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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 15:43:40 GMT
Thank you, I looked that up, those are some great videos for Mora Lovers like me. Would you say a fair comparison would be the Garberg Vs Mora Companion HD ( fair comparison for thickness @ .125 Vs. .126 inch Spec, basically same thickness) . Because one Snapped ( 14C28n) Garberg, and one Just bent ( 12C27) Stainless Companion HD: I'm not counting the Kransbol test, as it thins out on 1/2 the blade...yes it was 12C27, and it broke, and it's also only .098 of an inch thick at the thicker part. Now it's also possible one was harder ( garburg), that is the "known unknowns".
Edited to add: If this was re-done, it's possible the roles would be reversed, "factory" blades still don't always come out the same, we are dealing with 90% recycled steel ( even if usually done very well, it ain't the Virgin stuff), and more important human error...as well as other factors we can't know.
Here is a guy who's Carbon Garberg was too soft, IOW a factory goof up:
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 16:11:07 GMT
Thank you, I looked that up, those are some great videos for Mora Lovers like me. Would you say a fair comparison would be the Garberg Vs Mora Companion HD ( fair comparison for thickness @ .125 Vs. .126 inch Spec, basically same thickness) . Because one Snapped ( 14C28n) Garberg, and one Just bent ( 12C27) Stainless Companion HD: I'm not counting the Kransbol test, as it thins out on 1/2 the blade...yes it was 12C27, and it broke, and it's also only .098 of an inch thick at the thicker part. Now it's also possible one was harder ( garburg), that is the "known unknowns". Both broke though, and the Companion didn't have as good a purchase on the wood and bent way earlier. Although it's not really applicable to swords anyways because they are hard, at 58HRC. I also found some variance in heat treat, some of my Mora are way softer than others, depending on when and where they were bought, my older Companions being harder than newer Companion models., not by a lot, maybe 1-3HRC. I thought the Garberg was thinner than the HD, but I saw my shop seems to have wrong measurements for it.
EDIT: wrote the post while you edited, That's very interesting about the 50HRC Carbon, the recycling could explain why the newer Companions are softer.
It's so weird that the whole stainless long bladed market is still 420HC for the good and 440C for the bad side when there are better solutions now, like the sandvik steels. Probably just wanna chuck out crap as cheap as possible.
I remembered, I did have some carribbean machetes as a child, the touristy crap with hore heads and bling, they technically were usable (if the grips weren't hella uncofortable), but I lost the to "family problems". Do these count? should I vote "no" now?
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 16:54:03 GMT
@mr.Stabby, Yah, these days could also be the energy crisis in Europe, not running the ovens as hot to save money, or the "renewable energy" source can't keep up. But that Carbon Garberg was a total cock-up at under 50 HRC. Both "broke" but one bent and the other snapped...
As fun as those videos are, we will never know for sure ( 13C27 Vs. 14C28n) based of a few examples due to variances beyond our control.
However I did enjoy watching. Very Entertaining.
I think Machetes could go either way, sorry you lost them.
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Post by joe_meadmaker on Dec 25, 2023 18:02:37 GMT
I don't think I do. I'm actually not positive what my first real sword was. I bought number of SLOs before gaining some knowledge and transitioning to actual swords. I'm not sure which was the first though. The first one I remember buying was an H/T Longsword in the classifieds of this forum. If I use that as my first sword, I no longer have it.
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Post by blackngold on Jan 9, 2024 0:58:06 GMT
Yep, I still have my first "real" sword. It's an Angus Trim "Northern Italian Bastard Sword" I purchased back in 2003 from a website called "Dancing Giant Swords". I had it in storage for quite a while, so it has a few rust spots now. I'm considering getting it cleaned-up and sent to someone to re-hilt it-- if anyone has some leads on who does that kind of thing, please let me know!
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jan 9, 2024 13:58:45 GMT
Yes, I do. I didn't know it was going to be a "real" sword at the time. It's a Deepeeka gladius that I bought in the late 80's at a real mall ninja shop for I think $60. Turns out that it's not at all historically accurate, but it's a brutally solid piece of steel that's held up over these many years admirably. It's a go-to "zombie apocalypse" sword if there ever was one.
