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Post by Robert in California on May 18, 2020 16:19:13 GMT
Hi Folks,
.1. I don't know if this would interest anyone. .2. I am not positive it would be available (I did not ask). But I had an old Katana1980 katana with a tsuka that was decent, but too fat for my preferences. So I stripped it down to bare wood, shaved the wood some, glued the full wrap rayskin back on with Elmer's glue, let it harden and tried to do a ito re-wrap myself...with ito from Arts Feng (synthetic silk).
And did an eyesore of a re-wrap job. (you look at it and afterwards need Murine eyedrops to sooth the eye sore eyes :-))
So I asked Van Yang of Jkoo/Sinosword if he would do a re-wrap. It was not a biggie if Chinese Customs stole it, since it was still a bit on the fat and ugly side and we have top quality tsuka folks like Josh of Cottontail Customs.
So I shipped just the tsuka alone. It got there ok. They wrapped it in black cotton and did the usual nice, tight Jkoo job.
But I don't know the cost because I paid a lump sum in a multiple item order and don't have a breakdown. I could ask I suppose. But would it be cost effective? Say, ship there...maybe 20usd. Return back, about the same. Risk? (dunno, worked for me)
We know Josh of CCustoms does an outstanding job of new ito for what, about $100 plus shipping there&back. Within USA shipping, is cheaper I would think.
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Post by jayotterstein on May 18, 2020 16:57:09 GMT
Hi Folks, .1. I don't know if this would interest anyone. .2. I am not positive it would be available (I did not ask). But I had an old Katana1980 katana with a tsuka that was decent, but too fat for my preferences. So I stripped it down to bare wood, shaved the wood some, glued the full wrap rayskin back on with Elmer's glue, let it harden and tried to do a ito re-wrap myself...with ito from Arts Feng (synthetic silk). And did an eyesore of a re-wrap job. (you look at it and afterwards need Murine eyedrops to sooth the eye sore eyes :-)) So I asked Van Yang of Jkoo/Sinosword if he would do a re-wrap. It was not a biggie if Chinese Customs stole it, since it was still a bit on the fat and ugly side and we have top quality tsuka folks like Josh of Cottontail Customs. So I shipped just the tsuka alone. It got there ok. They wrapped it in black cotton and did the usual nice, tight Jkoo job. But I don't know the cost because I paid a lump sum in a multiple item order and don't have a breakdown. I could ask I suppose. But would it be cost effective? Say, ship there...maybe 20usd. Return back, about the same. Risk? (dunno, worked for me) We know Josh of CCustoms does an outstanding job of new ito for what, about $100 plus shipping there&back. Within USA shipping, is cheaper I would think. I can't speak for JKOO, but of the few people I know of (Josh included) who do Tsukamaki, costs are typically going to be higher than $100 US. Depends on the style of wrap and material as used, but $150-$250 is a general range for the folks I know of.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 19:21:38 GMT
cheap looking and poorly made tsukamaki from all the pictures I have seen from them... At least for me... Huawei tsukamaki still better even on their lower budget swords... Almost looks like a promoting brand post... Just my thought ๐
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Post by Stef on Sept 3, 2020 15:59:19 GMT
These days there are multiple options for aftermarket tsukamaki services, cottontail custom, the man in black, raizen sadamori, sergio, shadrik and a few more, the man in black offers hinerimaki starting at 60 dollars and going up depending if you want new samegawa or a new core and he is USA based, raizen sadamori is below the 200 mark EU based, there is good craftsman out there that can do the work. having said that paying for a new tsukamaki for a sub 200 sword is a slippery slope as the core often is more work to get fixed than it is worth and drives most people crazy, however I would be very cautious sending anything back to china for work if it is 20 dollar to send and 20 to return it must be at least 50 dollars to wrap and the you still get the same crap wrap you had to start with. So if you are going to spend the good part of 100 dollar to have it wrapped I would spend that money on someone that can least do a better job. Sergio Shad Raizen the man in black Cotton tail custom ![DSCF5072.jpg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/bMDWOJmbKHSHCHfouOgo.png)
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Post by jyamada on Sept 3, 2020 16:57:23 GMT
Good info from Stef above.
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Post by jyamada on Sept 3, 2020 17:29:16 GMT
cheap looking and poorly made tsukamaki from all the pictures I have seen from them... At least for me... Huawei tsukamaki still better even on their lower budget swords... Almost looks like a promoting brand post... Just my thought ๐ Agree. Sino and the other average ebay sellers have a long way to go before they can compete with Huawei in the same price ranges.
