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Post by jakovasaure on Nov 21, 2022 3:49:12 GMT
Bonjour ! I hesitated to post my message on another topic because it comes to fantasy swords through a realist angle but I think his place is here... So... Recently, searching some infos about swords and their handling in combat, I run into this video : Are the SWORDS in the Warcraft movie stupid? I found very interesting the technical explanations about how to make a fantasy sword more realistic and I just love the final redesign of the Warcraft's swords ! The fact of reduce the ornamention on the guard to make the sword nimble while increase the blade's width interested me in particular. The guy said that since the world of Warcraft is filled with big beasties, so the swords need to be bigger to be out of handle them. Eventualy, we can assume that some humans in this universe would be a bit stronger than humans from our universe. In fact, the idea is to assume this possibility but, in order to keep a certain balance between fantasy and realism, to keep the need to have a realistic physics of the swords. That means that it has to be not drastically too heavy, but also well balanced ! This is a perspective which pleases me very much and I'd like use it in my tabletop rpg setting ! So I would like to know what do you think of this guys ? In particular, I'd like to know if a heavier sword (heavier than an historical sword) would really make that difference between big monsters like orcs, dragons and so on... Mh, ok, dragons is maybe a bit too much, too special... But let's say, on a typical orc of the Warcraft universe. Is a heavier sword is a significant advantage compared to an historical normal sword, like a typical european longsword, or not that much ? And also, what if we increase the depth of the blade instead of the width ? It will be increased while trying to keep something balanced, of course, so the idea will be, basically, to create more volume in the midle of the blade, on all the lenght... Would we get the same result, in terms of combat handling ? Or not exactly ? I don't think it's worse than increase the width but, eh, I don't know...
I look forward to hearing your experts point of view !!   ( And sorry for my weird english  ) |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 21, 2022 6:56:16 GMT
Hi jakovasaure and welcome to the forum!
I own a Windlass Atlantean Conan Sword which is similar to the Warcraft movie swords I think, 7 lb heavy.
Also a Windlass Death Dealer Sword, just 4 lb heavy.
Both have common that they're balanced well due to the heavy metal hilts, they're just very heavy, even if the Death Dealer sword isn't completely outside of real antique sword weights.
Also the blades of both swords aren't extremely oversized.
With a realistic hilt both would be blade heavy but still usable.
So the idea in the video of reducing the hilt and giving more flesh to the blade would produce unwieldable blade heavy monsters.
Maybe you could take off an Orc arm with it but only if the Orc let's you, I don't think he will ...
The idea of fighting with such a sword against something like a melee weapon using grizzly is, ahumm, unrealistic.
I see only one little chance in a lucky thrust with a long pointy solid blade, not with a broad cutting sword.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 15:18:11 GMT
I always like to use bullfighting as an example of fighting anything in the fantasy realm, as it's the only real world example we have of someone using only a sword to fight some muscle filled brute.
In bullfighting, they only use a one handed thrusting sword, called an estoc (not to be confused with a medieval estoc). They usually have a few javelin like darts they slowly fill the bulls back with before finishing with their estoc.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Nov 21, 2022 17:44:39 GMT
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Post by Arlequin on Nov 21, 2022 19:07:28 GMT
Hiya, like Andi said, for a great beast or "monster" you would wanna large thrusting weapon to pierce through it's vital points, or something akin to a halberd/poleaxe, something that can generate enough concentrated force to both cleave through its dense Hyde and muscle and fracture their bone structure in the same swoop. Humans are fragile little things in the grand scheme, you wouldn't want to trade blows with something bigger than you, so you play the keepaway game instead lol.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 21, 2022 21:16:27 GMT
I always like to use bullfighting as an example of fighting anything in the fantasy realm, as it's the only real world example we have of someone using only a sword to fight some muscle filled brute. In bullfighting, they only use a one handed thrusting sword, called an estoc (not to be confused with a medieval estoc). They usually have a few javelin like darts they slowly fill the bulls back with before finishing with their estoc. Your observations and conclusions concerning bull fighting is not entirely correct. For example, “ only a sword to fight some muscle filled brute.” And “ usually have a few javelin like darts”, no, the banderilleros are mandatory. Each to his own opinion. Mine is that the matador is no hero as he has much help in killing the bull. It boils down to a group activity if the fight is done Spanish style, and that is what people generally think of. I’ve forgotten the number of men involved, but after the initial show to feel the bull out two picadors enter the ring on horse back with spears. Their function is to stab the bull a number of times in order to draw blood and exhausting the bull. Then the fellows with banderillas come out and each stick two of these barbed like poles in to the bull’s shoulder to weaken and weaken him further. When the bull is sufficiently weakened the matador makes a grand show by getting the bull make several passes that miss due to his cape before giving point with his sword through the bull’s heart. Any conception of a man entering a ring and facing a bull and killing him on his own is erroneous. It is done by a team and the man with sword is only the final act. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 22:58:05 GMT
I always like to use bullfighting as an example of fighting anything in the fantasy realm, as it's the only real world example we have of someone using only a sword to fight some muscle filled brute. In bullfighting, they only use a one handed thrusting sword, called an estoc (not to be confused with a medieval estoc). They usually have a few javelin like darts they slowly fill the bulls back with before finishing with their estoc. Your observations and conclusions concerning bull fighting is not entirely correct. For example, “ only a sword to fight some muscle filled brute.” And “ usually have a few javelin like darts”, no, the banderilleros are mandatory. Each to his own opinion. Mine is that the matador is no hero as he has much help in killing the bull. It boils down to a group activity if the fight is done Spanish style, and that is what people generally think of. I’ve forgotten the number of men involved, but after the initial show to feel the bull out two picadors enter the ring on horse back with spears. Their function is to stab the bull a number of times in order to draw blood and exhausting the bull. Then the fellows with banderillas come out and each stick two of these barbed like poles in to the bull’s shoulder to weaken and weaken him further. When the bull is sufficiently weakened the matador makes a grand show by getting the bull make several passes that miss due to his cape before giving point with his sword through the bull’s heart. Any conception of a man entering a ring and facing a bull and killing him on his own is erroneous. It is done by a team and the man with sword is only the final act. Yea, but if you know any other instance of a man fighting a muscled beast with a sword, I would like to know it. Never claimed it was exactly like fighting an orc. Never claimed it was heroic. It's just the closest thing we actually have information on. Sadly, we don't have much information on gladiators fighting lions and bears, otherwise that would be far superior |
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