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Post by hawthorn on Jan 10, 2024 3:17:48 GMT
I do, mine is the Gen2/Legacy Arms Maintz gladius, bought 2012. Yeah so do I. One of their lucernes I bought in 2008. if you could have called it a real sword, the top half of it bent like a bar of taffy. I know they had quenchant problems or something, but the bottom half of the blade that was actually hardened wanted to bend also. In 2020 after some experience with another couple Gen2 models I realized the problem, their blades were only hardened but not tempered. I don't call throwing a blade back onto the coal bed just until the edges turn purple tempering, the whole inside was still almost as-quenched hard.
I tempered the lucerne to where a sword is supposed to be at. Chopped it down to 21". Distally tapered it. Then I made it a new guard, one piece handle, brass spacers and a shorter scabbard. Now it's a real sword.
yes, my shelf looks like crap I don't care
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 10, 2024 4:31:43 GMT
Their Lucerne was my 4th or 5th sword ca 2013. That was after they fixed the earlier tempering problems from ca. 2008/2009 afaik. IIRC it wasn't just tempering but also thinning their blades to be less crowbaresque. Mine at least is solid, it's one of my better swords. Yours look like their Maximilian sword now.
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Post by izzy on Jan 17, 2024 7:43:52 GMT
I do, mine is the Gen2/Legacy Arms Maintz gladius, bought 2012. Yeah so do I. One of their lucernes I bought in 2008. if you could have called it a real sword, the top half of it bent like a bar of taffy. I know they had quenchant problems or something, but the bottom half of the blade that was actually hardened wanted to bend also. In 2020 after some experience with another couple Gen2 models I realized the problem, their blades were only hardened but not tempered. I don't call throwing a blade back onto the coal bed just until the edges turn purple tempering, the whole inside was still almost as-quenched hard.
I tempered the lucerne to where a sword is supposed to be at. Chopped it down to 21". Distally tapered it. Then I made it a new guard, one piece handle, brass spacers and a shorter scabbard. Now it's a real sword.
yes, my shelf looks like crap I don't care
Weird, one would think it it was not tempered but hardened it would not bend like taffy....I think you got a bum sword even at the old standard. I am glad you could salvage it....
Mr. Stabby also commented in this thread about differentially Hardened Swords, how the hardness on Gen2/ Legacy (Philippines) did not vary much in his measurements in this thread:
I have no concrete explanation as to why that is, if anyone has information on how they ( gen2/ legacy Arms) were doing it in post 2009 blades ( heat treatment/ temper) I would be grateful for such knowledge.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 17, 2024 8:11:22 GMT
My 2012/2013 Gen2/LA (before Cas Iberia) were simply normal blades with normal heat treatment. That's the rule, the 2009 problems were the exceptions. Dunno what caused those problems exactly, they changed it.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 17, 2024 9:26:44 GMT
Could have been the forge not heating the blades evenly. If the tip section didn't get hot enough, it would remain relatively soft. Bad choice to sell them like this, but at least they seem to have fixed it. I bought mine in 2018, but who knows when it was made.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 17, 2024 10:07:38 GMT
As Someone Who Was There, the forge in the Philippines was getting a lot of flak for still making overly-thick, awkwardly-balanced swords when the rest of the world was moving toward proper distal taper etc, so they tried to change their designs and found the heat treating process was not working out. They tried to fix things, struggled, and ultimately moved production of larger swords out of the Philippines to China, where they'd already moved their katana production years prior. (their Philippines katana were hugely popular, too)
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Post by hawthorn on Jan 17, 2024 18:20:11 GMT
izzy Avatar Jan 16, 2024 22:43:52 GMT -9 izzy said: Weird, one would think it it was not tempered but hardened it would not bend like taffy....
