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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 24, 2023 6:08:58 GMT
Antique medieval swords often had a edge hardness in the 30-40 HRC and were considered functional. I assume the warriors in those days thought: Better bent and rebendable than broken, better edge rolled fixable than chipped. Like modern users of relative soft machetes or kukri. Understandable when you're in a campaign.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 6:37:26 GMT
But why settle for 40HRC when we can now get usable swords with 55HRC edges that don't bend.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 24, 2023 6:41:42 GMT
Because it's your first sword that you still own and consider functional and real for this poll.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 6:50:19 GMT
If I can fold it between two fingers, it's not functional to me. Well, its like eating deathcap, you can, but only once.
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 8:27:52 GMT
I think 14c28n looks good for short swords and it is being produced in big amounts, so not that costly compared to others like CPM-3V. Really surpprised nobody has done it yet in bigger runs. Unfortunately I think most buyers don't know much and tend to want "maximum edge retention, maximum hardness" and therefore the producers oblidge. I have looked at quite a few short sword range blades recently (35-50cm/12-18") and most of those advertise 58-60HRC and stuff, I would not trust those not to shatter (sooner or later) no matter the stainless steel used. I even bought a few to test, and yeah, like glass. It looks like the ones that don't advertise hardness are the other extreme though. Like the one 420 steel machete so soft, that the relatively stout edge rolls up like cinnamon rind when hitting green wood. Yeah, it will survive much use, but you won't have fun because you're straightening the edge and resharpening all the time. Which maker with the soft 420HC machete ? Quite a few makers run it very soft, others have QC issues. In my family are 2 Condor 420HC machete's they don't sell anymore...at least the one I use seems to be as good as the Carbon in terms of edge roll, the other went to my wife, because even though it was under specification in terms of Millimeter thickness, she liked it, so she got to keep it. As you know Heat treat is 1/2 the issue. I traded mine for a more expensive Machete ( the Outback) at no additional cost to me, and I do like it. I would think 56-57 HRC would be my upper limit for a sword in the "toughest" of the stainless steels, and the temper had better be excellent. As for shattering ( eventually), that is one of those things I could neither prove or disprove at this time....it would take years of use and abuse, from a particular maker, with good QC, in order to prove certain stainless is better, or equal to most high carbon in terms of "snapping", at least in terms of 1060, 1070, 1080. In terms of 52100, 1095, C-100, my belief is that Sandvik 13C26 is superior in terms of breakage ( too much Carbon, esp. for a sword). I don't think 420HC is optimal for a short sword, compared to Sandvik 13C26 or Uddenholm AEB-L due to the lower hardness needed to be tough. 14C28n is supposed to have slightly lower "toughness" ( in terms of edge roll) than 13C26 or AEB-L at a given HRC, but I don't know about impact resistance, and bending v. snapping, etc.
For fun here are some broken ( mostly) CARBON Moras, the general train of thought is the 13C26 ( at 56-58 HRC) stainless is tougher than their non-laminate C-100 carbon steel ( at 58-60 HRC) :
I personally cant complain about my Heavy duty Carbon Mora Companion, I sharpened it once in the last 5 years ( in rotation) and it has maintained a usable edge, for a small knife that is used as a cutter ( food, tape, rope, fuzz sticks, etc.) other than it's a bit thick for some tasks. I don't do much Batoning wood, that kind of abuse is what an Hatchet or Stout Machete is for.
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 8:44:41 GMT
Because it's your first sword that you still own and consider functional and real for this poll. Better a bit too soft than too hard. My apologies if this has been a Hijack of your thread.
