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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 8, 2022 4:35:02 GMT
India cannot export sharp blades. We all know this to be true. Museum Replicas/Atlanta Cutlery does offer a sharpening service. The swords themselves have such a fine edge on them already (butter knife sharp), that sharpening them retroactively will not be difficult. If that is such an impediment for some buyers, then I trust they will look elsewhere, as several have already professed in this thread. Furthermore, I assume these buyers generally look past Windlass offerings because all Windlass swords come blunt or are sharpened with large secondary edge bevels, which I do not like. Did anyone honestly think that Matt Easton and the Royal Armouries were going to change Indian law? We all knew these swords would not come sharpened from India, and I am very sorry for those who thought otherwise. What I hoped for was that Windlass would produce sword blades with accurate geometry, distal taper, and weight and balance. A fine edge of "butter knife" sharpness can be given an appleseed edge fairly easily. I have a belt sander, I know how to sharpen a blade. This is a non-starter for me. Lastly, the comparison to Albion swords is entirely unwarranted. These are mid-range replicas not up to the standards of Albion's, nor is there any option for customization. This may be disappointing to some, but it comes as a relief to me. For those of us who do not have disposable incomes to pay for an Albion, or who are not patient enough to wait 18-24 months for one, and who find the look of Albion swords to be too perfect to the point of appearing aseptic, then these mid-range offerings are a wonderful development within this marketplace. I purchased a type XVII blade that costs HALF THE PRICE what Albion offers (the Sempach), and the Albion blade's level of polish is below what I prefer, and it does not come with a scabbard. For a person of modest income like me, this is good news. I am sorry it disappoints others, but as many of you have already pointed out, these just are not for you. Well I, for one, am extremely excited about these swords, even if I probably won't be able to afford one until next spring. It's not often you get swords that are extremely accurate replicas of museum artifacts, and these offerings are particularly unique and intriguing pieces. That singled edged sword in particular is just fantastically odd. Can't wait to see your review of the Type XVII!
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Yagoro
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Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
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Post by Yagoro on Oct 8, 2022 5:02:33 GMT
India cannot export sharp blades. We all know this to be true. Museum Replicas/Atlanta Cutlery does offer a sharpening service. The swords themselves have such a fine edge on them already (butter knife sharp), that sharpening them retroactively will not be difficult. If that is such an impediment for some buyers, then I trust they will look elsewhere, as several have already professed in this thread. Furthermore, I assume these buyers generally look past Windlass offerings because all Windlass swords come blunt or are sharpened with large secondary edge bevels, which I do not like. Did anyone honestly think that Matt Easton and the Royal Armouries were going to change Indian law? We all knew these swords would not come sharpened from India, and I am very sorry for those who thought otherwise. What I hoped for was that Windlass would produce sword blades with accurate geometry, distal taper, and weight and balance. A fine edge of "butter knife" sharpness can be given an appleseed edge fairly easily. I have a belt sander, I know how to sharpen a blade. This is a non-starter for me. Lastly, the comparison to Albion swords is entirely unwarranted. These are mid-range replicas not up to the standards of Albion's, nor is there any option for customization. This may be disappointing to some, but it comes as a relief to me. For those of us who do not have disposable incomes to pay for an Albion, or who are not patient enough to wait 18-24 months for one, and who find the look of Albion swords to be too perfect to the point of appearing aseptic, then these mid-range offerings are a wonderful development within this marketplace. I purchased a type XVII blade that costs HALF THE PRICE what Albion offers (the Sempach), and the Albion blade's level of polish is below what I prefer, and it does not come with a scabbard. For a person of modest income like me, this is good news. I am sorry it disappoints others, but as many of you have already pointed out, these just are not for you. Well I, for one, am extremely excited about these swords, even if I probably won't be able to afford one until next spring. It's not often you get swords that are extremely accurate replicas of museum artifacts, and these offerings are particularly unique and intriguing pieces. That singled edged sword in particular is just fantastically odd. Can't wait to see your review of the Type XVII! Im eyeing that falchion. Too bad i just used all my funds on a huawei
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Post by Lionhardt on Oct 8, 2022 10:57:51 GMT
My thoughts... While they are replicas of existing swords, to my eye, there's something off here. Maybe its the eye candy factor, I dunno. I guess I'd have to hold one to fall in love. So...who will be the matchmaker and get me one? I'll happily review the falchion... But seriously, I don't think they will impact Albion etc. They have their niche, and it appears none of the swords thusfar are direct competition. I'm with you. They picked some ugly swords to do first! That is a bummer.
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Nox
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Post by Nox on Oct 8, 2022 15:42:06 GMT
Are they only making these first six? Or will they be making different models in the future also? Would love to see some swords that don't often or have never gotten any replicas, such as IX.642 in their collection.
