurai. That just naturally makes one look differently at each blade type...until research and opening your field of experience teaches you different. For me...I can feel the connection to both. I somewhat prefer Japanese styled blades, simply because that's what I'm studying, and I have an immense respect for the intricacies and values of the religious/spiritual system that goes along with it. This does not change my feelings regarding standard accepted religion and/or my place in it...but Christianity certainly isn't very well represented by a western longsword now is it =). However. EVERY well crafted blade (that suits my aesthetic tastes of course!) speaks to me in its own way. My personal favorite blades combine aspects of both traditions. Differential hardening on a double edged blade is just one example (man...do I ever love the look of that lol). When I look at a blade that is hand crafted with skill and care...I see the steel, the fire, the water...the control...the vision, and the execution. The smith (and his intense concentration, and pouring out of self when making) and the warrior (with HIS intense concentration, and pouring out of self while using). In my case...these have come together in the same person (trust me, that's something you'd have to experience to know the feeling of). I see the deadly beauty...and in the end...a look at my own mortality. It really doesn't matter WHAT kind of blade it is in the end. They're all tools designed to facilitate one persons ability to end another person's life, open a gateway to the next world...meet ones maker...however you like to look at it. When it comes down to it...that's a spiritual thing no matter how you choose to take it. Cris
|
|