Not my first, but my first Rapier, a Deepeeka, that paying for the "sharpening Service" at Kult of Athena did nothing to help...it had an extreme reverse distal taper, I had to pay someone locally with a belt sander to thin it out and make a usable edge (for the first 1/3 of the blade)....and yes the gentleman told me the steel was "too" soft ( guessing the EN-45 has a max spring temper of 46-48 HRC). For a rapier it's not a huge issue.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 24, 2023 8:59:26 GMT
EN45 is more or less the same as 9260. Deepeeka always make softly treated blades if heat treated at all.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 8:59:41 GMT
I think 14c28n looks good for short swords and it is being produced in big amounts, so not that costly compared to others like CPM-3V. Really surpprised nobody has done it yet in bigger runs. Unfortunately I think most buyers don't know much and tend to want "maximum edge retention, maximum hardness" and therefore the producers oblidge. I have looked at quite a few short sword range blades recently (35-50cm/12-18") and most of those advertise 58-60HRC and stuff, I would not trust those not to shatter (sooner or later) no matter the stainless steel used. I even bought a few to test, and yeah, like glass. It looks like the ones that don't advertise hardness are the other extreme though. Like the one 420 steel machete so soft, that the relatively stout edge rolls up like cinnamon rind when hitting green wood. Yeah, it will survive much use, but you won't have fun because you're straightening the edge and resharpening all the time. Which maker with the soft 420HC machete ? Quite a few makers run it very soft, others have QC issues. In my family are 2 Condor 420HC machete's they don't sell anymore...at least the one I use seems to be as good as the Carbon in terms of edge roll, the other went to my wife, because even though it was under specification in terms of Millimeter thickness, she liked it, so she got to keep it. As you know Heat treat is 1/2 the issue. I traded mine for a more expensive Machete ( the Outback) at no additional cost to me, and I do like it. I would think 56-57 HRC would be my upper limit for a sword in the "toughest" of the stainless steels, and the temper had better be excellent. As for shattering ( eventually), that is one of those things I could neither prove or disprove at this time....it would take years of use and abuse, from a particular maker, with good QC, in order to prove certain stainless is better, or equal to most high carbon in terms of "snapping", at least in terms of 1060, 1070, 1080. In terms of 52100, 1095, C-100, my belief is that Sandvik 13C26 is superior in terms of breakage ( too much Carbon, esp. for a sword). I don't think 420HC is optimal for a short sword, compared to Sandvik 13C26 or Uddenholm AEB-L due to the lower hardness needed to be tough. 14C28n is supposed to have slightly lower "toughness" ( in terms of edge roll) than 13C26 or AEB-L at a given HRC, but I don't know about impact resistance, and bending v. snapping, etc.
For fun here are some broken ( mostly) CARBON Moras, the general train of thought is the 13C26 ( at 56-58 HRC) stainless is tougher than their non-laminate C-100 carbon steel ( at 58-60 HRC) :
I personally cant complain about my Heavy duty Carbon Mora Companion, I sharpened it once in the last 5 years ( in rotation) and it has maintained a usable edge, for a small knife that is used as a cutter ( food, tape, rope, fuzz sticks, etc.) other than it's a bit thick for some tasks. I don't do much Batoning wood, that kind of abuse is what an Hatchet or Stout Machete is for.
I think the stainless Mora Companion is 12C27, and I have heard/read that the 14C28N to be much tougher than the 12C27. Also the machete I was talking about was 420, not 420HC, big difference in edge retention and hardness. My point about shattering is that most stuff out there isn't tempered correctly and only meant for the "I go camping once a year" crowd, who will hardly ever really have to use these things. Of course there are some, but if it's 60HRC, I bet you my elderberry bush can break it.
Edit: Though to be honest, the only stainless swords I have had contact with are movie replicas, the rat tail stuff. Never have seen anything I would trust to hold up. For long knives/machetes I have seen more stuff, but I have not seen many where 2of5 reviews don't mention a broken blade.
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 11:53:09 GMT
EN45 is more or less the same as 9260. Deepeeka always make softly treated blades if heat treated at all. Supposedly KOA sells the Deepeeka that at least some heat treat as "battle ready" ( which it was not with lack of edge and too thick of a point), but I'm not running to buy more Deepeeka. The rapier itself has nice flex with decent stiffness and makes a nice "clang" when I hit the flats softly on round tubing ( gee I hope that's not the tubing...ha ha). I am sure it is pretty soft, quite have to trust they guy who sharpened it. The little scavengers ( ahem children) are already trying to lay claim to my blades "when they get older", and I had to talk them out of laying claim to the Deepeeka due to the HT. On the "Plus Side" it makes a flashy piece...
