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Post by jolestoli on Jan 31, 2021 0:06:56 GMT
I’m finally in a price range for a high end sword, particularly the Albion Viceroy, but i’ve seen in some forums that people have been noticing more problems with albion swords, such as uneven guards or scuffs on the finish. I’m wondering has anyone on here experienced this firsthand?
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Post by jolestoli on Jan 31, 2021 0:11:39 GMT
I’m finally in a price range for a high end sword, particularly the Albion Viceroy, but i’ve seen in some forums that people have been noticing more problems with albion swords, such as uneven guards or scuffs on the finish. I’m wondering has anyone on here experienced this firsthand? On a side note, i’m also eyeing a Lockwood longsword that i have heard is the same high quality fit and finish as an Albion, plus if i bought a sword from there i can get a scabbard for fairly cheap |
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,534 
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jan 31, 2021 0:28:50 GMT
I have not. I just received a Munich in late December, and it is essentially flawless.
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Post by peterrific on Jan 31, 2021 0:35:15 GMT
I really want a viceroy too. I saw someone on YouTube chopping wood and bones with one and wasn't happy with the outcome...but the sword looks amazing in that vid.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 31, 2021 1:31:15 GMT
I own several Albion's I have purchased over the years, I purchased three last year all at once, I have not noticed any flaws. If I was to get a Albion with a flaw I have no doubt that Albion would take care of it immediately and without cost.
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Post by fester on Jan 31, 2021 14:08:02 GMT
Thus far all albions I have received over the years have been fine. Including an Earl I just received Friday.
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Post by mpsmith47304 on Feb 2, 2021 22:55:20 GMT
I have gotten two Albions in the last 6 months and both are basically perfect.
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Post by neuronic on Feb 11, 2021 20:27:56 GMT
Here's someone who seems to be rather disappointed with his 2020 Viveroy:
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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 11, 2021 20:48:03 GMT
Here's someone who seems to be rather disappointed with his 2020 Viveroy: Did that sword come NEW like that from Albion? The guy states he has had the sword for "some time" at :19 I believe that he abused the sword and Albion wasn't going to replace it under warranty so this video went up out of spite. Look at all his other YouTube videos. No fair ruining the blade/changing the edge with your home sharpening and then complain about the edge rolling... LMAOThe sword did NOT come from Albion like that and in his video unboxing the sword direct from Albion on March 20, 2020 he doesn't notice any of those flaws. I suspect those flaws were user induced and Albion refused to repair them for free so he made the video above. His close examination of the sword same day he unboxed it... His video chopping stumps with his Viceroy... |
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Post by ThomasW on Feb 11, 2021 21:03:39 GMT
Yeah,... I wouldn't use a Japanese chefs knife as a meat cleaver, and neither should a sword be used as a woodchopping axe. The Viceroy I got last year was in perfect condition.
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Post by alientude on Feb 11, 2021 21:09:02 GMT
He compares a longsword to a wood-working chisel without the slightest bit of irony. He does not understand that different tools are made for different purposes.
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Post by neuronic on Feb 11, 2021 21:18:58 GMT
Looks like the edge did hold up pretty well against that stumps. Also the way he did it isn't quite "abuse" to me, he was rather careful with good alignment, I'd say... so nothing to lmao about here. A $1700 heavy war sword should handle that kind of use.
Can't judge what he said about the tempering, sounded conclusive, but there's no chance to conclude for us.
There were grip issues Albion took care of after sending it back and there seems to be a flaw in the blade grind he's not fond of.
That's what I take away from this.
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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 11, 2021 21:25:09 GMT
Looks like the edge did hold up pretty well against that stumps. Also the way he did it isn't quite "abuse" to me, he was rather careful with good alignment, I'd say... so nothing to lmao about here. A $1700 heavy war sword should handle that kind of use. Can't judge what he said about the tempering, sounded conclusive, but there's no chance to conclude for us. There were grip issues Albion took care of after sending it back and there seems to be a flaw in the blade grind he's not fond of. That's what I take away from this. We have no idea what kind of use this guy subjected the sword to off camera. Enough use that he felt the need to "sharpen it" himself ...and did a pretty nasty job of it at that. The guy claims to be a sword smith himself in the OP's video but he didn't notice any issues when he unboxed the new sword from Albion? REALLY? There is far more going on here than has been disclosed. I bet a call to Mike at Albion might shed more light on the subject. I believe he abused the sword, "off camera" and wanted Albion to replace it and given his use, his not having an issue with the grind when he unboxed and examined it, I think Albion rightly did not offer him a free new sword and he was pissed about it and made this video to make good on a "threat". Disclaimer: As many of you know.. I am often wrong but never in doubt...  |
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Post by neuronic on Feb 11, 2021 21:38:41 GMT
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I'm not judging from my believes of what may or may not happended "off camera".
Anyway this wouldn't stop me from buying a new Viceroy from Albion if I wanted to. Like I said, I think from what we saw, the sword did hold up quite well, it went into that stump with no effort and there seems to be no edge damage whatsoever... I thought that looked quite impressive, actually.
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ghost
Member
Posts: 1,282
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Post by ghost on Feb 12, 2021 4:34:36 GMT
in his update video he actually states what he did...
references forged and fire to explain that edge roll during his "deer skull adventure" shouldnt happen and concedes that he cant sharpen it out properly.
