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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 17, 2023 0:42:22 GMT
Yeah, the rat tail ones. I still have pommel and cross guard of my first "not real" sword, a classic stainless rat tail Tizona thingy that my brother brought with from a travel to Spain. Guess what happened... the tang broke like a crisp bacon. A stainless steel waki that works for gardening I'd consider a real sword.
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Post by blackjackjolly on Dec 17, 2023 20:49:42 GMT
I still have, I'm pretty sure, that same "barbarian" sword (totally not the Atlantean or anything from Conan because copyrights) in a safe with some of my other decorative swords.
My barbarian sword went to the (now adult) kid of a friend. I should ask if it led to a lifelong habit. It was really not a bad piece for an off-brand South Asian knockoff. The balance was pretty good and I seem to recall it actually had distal taper and was lighter than the Albion that replaced it when I grew up.
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Post by exeter on Dec 17, 2023 22:30:59 GMT
Mine's an early Museum Replicas from 'way back. It was in their catalog as a limited edition, Del Tin blade with Museum Replicas mountings. I remember they billed it as a greatsword.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,636
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Dec 19, 2023 22:32:26 GMT
My first "real" sword is a custom fantasy design made out of unhardened carbon steel flat stock and sculpted into shape with an angle grinder back in the late 1980's. It's sharp, and has a lenticular blade cross-section, but the lack of heat treatment limits its functionality (at least beyond a few cuts). It's a cool looking design though, and I may need to commission an experienced smith to make me a revised version. I need to dig it out of the closet it's currently residing in and indulge in some nostalgia.
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Post by izzy on Dec 20, 2023 14:54:55 GMT
My second Sword after the Dadao, and the obvious explanation why we don't choose bacon:
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 20, 2023 16:26:09 GMT
Gen2 Pompeii, nice! Beef jerky counts as bacon here!
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Post by izzy on Dec 21, 2023 12:30:53 GMT
Gen2 Pompeii, nice! Beef jerky counts as bacon here!
We used to make our own Biltong ( South African Jerky), very tasty, keeps well, I found an old pack that was lost in a vehicle for 5 to 6 months, still edible. When I had my own small land holding in Florida we had geese, and my wife made the best Pate' ( Grilled Goose liver, chickpeas, Garlic, Olive oil, and some salt) that was my favorite breakfast when we had it ( seasonal, when the geese got big enough).
I'm getting a second Philipino Gen 2 Gladius, the sale price on the closeouts were too good to pass up.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 21, 2023 13:36:38 GMT
Ah, geese, esp. fried! Saying here in Bavaria: A goose is a dopey bird, one is too little, two are too much.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 831
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Post by rschuch on Dec 21, 2023 14:06:11 GMT
Yeah, the rat tail ones. I still have pommel and cross guard of my first "not real" sword, a classic stainless rat tail Tizona thingy that my brother brought with from a travel to Spain. Guess what happened... the tang broke like a crisp bacon. A stainless steel waki that works for gardening I'd consider a real sword. OH, ok. I thought real meant "functional" , not applicable to SLOs. So my answer just got a little more complicated. My first metal sword was one of those El Cid cheapo deals I got for myself when I was like 15. 40 years later it had lost some of its novelty, especially when comparing to my newly formed collection. A buddy of mine had recently started exploring metal working and had a grinder so I gifted it to him over the summer. When December rolled around he gifted it back....or a piece of it as a memento as a rustic knife. So I guess technically the answer is "yes" if you count bits and pieces. Attachments:
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 21, 2023 14:45:39 GMT
I thought we meant "real" swords, too. My first "sword" was a wall hanger I picked up for $23 over 20 years ago. Took me buying 20 more (including four three-piece katana/wakizashi/tanto sets) to realize the error of my ways and buy the PK. Never looked back since, and prefer to stick to lesser-known antiques these days.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 21, 2023 14:48:47 GMT
I meant real swords, your first real sword, no deco, no slo, no rat tail. A functional sword. But a functional stainless steel blade (the gardening waki) is still functional. Even when most stainless steel blades aren't.