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 12:19:36 GMT
EN45 is more or less the same as 9260. Deepeeka always make softly treated blades if heat treated at all. Supposedly KOA sells the Deepeeka that at least some heat treat as "battle ready" ( which it was not with lack of edge and too thick of a point), but I'm not running to buy more Deepeeka. You mean like only the ones with a heat treat or Deepeeka heat treating some specifically for KoA? I have seen a gladius on KoA sold "battle ready" but the Deepeeka page said there was no heat treatment on it.
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 13:12:21 GMT
Which maker with the soft 420HC machete ? Quite a few makers run it very soft, others have QC issues. In my family are 2 Condor 420HC machete's they don't sell anymore...at least the one I use seems to be as good as the Carbon in terms of edge roll, the other went to my wife, because even though it was under specification in terms of Millimeter thickness, she liked it, so she got to keep it. As you know Heat treat is 1/2 the issue. I traded mine for a more expensive Machete ( the Outback) at no additional cost to me, and I do like it. I would think 56-57 HRC would be my upper limit for a sword in the "toughest" of the stainless steels, and the temper had better be excellent. As for shattering ( eventually), that is one of those things I could neither prove or disprove at this time....it would take years of use and abuse, from a particular maker, with good QC, in order to prove certain stainless is better, or equal to most high carbon in terms of "snapping", at least in terms of 1060, 1070, 1080. In terms of 52100, 1095, C-100, my belief is that Sandvik 13C26 is superior in terms of breakage ( too much Carbon, esp. for a sword). I don't think 420HC is optimal for a short sword, compared to Sandvik 13C26 or Uddenholm AEB-L due to the lower hardness needed to be tough. 14C28n is supposed to have slightly lower "toughness" ( in terms of edge roll) than 13C26 or AEB-L at a given HRC, but I don't know about impact resistance, and bending v. snapping, etc.
For fun here are some broken ( mostly) CARBON Moras, the general train of thought is the 13C26 ( at 56-58 HRC) stainless is tougher than their non-laminate C-100 carbon steel ( at 58-60 HRC) :
I personally cant complain about my Heavy duty Carbon Mora Companion, I sharpened it once in the last 5 years ( in rotation) and it has maintained a usable edge, for a small knife that is used as a cutter ( food, tape, rope, fuzz sticks, etc.) other than it's a bit thick for some tasks. I don't do much Batoning wood, that kind of abuse is what an Hatchet or Stout Machete is for.
I think the stainless Mora Companion is 12C27, and I have heard/read that the 14C28N to be much tougher than the 12C27. Also the machete I was talking about was 420, not 420HC, big difference in edge retention and hardness. My point about shattering is that most stuff out there isn't tempered correctly and only meant for the "I go camping once a year" crowd, who will hardly ever really have to use these things. Of course there are some, but if it's 60HRC, I bet you my elderberry bush can break it.
Edit: Though to be honest, the only stainless swords I have had contact with are movie replicas, the rat tail stuff. Never have seen anything I would trust to hold up. For long knives/machetes I have seen more stuff, but I have not seen many where 2of5 reviews don't mention a broken blade.
Opps, my bad, Sorry for the confusion. You are correct on the current stainless Mora knives are 12C27.
Here is a link from an old vendor ( "Ragnar") I used to buy from, showing you are right, but now he is taking the dirt nap, but who's friend ( "Redbeard") has taken over and opened a nicer store:
However Some of the OLD stainless Mora's were indeed 13C26 that is supposed to be the "same" as AEB-L:
"Stainless steel from Uddeholm AEBL-steel (razor steel) and later on Sandvik 13C26 followed by 12C27, 12C27Mod, and then back to 12C27 again..."
Yes, I am not impressed with "regular" 420, basically junk IMHO. 420HC is OK, but not even as good as Chinese 4C13, and certainly not on the level of the Sandvik steels, your experiences may vary.
In terms of whether 14C28n is better than 12C27, obviously real life tests are best, so if you have links please either PM me or post. There seems to be the idea on the net if it's run soft 14C28n still "holds an edge" better compared to 12C27 or 13C26 / AEB-L ( at the same HRC).
I'm not aware of any "toughness" tests between 14C28n and 12C27...there are some with 13C26 / AEB-L however. (at least on edge deformation, but not lateral stress!)
From the maker of 14C28n:
"Generally the same properties as the 12C27, but with higher hardness and slightly better corrosion resistance."
