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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 17:18:48 GMT
Okay so I might be getting myself a proper spearhead soon. I am debating between three windlass spears:
1. Euro spear 2. Norse spear 3. Long blade hewing spear
The only thing that keeps me from just getting the obviously coolest spear, th long blade hewing spear, is that it seems like it's an easy one for them to mess up when making it, and most likely to break. (not to mention it's balance and weight)
The Norse spear seems the most sturdy based on its base, and it's pretty dang cool looking. Only problem is the blade gets very thin right after the socket and it looks kinda heavy
And the third option, the euro spear. I like that it's leafed shape, so it can match my sword of Danu and the central ridge probably makes it one very stiff spear. It also looks like it would lend itself to one hand use best, to be used with a shield.
I am leaning towards something that won't fail me as easily, and that will likely not have cosmetic issues that the manufacturer didn't notice. But I'll notice them and I won't stop noticing them.
But man... That hewing spear tho.
Edit: I should add that it is intended to be used as a spear in one hand and a spear in two hands. Kind of a "do-it-all" spear, if you will
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 2, 2021 19:50:14 GMT
This is not the answer you are looking but a CS Asegai spear will answer all of your requirements and should be cheaper. At one time they were selling the head separately. I went to their home page and could find no spears listed. And KoA has the short version only, makes me think maybe CS is getting out of the spear business. Find yourself the long spear version or re-haft the short version. It can be used 1 or 2 handed, not going to break, stiff, and I can slice a bottle cleanly with mine. It will be sharper than any of the three you listed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 19:53:21 GMT
This is not the answer you are looking but a CS Asegai spear will answer all of your requirements and should be cheaper. At one time they were selling the head separately. I went to their home page and could find no spears listed. And KoA has the short version only, makes me think maybe CS is getting out of the spear business. Find yourself the long spear version or re-haft the short version. It can be used 1 or 2 handed, not going to break, stiff, and I can slice a bottle cleanly with mine. It will be sharper than any of the three you listed. I have that one. I love it. Perfect for hunting, and does all the jobs you need it to. I'm thinking more like a medieval one tho. Just to have a more compete medieval kit Edit: but my cold steel is definitely the one I would hunt with, or take with me in the woods.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 20:55:56 GMT
Kinda liking this one too
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 2, 2021 21:01:34 GMT
Get the Windlass Euro. I bought both it and the Greek at the end of 2020, and the Euro is definitely the superior spearhead. It's actually one of the best Windlass products I own. I rarely recommend products from companies as problematic as I find Windlass to be, but their European spearhead can usually be had at an inexpensive enough price-point that a bad one won't damage anyone's budget too badly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 21:17:19 GMT
Get the Windlass Euro. I bought both it and the Greek at the end of 2020, and the Euro is definitely the superior spearhead. It's actually one of the best Windlass products I own. I rarely recommend products from companies as problematic as I find Windlass to be, but their European spearhead can usually be had at an inexpensive enough price-point that a bad one won't damage anyone's budget too badly. What do you like about the euro spearhead? Good thing I seen this before deciding to just order haha
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 2, 2021 21:56:04 GMT
Get the Windlass Euro. I bought both it and the Greek at the end of 2020, and the Euro is definitely the superior spearhead. It's actually one of the best Windlass products I own. I rarely recommend products from companies as problematic as I find Windlass to be, but their European spearhead can usually be had at an inexpensive enough price-point that a bad one won't damage anyone's budget too badly. What do you like about the euro spearhead? Good thing I seen this before deciding to just order haha Several of the Windlass spearheads are either too heavy to be practical (Greek), or not proportioned well for their presumed use (hewing and long-bladed hewing). IMO, the Euro has enough socket and centerline reinforcement to perform as one might reasonably expect (obviously allowing for possible inconsistencies in the spearhead material). It is the only Windlass spearhead I have been satisfied with...in spite of being purchased at a discounted price.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 22:05:14 GMT
What do you like about the euro spearhead? Good thing I seen this before deciding to just order haha Several of the Windlass spearheads are either too heavy to be practical (Greek), or not proportioned well for their presumed use (hewing and long-bladed hewing). IMO, the Euro has enough socket and centerline reinforcement to perform as one might reasonably expect (obviously allowing for possible inconsistencies in the spearhead material). It is the only Windlass spearhead I have been satisfied with...in spite of being purchased at a discounted price. That pretty much solves it. The hewing ones I assumed to have the problems you mentioned, and I don't like their short sockets for such long blades And the center ridge line of the euro made it appealing for me. Stiffer the better. And lighter is good too, as I do plan to use it with a shield, and I'm not sure if I plan on getting a butt cap either (might try a small steel tube if I find one of a good diameter tho)