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Post by pellius on Dec 21, 2023 16:42:37 GMT
My first SLO (that wasn’t just a distal tapered branch) was a wooden arming sword my dad made for me when I was a young adventurous boy exploring the woods and marshes around our home. Maybe that qualifies as “functional?”
I prized it greatly, and “used” it constantly. Naturally, I eventually accidentally broke it trying to cut through a particularly menacing bush. Like so many of my beloved broken toys of childhood, it was eventually lost to time.
I would very much like to have the pieces of that sword back now.
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 21, 2023 20:31:16 GMT
... But a functional stainless steel blade (the gardening waki) is still functional. Even when most stainless steel blades aren't. Until it isn't, I guess. If it's one of those slab-handled models (I have a set) then it might be just fine, but if it's the classical rat-tail mess, it's not that it's functional so much as the user has just been very lucky so far. Thus, important distinctions.
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Post by izzy on Dec 22, 2023 10:23:13 GMT
... But a functional stainless steel blade (the gardening waki) is still functional. Even when most stainless steel blades aren't. Until it isn't, I guess. If it's one of those slab-handled models (I have a set) then it might be just fine, but if it's the classical rat-tail mess, it's not that it's functional so much as the user has just been very lucky so far. Thus, important distinctions. Same can be said for many a Katana with too high Carbon. I bought a stainless Wakizashi years ago ( like 25 y/o), gave it to someone who used it quite a bit as he was living in a far out place with brush and rogue dogs. AFAIK it's still going strong...certainly was a bit soft as it wore down a bit last time I saw it years ago. the shop owner recommended it based on the fact "that it has enough carbon" to be a real blade...have no idea if it was 420 or 440....or whatever...no guard just plain wood Saya and Tsuka.
Not exactly counting it as a "real" blade, but one can't discount it completely either.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 22, 2023 10:31:04 GMT
In doubt X bacon!
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Post by izzy on Dec 22, 2023 10:58:04 GMT
Ah, geese, esp. fried! Saying here in Bavaria: A goose is a dopey bird, one is too little, two are too much. My first geese were a pair of abusive Chinese geese we named "Bonnie and Clyde"...they terrorized their previous owner so much we got then for 5 USD each from a local feed store contact. One time the male came up behind me and knocked me flat on my Arse with his wings, what he did not expect is that I would fight back on the ground. Someone poached the female, and we had to eat the Gander, as all he did was call for his mate all day. Was not impressed with the taste of Chinese geese ( too skinny and tough), so we raised a flock of European geese.
What we learned is that Geese are pack animals, you have to grab them every so often, force them to the ground and ruffle the feathers in the dust ( does not hurt them, except their pride) to establish yourself and the "dominant" Gander, especially during breading season when the Hormones are strong.
This is likely too much info for a sword forum, but here is one of the best books on raising geese:
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 22, 2023 11:50:06 GMT
An old friend's uncle always raised a flock of geese with a steadily diminishing number. I learned that you shouldn't butcher one when the others can watch it, they start to carry a crudge against the human, at least for a day or two. The uncle isolated one for a few hours in a shed, where the bloody thing was done then. I'm really getting hungry now...
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 22, 2023 13:50:14 GMT
Until it isn't, I guess. If it's one of those slab-handled models (I have a set) then it might be just fine, but if it's the classical rat-tail mess, it's not that it's functional so much as the user has just been very lucky so far. Thus, important distinctions. Same can be said for many a Katana with too high Carbon. I bought a stainless Wakizashi years ago ( like 25 y/o), gave it to someone who used it quite a bit as he was living in a far out place with brush and rogue dogs. AFAIK it's still going strong...certainly was a bit soft as it wore down a bit last time I saw it years ago. the shop owner recommended it based on the fact "that it has enough carbon" to be a real blade...have no idea if it was 420 or 440....or whatever...no guard just plain wood Saya and Tsuka.
Not exactly counting it as a "real" blade, but one can't discount it completely either.