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Post by zabazagobo on Sept 7, 2020 22:08:14 GMT
These days there are multiple options for aftermarket tsukamaki services, cottontail custom, the man in black, raizen sadamori, sergio, shadrik and a few more, the man in black offers hinerimaki starting at 60 dollars and going up depending if you want new samegawa or a new core and he is USA based, raizen sadamori is below the 200 mark EU based, there is good craftsman out there that can do the work. having said that paying for a new tsukamaki for a sub 200 sword is a slippery slope as the core often is more work to get fixed than it is worth and drives most people crazy, however I would be very cautious sending anything back to china for work if it is 20 dollar to send and 20 to return it must be at least 50 dollars to wrap and the you still get the same crap wrap you had to start with. So if you are going to spend the good part of 100 dollar to have it wrapped I would spend that money on someone that can least do a better job. Sergio Shad Raizen the man in black Cotton tail custom Precisely my thoughts as well, once more- well said.
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Post by Stef on Sept 7, 2020 22:16:59 GMT
I forgot to mention cottontail custom is also under 200 dollar mark and probably better
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Post by zabazagobo on Sept 7, 2020 22:19:14 GMT
I forgot to mention cottontail custom is also under 200 dollar mark and probably better Nope, you already gave Josh a shout-out, but one more doesn't hurt. And yeah, he's really an artist with his craft.
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Post by Stef on Sept 7, 2020 22:41:19 GMT
I forgot to mention cottontail custom is also under 200 dollar mark and probably better Nope, you already gave Josh a shout-out, but one more doesn't hurt. And yeah, he's really an artist with his craft.
yeah just thought it was much higher cost , spoke recently to him and asked for prices
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Feb 28, 2022 11:28:33 GMT
If you're still looking for someone to do tsukamaki my prices are very reasonable. If you're interested you can message me directly or check out my website at www.studentofwarcustoms.com
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Post by Stef on Mar 1, 2022 9:55:11 GMT
If you're still looking for someone to do tsukamaki my prices are very reasonable. If you're interested you can message me directly or check out my website at www.studentofwarcustoms.comThis is your work? So 125usd plus 30usd for the normal work that you have to do on production tsuka excluding ito... ![rsw_1080h_810cg_truem.jpeg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/ZZhUMUpCqOTf0XokpdBD.png) charges more than you Attachments:![rsw_806h_403cg_true.jpeg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/UVZdpBolceCJErKfcwjk.png)
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Post by Robert in California on Mar 5, 2022 15:20:48 GMT
It is good to have tsuka ito re-wrap provider choices.
As for mine, Jkoo charged me $50usd. It was part of a sword order so did Jkoo give me a discount for that reason? Beats me, and prices have most likely gone up since (seems everything has gone up.....well, other than our wages). But for $50usd, Jkoo took a bare 11" wood tsuka I had bought from Katana2011 (think I got the name right). And did the following: .1. full rayskin wrap (standard grade samegawa, no emperor nodes) .2. fuchi, kashira and menuki (brass) .3. cotton ito
Tsuka ito wrap job was as tight as on my Huawei's. One flaw, the knot on one side of the kashira was done such that the diamond next to it was larger than the others.
It shipped with my sword. Also a spare saya shipped with it, so actual shipping of $20usd is my guesswork.
Good job for not much money other than the one "diamond" being larger than the others...first time I've seen that on any of my Jkoo/Sino swords.
RinC
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 9, 2022 13:11:38 GMT
If you're still looking for someone to do tsukamaki my prices are very reasonable. If you're interested you can message me directly or check out my website at www.studentofwarcustoms.comThis is your work? So 125usd plus 30usd for the normal work that you have to do on production tsuka excluding ito...ย Ya, that's my work. As for "normal work you have to do to a production tsuka" if you're talking about thinning tsuka down that's a matter of opinion. There's plenty of people including myself who prefer a thicker tsuka. I've even had people request a wrap to make the tsuka thicker, not everyone likes a thin tsuka. They're fine for some people but if you have big hands or grip problems than thin tsuka aren't great.
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Post by Stef on Mar 9, 2022 20:33:29 GMT
Ya, that's my work. As for "normal work you have to do to a production tsuka" if you're talking about thinning tsuka down that's a matter of opinion. There's plenty of people including myself who prefer a thicker tsuka. I've even had people request a wrap to make the tsuka thicker, not everyone likes a thin tsuka. They're fine for some people but if you have big hands or grip problems than thin tsuka aren't great. Okey that's your work presented on your website.. Normal work on a production tsuka isn't allways about making her more slim (fittings play a huge role on the tsuka shape), you have transitions, samegawa placement, tsukamaki have rules,etc etc etc I could go on with this but do your own research and make your own conclusions RULES. yes
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Post by JH Lee on Mar 9, 2022 21:41:47 GMT
Personally, I don't begrudge anyone from enjoying and learning from this hobby. Obviously, it's not anyone's place to criticize that. But when a relatively unskilled individual starts charging money for their work, it is sure to raise more than a few eyebrows. A good argument could be made that such lowers the bar in terms of the quality that the community should come to expect from commission work (never mind the art/culture itself). Another good argument could be that it distracts/takes away paying customers from those more deserving/qualified.