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 2, 2021 22:21:37 GMT
Edit: I should add that it is intended to be used as a spear in one hand and a spear in two hands. Kind of a "do-it-all" spear, if you will I don't like any of them for a one-handed spear. For a long one-handed spear, you want a lightweight head, preferably 250g/8oz or under. You can get away with a heavier head if it will be a short spear (e.g., 150cm/5'). Too much weight at the end of your spear and it will be really sluggish to turn. If you thrust, and it is parried, recovery will be really slow. A haft about 18-20mm (3/4") at the head end would be good. A tapered haft is good; it can be fatter than that where you grip it. Some old examples: Viking, ultralight at 82g, 16mm outer socket diameter: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1856-0701-1441Iron Age, long with about 25cm of cutting edge, 279g, 17.7mm socket: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1880-0802-117Viking, possibly 2-handed since it has a 28mm socket, 340g: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1856-0701-1452Anglo-Saxon or Viking, 322g with part of the haft (a fat 30mm): www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1868-0128-2Anglos-Saxon or Viking, huge and heavy at 791g: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1856-0701-1376The Windlass Euro would be OK if you shorten the socket, cutting it to give a better one-handed diameter. Heads that are marketed as "javelin heads" can make good long one-handed spears.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 2, 2021 22:23:02 GMT
Several of the Windlass spearheads are either too heavy to be practical (Greek), or not proportioned well for their presumed use (hewing and long-bladed hewing). IMO, the Euro has enough socket and centerline reinforcement to perform as one might reasonably expect (obviously allowing for possible inconsistencies in the spearhead material). It is the only Windlass spearhead I have been satisfied with...in spite of being purchased at a discounted price. That pretty much solves it. The hewing ones I assumed to have the problems you mentioned, and I don't like their short sockets for such long blades And the center ridge line of the euro made it appealing for me. Stiffer the better. And lighter is good too, as I do plan to use it with a shield, and I'm not sure if I plan on getting a butt cap either (might try a small steel tube if I find one of a good diameter tho) It's interesting that you mention the Windlass butt caps, as they are usually the only Windlass products I pick up when on discount. The reason being...that other than protecting the end of the spear haft...and acting as a counter-weight...that's all you need to expect from them. My experience with them has been positive, in that regard...assuming that you find them acceptably priced. Apologies...for...excessive...ellipses.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 2, 2021 22:35:49 GMT
Edit: I should add that it is intended to be used as a spear in one hand and a spear in two hands. Kind of a "do-it-all" spear, if you will I don't like any of them for a one-handed spear. For a long one-handed spear, you want a lightweight head, preferably 250g/8oz or under. You can get away with a heavier head if it will be a short spear (e.g., 150cm/5'). Too much weight at the end of your spear and it will be really sluggish to turn. If you thrust, and it is parried, recovery will be really slow. A haft about 18-20mm (3/4") at the head end would be good. A tapered haft is good; it can be fatter than that where you grip it. Some old examples: Viking, ultralight at 82g, 16mm outer socket diameter: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1856-0701-1441Iron Age, long with about 25cm of cutting edge, 279g, 17.7mm socket: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1880-0802-117Viking, possibly 2-handed since it has a 28mm socket, 340g: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1856-0701-1452Anglo-Saxon or Viking, 322g with part of the haft (a fat 30mm): www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1868-0128-2Anglos-Saxon or Viking, huge and heavy at 791g: www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1856-0701-1376The Windlass Euro would be OK if you shorten the socket, cutting it to give a better one-handed diameter. Heads that are marketed as "javelin heads" can make good long one-handed spears. I agree that...in general...the heads we typically see advertised as javelins are superior for use as a general fighting spear than most spearheads marketed as such. My personal experience has led me to conclude that there are rare circumstances where the more agile spear doesn't tend to win a engagement (most else being equal). Most of the necessary mass in a spear will be in the haft, and a spear's ability to cut will rarely come into play. That should equate to a lighter, more nimble spearhead typically being better positioned to damage an opponent more often than a heavier one. Of course, this is all conjecture. I have only ever been in simulated spear fights.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 22:50:55 GMT
I was just thinking I found the euro a bit small compared to the hewing, but saying smaller is better makes me realize why it's better than the others. Looks lighter.
And it's likely gonna be a short shaft. I have yet to find a long hard wood shaft at any store and I ain't paying what martial arts staffs charge for em lol. Not to mention shipping.
I would buy one in person, but I don't have a means to travel to a martial arts store anymore.