I once took down a large bush a friend's mother wanted gone with a cheap katana. Handled the job fine until I decided to bury it in the trunk of said bush afterwards, giving it a two-way set. Bent to one side and buckled at the spine. Straightened one over my knee, no big deal, but can't do much about the buckle. Years later I decided that was probably stupid and dangerous, because I had no idea what kind of tang this thing had and it was almost certainly stainless. I think I paid $20? Prior to this the same friend and I were messing about with my first "sword" and I for a laugh, tossed an orange into the air and cut it as it fell. Friend decided he wanted to try, but missed, three times, then proceeded to hack at it on the ground instead. By the fourth whack or so he decided he was satisfied, passes the sword back to me and says, "I think I broke your sword." Sure enough, the hollow plastic handle had chipped under the guard and no longer held compression, so everything was loose now. Somehow, miraculously, the welded-rod "tang" had not broken, or even bent. Still wouldn't recommend doing that again with that sword, or any like it. Plenty of "functional" swords have suffered the same breaks we often warn about in lesser-made "swords" so it's all just luck of the draw, really, but playing with a loaded deck is better.
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Post by izzy on Dec 23, 2023 19:50:41 GMT
Same can be said for many a Katana with too high Carbon. I bought a stainless Wakizashi years ago ( like 25 y/o), gave it to someone who used it quite a bit as he was living in a far out place with brush and rogue dogs. AFAIK it's still going strong...certainly was a bit soft as it wore down a bit last time I saw it years ago. the shop owner recommended it based on the fact "that it has enough carbon" to be a real blade...have no idea if it was 420 or 440....or whatever...no guard just plain wood Saya and Tsuka.
Not exactly counting it as a "real" blade, but one can't discount it completely either.
I once took down a large bush a friend's mother wanted gone with a cheap katana. Handled the job fine until I decided to bury it in the trunk of said bush afterwards, giving it a two-way set. Bent to one side and buckled at the spine. Straightened one over my knee, no big deal, but can't do much about the buckle. Years later I decided that was probably stupid and dangerous, because I had no idea what kind of tang this thing had and it was almost certainly stainless. I think I paid $20? Prior to this the same friend and I were messing about with my first "sword" and I for a laugh, tossed an orange into the air and cut it as it fell. Friend decided he wanted to try, but missed, three times, then proceeded to hack at it on the ground instead. By the fourth whack or so he decided he was satisfied, passes the sword back to me and says, "I think I broke your sword." Sure enough, the hollow plastic handle had chipped under the guard and no longer held compression, so everything was loose now. Somehow, miraculously, the welded-rod "tang" had not broken, or even bent. Still wouldn't recommend doing that again with that sword, or any like it. Plenty of "functional" swords have suffered the same breaks we often warn about in lesser-made "swords" so it's all just luck of the draw, really, but playing with a loaded deck is better. Agreed, having the best quality one can get / afford is paramount. I for one would like to see more offerings of short swords in properly heat treated Sandvik, 4C13, etc. as they have potential for that role...obviously most of the stainless offerings are not even close to that quality, and some can be downright dangerous.
Recently, I had contacted a well known seller about certain Longquan Katana models, and asked if there was a thermocouple at the forge for temperature control, or if any of the high end items were HT in an oven ( vs eyeballing the steel color)....got the run around...no real answer. I like 9260, I like some the higher end shock steels, but the lack of info to me says a lot. Andi makes a distinction, asking for proven stainless swords, those that have stood up to cutting, IOW something that has at least some quality that makes it a "real" sword...to me that is a reasonable standard.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 23, 2023 20:17:59 GMT
I think 14c28n looks good for short swords and it is being produced in big amounts, so not that costly compared to others like CPM-3V. Really surpprised nobody has done it yet in bigger runs. Unfortunately I think most buyers don't know much and tend to want "maximum edge retention, maximum hardness" and therefore the producers oblidge. I have looked at quite a few short sword range blades recently (35-50cm/12-18") and most of those advertise 58-60HRC and stuff, I would not trust those not to shatter (sooner or later) no matter the stainless steel used. I even bought a few to test, and yeah, like glass. It looks like the ones that don't advertise hardness are the other extreme though. Like the one 420 steel machete so soft, that the relatively stout edge rolls up like cinnamon rind when hitting green wood. Yeah, it will survive much use, but you won't have fun because you're straightening the edge and resharpening all the time.
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