@ 5:35 you can even see where he skipped it off the belt so badly it sanded the central ridge. There is way too much belt sanding scuffs ALL over the blade.
I agree w/ Lord Newport, reviewer is a newer collector enjoying his brand new toy - likely he bent the tip and messed up so badly on a belt sander/work sharp, that he asked albion for a replacement.
very few videos of albions out there - especially being used so I quite liked the clips
on a more biased note, I actually did deposited for a viceroy in october...in large part due to these videos. (was torn with the principe until I saw Skallagrim's videos - he also clearly torqued the edge)
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Post by The Levin Lance on Feb 12, 2021 5:42:54 GMT
Seems to me that that the largest issue to the damage is actually nothing to do with heat treat but in fact due to acuteness of the edge.
Having tested knives and swords, etc. against a whole lot of targets including steel, an edge angle with ample meat behind the edge not should not fail so bad against a deer skull.
I have even tested against a 16 gauge shield top( with all evidence to prove it) and every single time the weapon took significant damage was because the edge angle was too acute.
Me and another forum member have been very busy with this kind of testing through private contact.
We have have somewhat determined( a lot of variables) that a good heat treated edge ( Mid 50's hrc) with decent enough thickness(1mm thickness and up, 1mm from edge apex will likely survive against even most iron/mild steel without much/if any damage)
You guys are welcome to try this yourself, Sharpen a piece with let's say..a 30 degree ( each side) edge angle and see the kind of abuse it will tolerate even at shaving sharp.
Albion probably just use a super acute geometry to annihilate tatami mats but I am sure their heat treat is sound.
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Post by ThomasW on Feb 12, 2021 8:14:12 GMT
www.thearma.org/essays/damagededge.htm#.YCY1PLco8zQKeep in mind that modern steels are far more consistent than steels and heat treatments of the period. Yes you could make an edge that takes that kind of abuse. But are they still comparable with the swords as tools that were used in the field? I think that it is a bit romantic to think of them as indestructible weapons. If you actually look at falchions for example, several were very thin bladed. The principe used by Skallgrim was a blade type very different than that of a falchion, but also with a thinner blade meant for cutting not really cleaving into heavily armored opponents. And in reality I don't believe we can say anything about what abuse the original edges should have been able to take (without any damage) without looking at actual originals that saw use. Swords were also in most cases not the primary weapons in later periods.
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Post by The Levin Lance on Feb 12, 2021 8:30:11 GMT
www.thearma.org/essays/damagededge.htm#.YCY1PLco8zQKeep in mind that modern steels are far more consistent than steels and heat treatments of the period. Yes you could make an edge that takes that kind of abuse. But are they still comparable with the swords as tools that were used in the field?I think that it is a bit romantic to think of them as indestructible weapons. If you actually look at falchions for example, several were very thin bladed. The principe used by Skallgrim was a blade type very different than that of a falchion, but also with a thinner blade meant for cutting not really cleaving into heavily armored opponents. And in reality I don't believe we can say anything about what abuse the original edges should have been able to take (without any damage) without looking at actual originals that saw use. Swords were also in most cases not the primary weapons in later periods. Imo yes, I mean I wouldn't exactly be surprised that they might sharpen the edge to a slightly thicker apex with the understanding and much more experience with the real thing, that this would survive better against most targets encountered on the battlefield. I mean I wouldn't be surprised that a highly experienced, highly paid smith of say, the 15th century would understand something like this and incorporate it into his pieces in a way that a modern smith concerned with tatami mat cutting may not. I mean this is all conjecture but I am just saying I wouldn't be surprised. |
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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 12, 2021 8:56:40 GMT
I think he sharpened the edge to a level of acuteness beyond what Albion does, to be used for his "cutting" activities, and brought it all on himself.
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Post by ThomasW on Feb 12, 2021 12:28:33 GMT
www.thearma.org/essays/damagededge.htm#.YCY1PLco8zQKeep in mind that modern steels are far more consistent than steels and heat treatments of the period. Yes you could make an edge that takes that kind of abuse. But are they still comparable with the swords as tools that were used in the field?I think that it is a bit romantic to think of them as indestructible weapons. If you actually look at falchions for example, several were very thin bladed. The principe used by Skallgrim was a blade type very different than that of a falchion, but also with a thinner blade meant for cutting not really cleaving into heavily armored opponents. And in reality I don't believe we can say anything about what abuse the original edges should have been able to take (without any damage) without looking at actual originals that saw use. Swords were also in most cases not the primary weapons in later periods. Imo yes, I mean I wouldn't exactly be surprised that they might sharpen the edge to a slightly thicker apex with the understanding and much more experience with the real thing, that this would survive better against most targets encountered on the battlefield. I mean I wouldn't be surprised that a highly experienced, highly paid smith of say, the 15th century would understand something like this and incorporate it into his pieces in a way that a modern smith concerned with tatami mat cutting may not. I mean this is all conjecture but I am just saying I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe I'm wrong? Could be, haven't got the experience a medieval user/maker would have. That's why it would be interesting to look at real historical pieces and accounts. We as modern non-users can say a lot of things (me included) without any real experience. Doesn't mean it's correct. |
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