Considering its a short staff, the hewing seemed not too bad if I counter weight it (likely with a steel pipe, a small one), but a light smaller spear like euro seems like it has nothing but advantages
Only reason I keep thinking bout the hewing is it looks so Friggen cool lol. But it's specs turn me away from it
Edit: as for butt caps, I will likely get one someday. But the one I want isn't on reliks and I don't feel like ordering from the states cause I hate PayPal lol
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 2, 2021 23:05:20 GMT
I was just thinking I found the euro a bit small compared to the hewing, but saying smaller is better makes me realize why it's better than the others. Looks lighter. And it's likely gonna be a short shaft. I have yet to find a long hard wood shaft at any store and I ain't paying what martial arts staffs charge for em lol. Not to mention shipping. I would buy one in person, but I don't have a means to travel to a martial arts store anymore. Considering its a short staff, the hewing seemed not too bad if I counter weight it (likely with a steel pipe, a small one), but a light smaller spear like euro seems like it has nothing but advantages Only reason I keep thinking bout the hewing is it looks so Friggen cool lol. But it's specs turn me away from it I agree that a short shaft mitigates a lot of the wood's strengths and weaknesses. It's my understanding that while there have always been preferred woods for polearm use, that pretty much everything was used when options were constrained. With a spear, elements like lateral strength play a much smaller role. A poplar dowel from your local hardware chain is going to be perfectly sufficient for the circumstances you will use this spear, and if it happens to break...well...it certainly won't BREAK the bank to replace.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 23:22:06 GMT
I was just thinking I found the euro a bit small compared to the hewing, but saying smaller is better makes me realize why it's better than the others. Looks lighter. And it's likely gonna be a short shaft. I have yet to find a long hard wood shaft at any store and I ain't paying what martial arts staffs charge for em lol. Not to mention shipping. I would buy one in person, but I don't have a means to travel to a martial arts store anymore. Considering its a short staff, the hewing seemed not too bad if I counter weight it (likely with a steel pipe, a small one), but a light smaller spear like euro seems like it has nothing but advantages Only reason I keep thinking bout the hewing is it looks so Friggen cool lol. But it's specs turn me away from it I agree that a short shaft mitigates a lot of the wood's strengths and weaknesses. It's my understanding that while there have always been preferred woods for polearm use, that pretty much everything was used when options were constrained. With a spear, elements like lateral strength play a much smaller role. A poplar dowel from your local hardware chain is going to be perfectly sufficient for the circumstances you will use this spear, and if it happens to break...well...it certainly won't BREAK the bank to replace. I have a pine dowel, that I found in the right size. It would be easy to just put it on there But at the same time I feel like i would rather have hard wood, even if it's shorter. But on the other hand, it's not like my pine spear shaft is gonna disappear if I get a hard wood one
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 2, 2021 23:30:12 GMT
I was going to suggest a javelin head but two have beaten me to it. I have one from MRL's DoD and like it. I use that spear with both hands but could do so easily with one. MRL's advertised weight is 170g.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 2, 2021 23:33:17 GMT
I agree that a short shaft mitigates a lot of the wood's strengths and weaknesses. It's my understanding that while there have always been preferred woods for polearm use, that pretty much everything was used when options were constrained. With a spear, elements like lateral strength play a much smaller role. A poplar dowel from your local hardware chain is going to be perfectly sufficient for the circumstances you will use this spear, and if it happens to break...well...it certainly won't BREAK the bank to replace. I have a pine dowel, that I found in the right size. It would be easy to just put it on there But at the same time I feel like i would rather have hard wood, even if it's shorter. But on the other hand, it's not like my pine spear shaft is gonna disappear if I get a hard wood one I won't speak to what you personally know, but the difference between the definition of "hard wood" and "soft wood" isn't what most people assume it does.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 23:38:11 GMT
I have a pine dowel, that I found in the right size. It would be easy to just put it on there But at the same time I feel like i would rather have hard wood, even if it's shorter. But on the other hand, it's not like my pine spear shaft is gonna disappear if I get a hard wood one I won't speak to what you personally know, but the difference between the definition of "hard wood" and "soft wood" isn't what most people assume it does. Yea, I know a bit on this subject. But my pine dowel is very very soft. And looks like a length wise crack on it. I reinforced it in multiple places with epoxy and jutte twine, but I don't really like pine. If I had a nice hickory or oak staff, I would be a happy camper. Maple, birch... I would even take poplar at this point. I can't really transport a very large pole anyway. I'm in a situation
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 3, 2021 6:44:25 GMT
The best hafts are as-grown (either saplings or coppiced poles), which has the advantage of already being tapered.
Otherwise, split timber is better than sawn-and-turned, but then you usually have to DIY.
Bigger and heavier heads (and winged heads, hooked heads, etc.) work well for two-handed spears, when you have the leverage to move the thing around. But even then, small heads can be useful. Want a longer spear - use a smaller head. Pike heads are often pretty tiny.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 9:54:42 GMT
This definitely gives me something to consider. The smaller the head, the better off I likely will be, if I wanna go pike length or one handed. The larger spearheads are better for two handed use 🤔
Thanks guys, it gives me a ton to think about. If I had access to birch saplings, I would use that. The tapered end would make for a nice counter balance as well.
Some days I miss living in a small town surrounded by forest lol
I originally wanted a javelin head, but they sold out on reliks, and I usually don't buy from USA websites as they require PayPal and PayPal won't let me make an account for some reason
You know, suddenly I'm thinking. I could always use a smaller hard wood shaft for transportation, and could make a proper staff if I was in the woods. Why would I be in the woods with a spear, you ask?
I do plan to try spear hunt. My cold steel would remain as the throwing spear, being lighter and less of a problem to damage (as its not very pretty). I would use the windlass for personal protection, not to be thrown
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 3, 2021 12:22:00 GMT
Going back to Timo’s last input; I use two hands on my longer spears as can change direction faster. On my two long spears, about 6’ hafts, I used rattan and wax wood because of their natural taper. I suspect ‘wax wood’ is a name applied by martial artist suppliers for ease of use and is actually a species of ligustrum lucidum.
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