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Greg E
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Post by Greg E on Oct 8, 2022 15:56:53 GMT
I guess I must be the only one that doesn't seem interested in any of the offerings this round, I do hope that more swords are introduced, but the lack of a sharp edge from the get go at that much money seems ridiculous, I might as well look at an Atrim or valiant or an Albion for a little more. Yep, no Viking swords in the line. If they make one that has a historical hilt and a decent fuller, Windlass seems to make fullers that seem really rounded and undefined, I will think about it.
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Post by JGonzalez on Oct 8, 2022 16:02:40 GMT
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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 8, 2022 16:20:55 GMT
Are they only making these first six? Or will they be making different models in the future also? Would love to see some swords that don't often or have never gotten any replicas, such as IX.642 in their collection. In the video posted earlier, Matt Easton kept talking about these six models being a "first batch", so it sounds like they're planning on making more.
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Post by nddave on Oct 8, 2022 16:25:14 GMT
Nice glad to see these released sooner than later, was expecting a December-Spring 2023 release for these but nice they came so early from their reveal. I think these will do good for the market. Not only do they show that Windlass as a manufacturer is capable of making swords in the mid upper tier worth buying but also adds stronger competition to the more usual mid tier brands like DSA and DelTin. The scabbards look good, similar to the quality of the Windlass made Balaur Arms scabbards (which are really nice if you haven't had the chance to see or hold one personally) and the stronger attention to detail and fit and finish, especially in the grip is welcome.
As for the price I had initially hoped these would be a little less and in the sub $400-$500 ball park but being sub $600-$700 isn't bad and again put them in range with DSA. In a collaboration like this every party has to get paid though so I can see why they're higher priced than expected and from photos and stats are still a major improvement over Windlass's current top line swords.
Of the line I'd say the Type XVII, Black Prince and the English Two-Hander are my top three. Really like how the Type XVII has the proper blade and cross section transitions that show how complex Type XVII blades are, that gets missed by many manufacturers replicating the Type, which sadly aren't many anyway. The Type XVa they reproduced is one of the more popular historical swords around and a new well made replica is always welcome on the market. The English Two-Hander is where I think this line really shines and shows how Windlass can make a sword at the high end level for even less as in my opinion it not only outshines their original discontinued version (miss the blue color scheme though) but also the more expensive A&A model.
Personally I'm stuck between getting the Type XVII and English Two Hander.... hopefully these models have a longer shelf life than most collaborations and we all have an opportunity to get a few models before they're sold out and discontinued. Also as others mentioned I hope too that other models are introduced to the line as well. To get a whole "Royal Armouries" Line of swords with 10-15 models total in the next 2 years would be awesome and again a huge push for the production medieval sword market.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 8, 2022 16:27:44 GMT
My thoughts... While they are replicas of existing swords, to my eye, there's something off here. Maybe its the eye candy factor, I dunno. I guess I'd have to hold one to fall in love. So...who will be the matchmaker and get me one? I'll happily review the falchion... But seriously, I don't think they will impact Albion etc. They have their niche, and it appears none of the swords thusfar are direct competition. I'm with you. They picked some ugly swords to do first! That is a bummer. See, funnily enough, I feel exactly the opposite about these. I haven't been this interested in a repro in a very long time. I'll grant that the Holy Roman Empire 14th Century Longsword isn't really doing anything for me, but I absolutely love the look of the other models. It's rare that we get some reproduction swords that are so unique and interesting. Add that to them being exact replicas of actually artifacts, and I'm a happy camper. Couldn't ask for anything more out of a repro.
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Post by eastman on Oct 8, 2022 17:25:45 GMT
Although I am mostly attracted to the 14th C arming sword, the statement on the MRL website "It is important to note when purchasing a licensed collectible that for legal & liability reasons the licensor may not allow a sharpening service to be performed" means I may wait to order one until after I have practiced sword sharpening to the point I'm comfortable with a $600 experiment.
I'd also like to see some reviews of the actual production models sold.
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Post by skelley on Oct 8, 2022 18:32:24 GMT
I'm with you. They picked some ugly swords to do first! That is a bummer. See, funnily enough, I feel exactly the opposite about these. I haven't been this interested in a repro in a very long time. I'll grant that the Holy Roman Empire 14th Century Longsword isn't really doing anything for me, but I absolutely love the look of the other models. It's rare that we get some reproduction swords that are so unique and interesting. Add that to them being exact replicas of actually artifacts, and I'm a happy camper. Couldn't ask for anything more out of a repro. I'm with ya right there, the large protrusion coming off of the pommel just doesn't mesh with me. I wasn't feeling the single edge arming sword at first either but the more I look at it, the more I think "that's a damn good looking sword!"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2022 18:38:28 GMT
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Post by cearball on Oct 8, 2022 19:12:22 GMT
"I guess I must be the only one that doesn't seem interested in any of the offerings this round, I do hope that more swords are introduced, but the lack of a sharp edge from the get go at that much money seems ridiculous, I might as well look at an Atrim or valiant or an Albion for a little more." You're not the only one. I looked at the offerings and there was nothing that really interested me... maybe the falchion, but for that money I'd rather have a Landsknecht Emporium messer. The stuff is not bad but nothing really catches my eye. I felt similarly in terms of landsknecht
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Post by curiomansion on Oct 8, 2022 20:56:20 GMT
I feel the need to chime in to the debate/discussion.