One would *Think* that 12C27 with 0.02 % lower carbon and less Chromium (- 0.5%) would be a tad ( just a little) tougher than 14C28n, but it's just a guess. Certainly any of these 3 stainless steels are tougher than the Carbon steels used by Mora...I would add in Chinese 4C13 and 420HC from the USA into the mix, not as Optimum steels, but tougher steels that could also be used in a sword.
And that brings us back to the main point, SOME stainless ( with proper HT and Temper) can be better than some carbon, esp. the blades with very high levels of Carbon...and thus included with "real" swords. I admit that will be a small percentage of SS swords indeed.
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 13:13:54 GMT
Supposedly KOA sells the Deepeeka that at least some heat treat as "battle ready" ( which it was not with lack of edge and too thick of a point), but I'm not running to buy more Deepeeka. You mean like only the ones with a heat treat or Deepeeka heat treating some specifically for KoA? I have seen a gladius on KoA sold "battle ready" but the Deepeeka page said there was no heat treatment on it. That is what they tell us. "Battle Ready" Ha Ha...at least the reviews seem to match up with my experience, there is at least some temper on this one....but it need a belt Grinder to make it "Battle Ready" ( maybe) and not just for the edge. My first, and likely last Deepeeka. It was cheaper when I purchased it by about 25 USD than now.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 24, 2023 13:26:53 GMT
KoA once stated they consider soft heat treated swords like Deepeeka as battle ready but not swords which might be too hard and brittle because of the risk of breaking. Afaik the typical La Tene swords of the Celts weren't quenched, only later Celtic swords at the time of the rising Roman Empire after the sack of Rome. www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_b/backbone/rb_2_2.htmlThe same idea, better bent than broken. So my unquenched Deepeeka Celtic sword is indeed historical correct.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 13:46:55 GMT
I think the stainless Mora Companion is 12C27, and I have heard/read that the 14C28N to be much tougher than the 12C27. Also the machete I was talking about was 420, not 420HC, big difference in edge retention and hardness. My point about shattering is that most stuff out there isn't tempered correctly and only meant for the "I go camping once a year" crowd, who will hardly ever really have to use these things. Of course there are some, but if it's 60HRC, I bet you my elderberry bush can break it.
Edit: Though to be honest, the only stainless swords I have had contact with are movie replicas, the rat tail stuff. Never have seen anything I would trust to hold up. For long knives/machetes I have seen more stuff, but I have not seen many where 2of5 reviews don't mention a broken blade.
Opps, my bad, Sorry for the confusion. You are correct on the current stainless Mora knives are 12C27.
Here is a link from an old vendor ( "Ragnar") I used to buy from, showing you are right, but now he is taking the dirt nap, but who's friend ( "Redbeard") has taken over and opened a nicer store:
However Some of the OLD stainless Mora's were indeed 13C26 that is supposed to be the "same" as AEB-L:
"Stainless steel from Uddeholm AEBL-steel (razor steel) and later on Sandvik 13C26 followed by 12C27, 12C27Mod, and then back to 12C27 again..."
Yes, I am not impressed with "regular" 420, basically junk IMHO. 420HC is OK, but not even as good as Chinese 4C13, and certainly not on the level of the Sandvik steels, your experiences may vary.
In terms of whether 14C28n is better than 12C27, obviously real life tests are best, so if you have links please either PM me or post. There seems to be the idea on the net if it's run soft 14C28n still "holds an edge" better compared to 12C27 or 13C26 / AEB-L ( at the same HRC).
I'm not aware of any "toughness" tests between 14C28n and 12C27...there are some with 13C26 / AEB-L however. (at least on edge deformation, but not lateral stress!)
From the maker of 14C28n:
"Generally the same properties as the 12C27, but with higher hardness and slightly better corrosion resistance."
One would *Think* that 12C27 with 0.02 % lower carbon and less Chromium (- 0.5%) would be a tad ( just a little) tougher than 14C28n, but it's just a guess. Certainly any of these 3 stainless steels are tougher than the Carbon steels used by Mora...I would add in Chinese 4C13 and 420HC from the USA into the mix, not as Optimum steels, but tougher steels that could also be used in a sword.
And that brings us back to the main point, SOME stainless ( with proper HT and Temper) can be better than some carbon, esp. the blades with very high levels of Carbon...and thus included with "real" swords. I admit that will be a small percentage of SS swords indeed.