Adam, I hope you won't take any of that as an attack on you. I actually enjoy seeing you post your progress. At the same time, since you offered them for public viewing, it's only fair that you get both positive and negative feedback; among which is the opinion that you are not yet ready to offer your work for money.
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Post by Stef on Mar 9, 2022 21:45:05 GMT
Stef, don't you think it might be more worthwhile and constructive to actually provide Adam with specific points as to which he can improve, rather than passive-aggressively badgering him through multiple threads? This has been tried but he isn't interested in improving his craft, nor does he take advice well or constructive criticism. I fear he is only interested in doing what he does how he does it and sees nothing wrong with it. But I do wholeheartedly understand your point, and it is a fair point. just know many have tried
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steveboy
Member
Measure twice, cut once.
Posts: 372
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Post by steveboy on Mar 9, 2022 22:40:02 GMT
When I used to teach writing, on the first night of class I would tell students that we're here to talk about craft, because there are objective, concrete criteria for craft, and learning & comparing them improves your craft -- even if you decide to disregard some of them. You can argue about Art till the cows come home, but capable craftsmanship is there or it ain't. "I don't like it" is a perfectly valid opinion, but it has nothing to do with a thing's quality. I don't like licorice. But if I insist that licorice is bad, my opinion is completely weightless unless somehow I show you where licorice falls short on standards of craft, quality, detail, etc. By the same token, saying "I like it" is nice, but ultimately unhelpful, since it doesn't say why I like it. What's good about it, where's the display of craft, attention, detail, unique expression? Craft and critical thinking have this in common. Just saying that something is incredible, or that it sucks, without saying why that's so, gives no assurance that you're qualified to make either statement. Some people have used criticism of Adam to point out details that constitute quality tsuka-maki. Adam has pointed out options he tries to bring to the table. I've enjoyed those posts, and learned from them.
FWIW.
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 9, 2022 22:40:53 GMT
Stef, don't you think it might be more worthwhile and constructive to actually provide Adam with specific points as to which he can improve, rather than passive-aggressively badgering him through multiple threads? This has been tried but he isn't interested in improving his craft, nor does he take advice well or constructive criticism. I fear he is only interested in doing what he does how he does it and sees nothing wrong with it.ย But I do wholeheartedly understand your point, and it is a fair point. just know many have triedย I don't think you realize how wrong you are honestly and I'm not saying this to be aggressive at all. You judge me from when I have numerous people attack and insult my work and that's what you base me off of. Maybe I'm wrong but I think you believe the traditional way is the only way and the golden standard performance wise. Don't get me wrong certain things should never be changed from the traditional method (such as when working on a nihonto or carving the interior of a tsuka) but epoxy vs rice glue for example I don't think there is a single issue using epoxy on end knots and it's undeniable that epoxy is far supior to rice glue and more than likely if craftsmen of old had access to modern glues for example they more than likely would have used that over making glue out of rice. What I do I base off of over a decade worth of formal study of Japanese swordsmanship and actually using swords in class for over an hour at a time. When I make a decision on something I'm doing to a sword it's based of of that, not "hmm, I wonder how I can screw this up or get attention from people online.". Hope this cleared things up but if not let me ask you something, how do you expect me to be open to what you have to say when every time you and your friends get a chance you attack or make cheap shots at my work? Do you really expect someone to be open to constructive criticism from people who behave that way?
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 9, 2022 22:50:36 GMT
Personally, I don't begrudge anyone from enjoying and learning from this hobby. Obviously, it's not anyone's place to criticize that. But when a relatively unskilled individual starts charging money for their work, it is sure to raise more than a few eyebrows. A good argument could be made that such lowers the bar in terms of the quality that the community should come to expect from commission work (never mind the art/culture itself). Another good argument could be that it distracts/takes away paying customers from those more deserving/qualified. Adam, I hope you won't take any of that as an attack on you. I actually enjoy seeing you post your progress. At the same time, since you offered them for public viewing, it's only fair that you get both positive and negative feedback; among which is the opinion that you are not yet ready to offer your work for money. I have no problem at all with feedback, it's how we improve especially learning in the USA where it's not exactly easy to find a tsukamaki master to learn from. However I don't think feedback that amounts to "your work looks horrible", "how dare you use epoxy instead of rice glue to finish a tsukamaki! Your work is crap because you decide to modernize!" or personal attacks are helpful criticism, that's just attacks and doesn't help anyone. If anyone is willing to give actual helpful criticism than I'm willing to take it. I'm trying to build a business and constantly trying to improve. Not saying you've personally given me that kind of feedback but that's the feedback I've gotten from numerous people that for the sake of keeping the peace I won't use their names. Keep in mind I was oncd attacked on a fb page because I had the audacity to show a steel kurigata I made and I committed the ultimate sin of not being Japanese ๐.
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