Watch the Matt Easton videos and stare at the swords on an adequately large screen, the blade geometry is clearly better and far crisper than anything I've seen from Windlass. This is a clear flex from the company. Assuming the models that are shipped out are of the same quality, a considerable price jump is merited; especially from Windlass's base offerings and solidly from Balaur's offerings. The scabbard is also upgraded, which merits a price increase. Then there's the RA branding, which as nndave pointed out, means that the RA needs a cut.
The RA's cut is fully justified as well. Part of what made Albion "Albion" was the research that went into designing the swords. Judging an object solely on the difficulty of final manufacturing is naive. Yes, these sword's aren't proportionally more difficult to create than say the Battlecry line, but far more research went into making them, and that costs. It's like the classic story of a repairman charging $100 to turn one screw to fix an appliance. The client angrily feels overcharged, which prompts the repairman to discount the job by $4 and itemize the bill: $1 to turn the screw, $95 for knowing which screw to turn. Again, watch the Matt Easton videos and stare at the swords as he moves them around in the light; they are head and shoulders above anything Windlass has made. To my eye, in fact they look at least on par with mid 2000's A&A.
Last comment on price. We're savy shoppers here. Let's not pretend the MSRP is the price. There's already a 10% off available, and if these are regular items, they'll probably be able to be had 15%-20% off if bought at the right time with the right luck. If they sell out before the greater discounts can be had, well, then the market will have spoken.
As for comparisons with Albion, Valiant, A&A, let's be reasonable and watch out for the temptation for gatekeeping. I am, like most of you, willing to drop a pretty penny just to get one or two attributes in a sword that other manufacturers offer. I bought the Albion Ljubljana because I wanted a super thick anti-armor longsword that I read so much about in museum catalogues. I knew when I bought four years ago that a much cheaper sword with similar attributes would out, and the day has finally come! Please keep peoples' financial situations in mind when discussing on this forum. Paying an extra $300 on top of the price of these swords to get something better (and giving up a scabbard in the process) is not small money. I'm clearly not saying it's not worth it, but it's out of the question for many who will read through these threads.
I recently ordered the Wallace from Albion despite it not being in the budget currently because I know that it the 15 months I was quoted, I knew I'd be able to afford it. I've been waiting on a rapier from A&A for 3 years now. I do think these swords will pull some people away from the "name brand" makers, but it seems that they are so overbooked they won't feel it.
Wrapping up my rant, these are a great addition to the market in a pretty dead price bracket. If you're excited about these and what they offer, be excited! I'm excited, too! Will probably order the arming sword.
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Post by alientude on Oct 8, 2022 21:53:18 GMT
Agreed 100% with curiomansion . The midrange market is incredibly scarce for European swords. You're talking DSA (replete with problems), a couple Albion Squire Line models, and maybe a couple Hanwei. I might be missing a few (Kingdom of Arms maybe?), but it's just not a well-populated price range. I think it's incredibly encouraging to see new models here, and for them to be painstakingly measured recreations of originals is a huge bonus! If Windlass is able to pull this off, as the samples I've seen on Matt Easton's channel seem to imply, it's a huge boon to the sword market, even if they're not quite right for everybody.
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Oct 8, 2022 22:27:20 GMT
My only gripe with this whole line is the lack of being able to have them sharpened, they state they will NOT be sold sharp or have someone sharpen them as it will void the sword purchase, so to sharpen them you have to do it yourself and some people don't want to spend that much money to potentially butcher a sharpening job or will have to pay someone else MORE money to get it sharp for them. I am excited that we are in this time that a new collaboration is among us and will bring new and hopefully more models to the marketplace.
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Post by alientude on Oct 8, 2022 22:28:12 GMT
Agreed, that's basically the biggest drawback for me, too. Especially because I suck at sharpening. Luckily I have a friend I'm having the swords shipped to who has offered to sharpen them for me.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 8, 2022 22:33:13 GMT
Well I wasn't particularly interested in this model before, but damn, now I'm intrigued! A heavy, ultra stiff longsword focused for thrusting is definitely something I'd be interested in owning. I love how many of these models have deceptively complex pommels. Really looking forward to Matt's next videos on the other models!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2022 22:41:37 GMT
Despite the fact that I have a belt sander and can sharpen the sword, I am not looking forward to it. I can certainly understand why it's a deal breaker for some people. I think that's the price the Royal Armouries are extolling from this partnership. It's unfortunate, but if that's part of what's required to get these made, so be it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2022 22:42:21 GMT
Well I wasn't particularly interested in this model before, but damn, now I'm intrigued! A heavy, ultra stiff longsword focused for thrusting is definitely something I'd be interested in owning. I love how many of these models have deceptively complex pommels. Really looking forward to Matt's next videos on the other models! I ALMOST went with this one. I opted against it because it's such a beastly thing. It's a super long icepick.
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