It's the added nitrogen that does add strength to the 14c28n (therefore the N). Though the tests knifesteelnerds uses isn't breaking strength as in when a blade breaks or deforms but more geared towards when a blade chips and how big they are, and one does not necessarily translate to the other. I think they drop the edge of the blade on something hard and pointy
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 14:21:28 GMT
KoA once stated they consider soft heat treated swords like Deepeeka as battle ready but not swords which might be too hard and brittle because of the risk of breaking. Afaik the typical La Tene swords of the Celts weren't quenched, only later Celtic swords at the time of the rising Roman Empire after the sack of Rome. www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_b/backbone/rb_2_2.htmlThe same idea, better bent than broken. So my unquenched Deepeeka Celtic sword is indeed historical correct. Thank you for the link, yes soft(er) swords could be repaired in the field, a broken one needed replacement.
Back to modern times:
Despite KOA putting the Battle Ready stamp on Deepeeka, they "Poo Poo" the larger Philippines made Legacy Arms / Gen 2 swords, for being "soft". Some consistency from KOA is needed here!
"Although the manufacturer considers these as battle ready weapons. We have found that the blade temper is too soft for us to list them as such on some of the longer bladed swords."
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 14:29:20 GMT
KoA once stated they consider soft heat treated swords like Deepeeka as battle ready but not swords which might be too hard and brittle because of the risk of breaking. Afaik the typical La Tene swords of the Celts weren't quenched, only later Celtic swords at the time of the rising Roman Empire after the sack of Rome. www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_b/backbone/rb_2_2.htmlThe same idea, better bent than broken. So my unquenched Deepeeka Celtic sword is indeed historical correct. Thank you for the link, yes soft(er) swords could be repaired in the field, a broken one needed replacement.
Back to modern times:
Despite KOA putting the Battle Ready stamp on Deepeeka, they "Poo Poo" the larger Philippines made Legacy Arms / Gen 2 swords, for being "soft". Some consistency from KOA is needed here!
"Although the manufacturer considers these as battle ready weapons. We have found that the blade temper is too soft for us to list them as such on some of the longer bladed swords." Huh, interesting, the LegacyArms I have seen were in the low 50sHRC. KoA doesn't add that warning to all Legacys, weird. Also would be interesting where KoA would make the destinction.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 24, 2023 14:30:20 GMT
IIRC years ago, with the former owner, they stated that the Gen2 heat treatment was inconsistent and the blades sometimes too hard and brittle, which makes sense, while "too soft" doesn't, esp. when selling Deepeekas as battle ready. That was at the time after Cas Iberia bought Gen2/LA. Before this Gen2/LA swords were known as very durable with many hard tests. My few Gen2 are from the earlier time.
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 14:54:49 GMT
Opps, my bad, Sorry for the confusion. You are correct on the current stainless Mora knives are 12C27.
Here is a link from an old vendor ( "Ragnar") I used to buy from, showing you are right, but now he is taking the dirt nap, but who's friend ( "Redbeard") has taken over and opened a nicer store:
However Some of the OLD stainless Mora's were indeed 13C26 that is supposed to be the "same" as AEB-L:
"Stainless steel from Uddeholm AEBL-steel (razor steel) and later on Sandvik 13C26 followed by 12C27, 12C27Mod, and then back to 12C27 again..."
Yes, I am not impressed with "regular" 420, basically junk IMHO. 420HC is OK, but not even as good as Chinese 4C13, and certainly not on the level of the Sandvik steels, your experiences may vary.
In terms of whether 14C28n is better than 12C27, obviously real life tests are best, so if you have links please either PM me or post. There seems to be the idea on the net if it's run soft 14C28n still "holds an edge" better compared to 12C27 or 13C26 / AEB-L ( at the same HRC).
I'm not aware of any "toughness" tests between 14C28n and 12C27...there are some with 13C26 / AEB-L however. (at least on edge deformation, but not lateral stress!)
From the maker of 14C28n:
"Generally the same properties as the 12C27, but with higher hardness and slightly better corrosion resistance."