Oops, I didn't make the point clear. Well... the top half of the blade just wasn't hardened. It was dead soft, and this is why it bent so easily. I guess it wasn't at critical, or maybe it even turned black, when they quenched the blade. There was a huge difference in hardness in the top and bottom halves that was just obvious from using files on them, like when I was draw filing the distal taper in, or when sanding. The difference revealed itself even more after tempering, the top half didn't change, while the remainder of the blade lowered by about 8 HRC. Speaking from experience with steels covering a wide range of hardness, the blade as I received it felt like 58-59 in the bottom half while the top half was basically annealed-soft. Oh, and the edges (bottom half of blade) were approximately 50 HRC. So figure that one out if you want.
I didn't have the soft blade problem but did have the same over-hardness and lack of tempering in one of their 12th century models and one of their 12th century daggers. I wrecked the 12th century sword but the dagger was tempered and modified, and it's part of my EDC rotation. Its edges are rather soft as well but it's still fun.
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Post by izzy on Jan 21, 2024 16:09:58 GMT
As Someone Who Was There, the forge in the Philippines was getting a lot of flak for still making overly-thick, awkwardly-balanced swords when the rest of the world was moving toward proper distal taper etc, so they tried to change their designs and found the heat treating process was not working out. They tried to fix things, struggled, and ultimately moved production of larger swords out of the Philippines to China, where they'd already moved their katana production years prior. (their Philippines katana were hugely popular, too) Thank you for the information, do you know how they were / are making the Pompeii Gladius today? That is I am looking at details of the heat treat...I have one older Gen2, and a newer Legacy Pompeii Gladius so this would either put me at ease, or be a cause for concern.
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Post by izzy on Jan 21, 2024 16:12:24 GMT
My 2012/2013 Gen2/LA (before Cas Iberia) were simply normal blades with normal heat treatment. That's the rule, the 2009 problems were the exceptions. Dunno what caused those problems exactly, they changed it. That is what I was led to believe as well....at least with the short swords...
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 21, 2024 16:15:11 GMT
As Someone Who Was There, the forge in the Philippines was getting a lot of flak for still making overly-thick, awkwardly-balanced swords when the rest of the world was moving toward proper distal taper etc, so they tried to change their designs and found the heat treating process was not working out. They tried to fix things, struggled, and ultimately moved production of larger swords out of the Philippines to China, where they'd already moved their katana production years prior. (their Philippines katana were hugely popular, too) Thank you for the information, do you know how they were / are making the Pompeii Gladius today? That is I am looking at details of the heat treat...I have one older Gen2, and a newer Legacy Pompeii Gladius so this would either put me at ease, or be a cause for concern. According to their own current info, small swords and daggers phillipines, longswords china.
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Post by shinobigatana on Jan 21, 2024 19:24:15 GMT
Paul Chen PPK which is now a wall hanger in my home office. Very shortly after its purchase I also bought a Kris Cutlery wakizashi which I have also kept. So inexpensive and great value for the buck. I'll eventually give them away im sure, but still too nostalgic at this point.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 21, 2024 22:15:37 GMT
Thank you for the information, do you know how they were / are making the Pompeii Gladius today? That is I am looking at details of the heat treat...I have one older Gen2, and a newer Legacy Pompeii Gladius so this would either put me at ease, or be a cause for concern. Thank you for the information, do you know how they were / are making the Pompeii Gladius today? That is I am looking at details of the heat treat...I have one older Gen2, and a newer Legacy Pompeii Gladius so this would either put me at ease, or be a cause for concern. [img style="max-width:100%;" src="//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" class="smile" alt=" "] According to their own current info, small swords and daggers phillipines, longswords china. To the best of my knowledge, mrstabby is correct, but I would suggest reaching out directly to Legacy Arms if you were concerned. I can't remember if clydehollis is still active with them or if someone else is running the show now, but emailing their service/support should get someone who can give you answers.
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Post by eastman on Jan 21, 2024 22:21:54 GMT
Isn't Clyde the Kingdom of Arms guy now?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 21, 2024 22:26:57 GMT
Yup!
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