One would *Think* that 12C27 with 0.02 % lower carbon and less Chromium (- 0.5%) would be a tad ( just a little) tougher than 14C28n, but it's just a guess. Certainly any of these 3 stainless steels are tougher than the Carbon steels used by Mora...I would add in Chinese 4C13 and 420HC from the USA into the mix, not as Optimum steels, but tougher steels that could also be used in a sword.
And that brings us back to the main point, SOME stainless ( with proper HT and Temper) can be better than some carbon, esp. the blades with very high levels of Carbon...and thus included with "real" swords. I admit that will be a small percentage of SS swords indeed.
It's the added nitrogen that does add strength to the 14c28n (therefore the N). Though the tests knifesteelnerds uses isn't breaking strength as in when a blade breaks or deforms but more geared towards when a blade chips and how big they are, and one does not necessarily translate to the other. I think they drop the edge of the blade on something hard and pointy
Yes I know about the .11% N, and I did mention that knife Steel Nerds did no test for Lateral strength. What can I say, until such tests are done I will accept anecdotal evidence on 14C28n, you have to go with what you have.
So far I can only find that the Nitrogen helps with Edge Holding, and higher hardness ( which may be detrimental to toughness in regards to swords if that is taken advantage of), and corrosion, but not toughness per say. If you have any links you can PM me or post if you wish. I do keep an open mind.
"Typical applications for Alleima® 12C27 are hunting and fishing knives, pocket knives, skate blades and ice drills."
"Alleima® 14C28N is mainly recommended for knife applications which put very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance. Examples are pocket knives, chefs knives, hunting knives and fishing knives."
Listed for BOTH:
"Optimized hardening conditions give optimal austenite content (15%), many uniformly distributed carbides. Consequence: optimal combination of hardness, wear resistance, ductility and corrosion resistance."
To me it seems to be no particular advantage to have the N in the steel, in terms of a short sword. If I had to choose which one of the two, I would go with 12C27. It's been proven very tough over time (at least anecdotally), and taking in to account it's "intended use" such as Ice Skating blades via the maker.
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Post by izzy on Dec 24, 2023 15:02:58 GMT
IIRC years ago, with the former owner, they stated that the Gen2 heat treatment was inconsistent and the blades sometimes too hard and brittle, which makes sense, while "too soft" doesn't, esp. when selling Deepeekas as battle ready. That was at the time after Cas Iberia bought Gen2/LA. Before this Gen2/LA swords were known as very durable with many hard tests. My few Gen2 are from the earlier time. Word on the street (internet forums) was they put out a "bad batch" of swords, way before they were bought by CAS Iberia. I bought my Pompeii Gladius about the time they were just getting used to their new owners, and have no idea if mine was actually made "pre", or "post" CAS.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 24, 2023 15:03:26 GMT
It's the added nitrogen that does add strength to the 14c28n (therefore the N). Though the tests knifesteelnerds uses isn't breaking strength as in when a blade breaks or deforms but more geared towards when a blade chips and how big they are, and one does not necessarily translate to the other. I think they drop the edge of the blade on something hard and pointy
Yes I know about the .11% N, and I did mention that knife Steel Nerds did no test for Lateral strength. What can I say, until such tests are done I will accept anecdotal evidence on 14C28n, you have to go with what you have.
So far I can only find that the Nitrogen helps with Edge Holding, and higher hardness ( which may be detrimental to toughness in regards to swords if that is taken advantage of), and corrosion, but not toughness per say. If you have any links you can PM me or post if you wish. I do keep an open mind.
"Typical applications for Alleima® 12C27 are hunting and fishing knives, pocket knives, skate blades and ice drills."
"Alleima® 14C28N is mainly recommended for knife applications which put very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance. Examples are pocket knives, chefs knives, hunting knives and fishing knives."
Listed for BOTH:
"Optimized hardening conditions give optimal austenite content (15%), many uniformly distributed carbides. Consequence: optimal combination of hardness, wear resistance, ductility and corrosion resistance."
To me it seems to be no particular advantage to have the N in the steel, in terms of a short sword. If I had to choose which one of the two, I would go with 12C27. It's been proven very tough over time (at least anecdotally), and taking in to account it's "intended use" such as Ice Skating blades via the maker.
JoeX on youtube for example has destruction tested both, the fare pretty equal in edge retention, but the 14c28n seems to take a lot more to break.
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